Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 313. (Read 58977 times)

I am interested in knowing what would people who think that the US should send ships or troops to Ukraine think that could happen in that case? I certainly have my own theory.

For those who think that Trump would do so, I am interested in knowing what would they think Trump would do, what would tweet and what consequences do they think that would result. (e.g. nuclear war, Putin cancelling the war impressed by Trumps hairstyle, Putin forgetting about the war and simply tweeting back until he chokes....)


Firstly, there is and there will be abundant "Input" from NATO. Ukraine is not short on experienced soldiers with the ability and the willingness to fight and there is no legal impediment for any neutral country (e.g. NATO countries) to sell weapons (or give then away) to Ukraine's army.

Ukraine is not wining Putin's war in the sense of preserving the territory or entering Russia to decapitate their government. How does an Ukrainian "victory" look like (sorry for being brutally honest):

- Impossibility of Putin preserving his army as it is today. Loosing so much material and troops that it does not recover ever again and, eventually, looses its stance in the world (and perhaps Putin is "retired").
- Getting into a stalemate that Putin simply cannot afford in terms of reputation and in terms of the economy.
- For a total victory, after a massive loss of Russian lives and an economic meltdown, Putin is somehow "retired" by a military junta.

Sadly, none of this happens with Ukraine still being a place to live, nor without anger and hate for generations, nor without an economic shock across the world. The alternative is reaching an agreement. Unfortunately, that cannot be done before a war takes place because it has been proven that giving away territory or accepting aggressions to have peace (e.g. Austria with Hitler) does not work.

Ukraine has no option but to fight and never give up or accept that they will be ruled by Putin - who obviously has zero regard for their future.

U.S. officials believe Kyiv will fall in 4-6 weeks, with Russia/Ukraine war lasting over a decade.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/russia-ukraine-news-kyiv-war-putin-invasion-talks-today/#post-update-8de46653

With the amount of Ukrainian propaganda floating around, there is this notion that Ukraine is winning this war or even has the potential to win this war. It simply is not true. The Russian military has too many resources to throw away and the economic ramifications does not effect Putin directly. His fragile ego will put his political ambitions over his constituency. So without any input from NATO, this is prolonged losing battle for Ukraine. It seems like Russia has been targeting civilian areas over the last few days, and there are some reports that it might ramp up within the coming weeks. A 10-20 year time line sounds reasonable, and at the end Ukraine might end up being a wasteland like Afghanistan.

These odd-looking cannonballs are not missiles as you claim. Although I'm not sure what kind of guidance system they use, which could explain why they fall on playgrounds and apartment buildings.

(I bet that the Russian media will claim either that the Ukrainians put them there or that the photos are fake.)

I know it sounds ridiculously premature, but I think the only thing worse than full defeat and occupation of Ukraine would be if Ukrainians win and go on a vengeful rampage into Russia, shooting retreating Russian soldiers in the back. Fingers crossed that this ends at Ukraine's borders, sooner rather than later.


I think a coup is getting more and more tempting for some of Putin's generals and/or oligarchs. Imagine the personal wealth and worldwide fame one could reap from this. Whoever knocks Putin off would be a hero in the West, and could get away with many things that would otherwise be heavily frowned up. Russian public opinion could be swayed too, what with the massive propaganda machine.

So Ukrainians should go and get Smolensk and de-Putinify the area, lol?

This is how ridiculous Putin's claims are.  What he did was to solidify Ukrainians' resolve to resist Russia, all Ukrainians regardless of their linguistic abilities, Gods they believe in, or political spectrum they belong to.

Imagine if France had a dictator (I know, I heard it), and tomorrow he attacks Canada to get the Quebec province back.  
Quebecers and the rest of Canada will say: "Va te faire foutre!".  This is exactly what Ukrainians are saying to Putin, "Idi ty na hooy, blat"

This is how wrong Putin is about Ukraine. Too bad he will find it out the hard way.

You forgot the obvious


What the Media Is HIDING About Ukraine/Russia
https://rumble.com/vw4t0e-what-the-media-is-hiding-about-ukrainerussia.html


Correct me if i wrong, but is't Russia the only gateway to the international spacestation and NASA / ESA lost access to it, or pay extra ?

