Good luck to you Sir!
If I were you I'd change the thread title though... I was pretty sure I was clicking on yet another Pirate Piss Take thread.
I also second the idea of developing a bitcoin payment system for dispensaries, and would be keen to help anyone who takes up the challenge. Fuck the banks and their hypocrisy. They're happy to facilitate all sorts of morally dubious ventures, yet helping the sick is too much for them?
Topic: . - page 4. (Read 7149 times)
The bigger picture*
Rather then investing in start up dispensary's (we already got a ton, more then Starbucks)
; dispensary's have the problem of not being allowed banking services.
accepting Credit card's, checking and saving accountants is very hard and almost all major banks refuse;
Dispensary's are left holding large amounts of cash and during raids they take big hits.
I think the real opportunity is to offer a completely cashless system. The only risk is lost product.
Using bitcoins would also give the customers an added layer of Anonymity then debit/credit as well.
***update Just got informed any FDIC bank is now officaily barred from doing business with dispensary's in Colorado
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/banks_refusing_to_deal_with_medical_marijuana_disp.php
http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_19016660
Rather then investing in start up dispensary's (we already got a ton, more then Starbucks)
; dispensary's have the problem of not being allowed banking services.
accepting Credit card's, checking and saving accountants is very hard and almost all major banks refuse;
Dispensary's are left holding large amounts of cash and during raids they take big hits.
I think the real opportunity is to offer a completely cashless system. The only risk is lost product.
Using bitcoins would also give the customers an added layer of Anonymity then debit/credit as well.
***update Just got informed any FDIC bank is now officaily barred from doing business with dispensary's in Colorado
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/banks_refusing_to_deal_with_medical_marijuana_disp.php
http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_19016660
scammer!!!
This seems to be all you have to say
I don't think there is any evidence that the OP is a scammer, whether investing in his/her operation is legal is another story.
CR
It is interesting that CO allows for-profit dispensaries. (California clearly does not)
It is not encouraging to look at prices in California. As legality increases, price decreases. Ganja grown in CA for consumption in CA brings $100/oz ($1600/lb). The further east its brought (illegally) the higher price it commands, up to $5600 on the east coast US.
Costs to actually grow the herb are truly around $160/lb. Before real estate costs (rentals or purchases). (depends on outdoor vs. indoor, and actual goals .
securities sold in exchange for BTC are potentially regulated by the SEC, but no more so than any other security being traded on GLBSE or MPEx or Cryptostocks right now.
GLBSE has already listed and subsequently delisted POT2PEER. This may not be something you can push past Nefario. With a proper prospectus, MPEx might list it - they're more underground than GLBSE, but have apparently more stringent listing requirements. I personally prefer to trade on MPEx - it is considerably more secure.
I would consider investing, but I would need to see a full prospectus from your organization. The general gist of a plan set forth is interesting, but insufficient. Please provide full financial projections - spreadsheets are important, words are largely not.
It is not encouraging to look at prices in California. As legality increases, price decreases. Ganja grown in CA for consumption in CA brings $100/oz ($1600/lb). The further east its brought (illegally) the higher price it commands, up to $5600 on the east coast US.
Costs to actually grow the herb are truly around $160/lb. Before real estate costs (rentals or purchases). (depends on outdoor vs. indoor, and actual goals .
securities sold in exchange for BTC are potentially regulated by the SEC, but no more so than any other security being traded on GLBSE or MPEx or Cryptostocks right now.
GLBSE has already listed and subsequently delisted POT2PEER. This may not be something you can push past Nefario. With a proper prospectus, MPEx might list it - they're more underground than GLBSE, but have apparently more stringent listing requirements. I personally prefer to trade on MPEx - it is considerably more secure.
I would consider investing, but I would need to see a full prospectus from your organization. The general gist of a plan set forth is interesting, but insufficient. Please provide full financial projections - spreadsheets are important, words are largely not.
The SEC is in charge of managing securities and public offerings but there has not yet been any case law established calling bitcoins money or currency that I am aware of, else GLBSE could not operate at all within the US. I also am not aware of any instance where a holder of bitcoins has been forced to pay taxes on them, are you?
http://www.lextechnologiae.com/2011/06/26/why-bitcoin-isnt-a-security-under-federal-securities-law/
http://www.lextechnologiae.com/2011/06/26/why-bitcoin-isnt-a-security-under-federal-securities-law/
Well, Bitcoin is not a security, but would a security sold in exchange for bitcoin not fall under the jurisdiction of the SEC? I'm not sure.
I don't know if anyone has specifically been caught evading taxes on bitcoins, but I do know that according to the income tax rules, any financial transaction, even if it is barter, is a taxable event.
If GLBSE would allow it we'd open it up to the general public. If we are forced to accept only US dollars than the SEC will prevent us from dealing with non-accredited investors. (An accredited investor is a person who makes more than $250k per year defined by the SEC under Rule D of 1933). This is the same hurdle every entrepreneur has, federal law says very clearly that you are only allowed to borrow money from rich people. (Until they enact the JOBS Act which overturns 80 years of law).