Yes, the worst thing you can do to someone who has nuclear weapons is to put them in a situation where they have nothing left to lose. I'm sure a major reason for the sanctions on Putin-associates is to destabilise his allies sufficiently for them to want to remove him. It's difficult to imagine him backing down voluntarily or due to Western pressure.

As for him winning Ukraine, there's a huge difference between taking control and holding control. He can certainly capture the key cities and assume command of the country, but the longer this goes on and the bloodier it gets, the more the Ukranians unite against the common foe. I read an interesting article by Yuval Noah Harari (author of the excellent 'Sapiens') the other day, where he argues that by effectively uniting Ukraine against him, Putin is ensuring that he can never retain control of the country in the longer-term.

While nothing is impossible there are a few reasons why I think that is not likely possibility as of now:

- Insofar as military uses, there are conventional fuel-air bombs that can do a small Nuke's job leaving no radiation.. nor anything else.

- Nuclear weapons are to dissuade, not to be used. He who fires a Nuke has the certainty that he will be equally fired upon. There is no way that US, UK or France can ignore a nuclear strike without responding as this would void the nuclear deterrent.  Getting hit by a Nuke on your territory is likely to end with you being assassinated by your own people.

- It is extremely difficult to de-escalate after a nuclear attack. Relations may be broken for decades, economy would collapse (Putin's army is costly for a small PIB like Russia's)

- Putin is not mad in the usual sense, he understand the consequences of his actions. On Ukraine, I think he has miscalculated the costs and the international reaction, but it was not madness, he simply based his strategy on a divided and slow Europe, a nearly unconditional support from China and a calculated non-intervention by the US.

What is an scenario in which Putin would use a Nuke:

- Direct intervention of NATO troops (e.g. the Black Sea)
- Threat of other using Nukes.
- The war goes so wrong that he is at serious personal risk.
- NATO setting-up Nukes in the Baltic republics.

Overall, once more Europe has a War, we all loose and US (and this time also China) come out stronger.

Imagine this scenario: Putins nukes an Ukranian city. US states that they will nuke a Belorussian city in 24 hours. Can you imagine the chaos?

On Putin having some personal gain... well I do not think that Ukraine will recover the Donbas in any case, so Putin can sell it as a victory.



Yes! that's it!, here's my proposal:

Russian will rename to their old name "Russians of Kiev", Turkey will become the Ottoman Empire or even better, Byzantium and go back to from naming Istanbul to Constantinople. We will look for people to be the new Mongols and threaten Europe (they did a much better job than Putin) and we will mix that with the Brigands, Goths, Celtic tribes, Normans, the Teutonic Order... we can even have a Crusade! Oh, I forgot... we have to revive the Cossack cavalry or Europe would just not be the same.

Oh Lord Wellington where are thou!

I am such a diplomacy genius... Putin, are you there!?

Nobody believed him that he would attack Ukraine and bombard it with missiles. Now no one wants to believe that he can use nuclear weapons, but such a possibility cannot be ruled out, we see that he is capable of anything, especially now when he is cornered. It’s scary to even think that this could happen, I do not know where it will be possible to run from such a catastrophe. I really hope that this will not happen and I will be able to live on my free land.

At least 136 people, including 13 children, have been killed in Ukraine since Thursday, February 24, the UN said Tuesday. Day 6 of the conflict, how does that compare with other operations with bombings?

Nothing is impossible with this guy.  Either way, he will have to kill millions of Ukrainian citizens to accomplish his
dream of de-Nazification.  Nuclear bombs or not.

I am afraid we all will be joining this war, no matter what.  Even countries that are still supporting this mad man.

The US is making a critical strategic mistake by not establishing the no-fly zone over Ukraine.  

They can still prevent this potential genocide.  They will enter the war when millions of innocent people die.

The most upsetting thing about this whole ordeal is that Putin told the whole world what he is going to do, but nobody believes him.

If he is successful with Ukraine, and NATO does nothing, he will go after Kazakhstan and Georgia.

Annexation of Belarus is a given.

Since Putin is apparently now a crazy old man with a Napoleon complex, this horrifying thought occurred to me: If Ukraine resists for many weeks, why wouldn't Putin use a nuclear weapon against them? It'd be like the situation with Japan and the US in WWII: Putin can nuke a couple of Ukrainian cities (probably in the western half) and say, "Surrender unconditionally or I'll nuke a couple more." And he could just continue nuking cities until Ukraine capitulated. NATO wouldn't respond with direct military action, Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons of its own, and sanctions are already nearly maxed out. I don't see how Putin has much to lose with this strategy (except that it might horrify his direct subordinates or population enough for them to oust him), and it's a sure-fire way to win Ukraine.

You might think that Putin wouldn't want to get a radioactive wasteland as a prize, but that'd be a misunderstanding of the effects of nuclear weapons. Using appropriately-sized nukes, Putin could destroy dozens of cities without making Ukraine generally uninhabitable. The radioactive fallout would cause serious issues (worse in Ukraine and extending worldwide), but it wouldn't kill that many people in most areas, and it would decay in weeks.

To try to prevent this, the West urgently needs to find some way of giving Putin some sort of hope that he personally can improve his situation without conquering Ukraine. As things stand now, there seems to be zero hope of the sanctions ever being lifted as long as Putin is alive, so Putin sees that his only two options are to give up and become an iron-fisted dictator of a poor country, like North Korea, or continue pursuing his dream of restoring the Russian empire at all costs. The West might offer Russia a series of steps that would lead to progressively removing the sanctions, and it might even be worth offering Putin safe personal exile (like Napoleon) so he can retire in peace. He probably wouldn't take a quiet retirement, but it doesn't hurt to offer it.

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If you're within about 250km of Ukraine, it'd be a good idea to:
 - Put important files onto optical media, since a nuclear EMP may destroy hard drives and SSDs.
 - Buy potassium iodide tablets. In case of nuclear fallout, adults take 130mg/day. This will help your long-term survival, but will absolutely not make you immune to radiation.
 - If possible, prepare 2 weeks of food and water in case you have to shelter from fallout. An appropriate shelter will put as much matter between you and the outside world as possible, without any direct airflow. Air filtration isn't necessary, but air should not be able to flow freely in from the outside. Fallout will especially accumulate on the ground outside and on roofs, so you want your shelter to be far from those. A basement is good if it's deep enough, but a shallow basement isn't ideal because you're too close to the ground outside. A subway would probably have too much air flowing from outside. The middle floors of a very tall building can be used, staying as far as possible from the exterior walls.

I would suggest 15th century, because it gets better. I found evidence that Ukraine is actually ancient NATO land:

So Turkey should be invading Bulgaria and Crimea, lol.

Complete madness.  I wish we had a time machine so that we could send all these autocrats to the 11th century where they belong.

Ancient Kievan lands... 1000 years ago, since before Moscow even existed.

I hope you understand how crazy Putin's idea of reuniting the Russian people is.

If you follow this logic, Ukraine should be bombing Moscow right now, and annexing Russia because there are millions of Ukrainians in Russia.

The whole thing is just mad.  Killing Russians to reunite Russians.

He would make more sense, if he was honest with the world and say, I want the Ukrainian territories.  This talk about the genocide of Russians by the Nazi regime, or "denazification" just confirms that he has lost touch with reality.

So it's a good thing that NATO membership doesn't allow that? Is that your point?

I understand how you feel, so just posting facts from wiki without comments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia

Any country that boarders a current nuclear power that decides to join a pact which would allow 3rd country to put its nukes on that country's land, would most definitely move the doomsday clock hands in the wrong direction. And that's for the better, this is not a precedent that you want to set. It would allow poor countries to offer their land to (possible) nukes for the right incentives. How would you feel about Mexico joining a pact with Russia for free oil that would allow Russian nukes on Mexico/US border? Or how much do you think would China need to offer to Albania for the rights to place Chinese nukes on Albanian soil?*

*Of course it wouldn't just be for the nukes. It'd be packed in a nice pact with other very lucrative trade deals, single currency, and lending terms, with an option for nukes, so that country could prosper.

Putin has lost his mind.  The only thing he can think of is "denazification, denazification, denazification, denazification,..."

Whatever that means. I am afraid he really means the extermination of Ukrainians.

The tragedy and the scary part is that there are a lot of people in Russia who agree with him.

Was this 6-year old girl a Nazi?
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/28/europe/gallery/ukraine-girl-killed/index.html