Excellent. Thank you for clearing that up. I personally think it would be great if this were done through GLBSE. You are sure though, that the SEC will not prevent you from dealing with non-accredited investors if you receive loans in denominations other than USD? That would seem surprising to me based on my knowledge of how the government treats everything from barter to foreign currencies, at least for tax purposes.
I just wanted to point this out in case anyone else missed it on first read as I did.
Viceroy, are there legal or economic reasons for having a small number of very large lenders rather than a large number of small lenders? You might successfully use GLBSE in the former case, but I think you'd have a much higher chance of success with the latter.
We are seeking 1-7 individuals to lend $50,000-$350,000 at an interest rate of 20%.
...
If you are interested in lending $50,000US or more to this project and earning a 20% return contact me right away.
...
If you are interested in lending $50,000US or more to this project and earning a 20% return contact me right away.
Viceroy, are there legal or economic reasons for having a small number of very large lenders rather than a large number of small lenders? You might successfully use GLBSE in the former case, but I think you'd have a much higher chance of success with the latter.
It's already been discussed and Nefario (the guy who runs glbse) has said he won't allow it. It's on these forums. But it can't hurt to send glbse support an email asking them again.
Here's an example
Thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-n33d-w33d-mmj-growing-op-85378
Post from glbse operator:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.951891
Here's an example
Thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-n33d-w33d-mmj-growing-op-85378
Post from glbse operator:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.951891
wasn't that gentleman looking to run an illegal grow op?
Though I cannot disagree on asking Nef first on this idea..
He was in a legal state as well. No mention of it being illegal. Anyway the concerns I've brought up are very real. California has shown us this with dispensary raids and the like. It's very irresponsible to solicit loans or deposits which could likely land "investors" in jail on conspiracy charges or worse. It's your responsibility to check things over with an actual lawyer before risking others freedoms based off what you "think" Don't mean to be harsh or shit on your thread but this is dangerous territory for investors and I feel you don't really recognize the entire situation. I'm a big supporter of MMJ. If people were to use tor/gpg/bitcoin there's very small chance of getting caught or implicated. Doing this in public as it stands is very foolish though.
It's already been discussed and Nefario (the guy who runs glbse) has said he won't allow it. It's on these forums. But it can't hurt to send glbse support an email asking them again.
Here's an example
Thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-n33d-w33d-mmj-growing-op-85378
Post from glbse operator:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.951891
Here's an example
Thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-n33d-w33d-mmj-growing-op-85378
Post from glbse operator:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.951891
Thanks, I was not aware of this.
It's already been discussed and Nefario (the guy who runs glbse) has said he won't allow it. It's on these forums. But it can't hurt to send glbse support an email asking them again.
Here's an example
Thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-n33d-w33d-mmj-growing-op-85378
Post from glbse operator:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.951891
Here's an example
Thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/glbse-n33d-w33d-mmj-growing-op-85378
Post from glbse operator:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.951891
I just read your OP more carefully and I now realize that I will unfortunately be unable to participate. I didn't realize you were looking to secure large loans from only a few individuals and that you would be legally unable to offer equity investments to non-Colorado residents. I was thinking you could use GLBSE to issue shares and pay dividends, but you could still use it to issue a bond which you could buy back later. There are others more familiar with the use of GLBSE than myself that could help you with that. I would maybe check in the Securities subforum.
Haha, true enough.
We are not trying to feed the world but instead trying to turn a large profit based on black-market pricing before prohibition ends.
Haha, true enough.
You need Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium and unfortunately the main source of those is chemical companies. The truth is the plant doesn't care if the Nitrogen you use is from Shell Oil or some other major company, Nitrogen is Nitrogen is Nitrogen and most of it comes from petroleum plants. It is much easier to use 'organic' fertilizer in soil rather than in our water based medium.
What about the use of Aquaponics? Granted, it may not be feasible for the type of plants your growing, nor for as large an operation. I find it fascinating though.
Don't bother. Regardless of your state laws cannabis is still federally illegal. GLBSE wouldn't let you list there. They'd get shit on by FBI/DEA or other federal agents.
From GLBSE's terms of service:
Quote
4. It is not the Exchange's responsibility to ensure that those trading, listing, or issuing assets on the Exchange are operating according to any kind of rules, regulations, laws, or standards those trading, listing, or issuing assets on the Exchange are subject to in any jurisdiction, beyond these terms of service.
You realize that GLBSE is already an unlicensed security, bond, and stock market, right? I don't think they care too much about complying with any particular nation's laws. I find this to be a huge benefit.
Have you considered using GLBSE for this fundraising operation? I would be hesitant to just send you some bitcoins, but if you were verified on GLBSE and offered an IPO I would definitely invest.
If not GLBSE, what methods do you propose to protect your investors, both from potential fraud or from legal liabilities?
If not GLBSE, what methods do you propose to protect your investors, both from potential fraud or from legal liabilities?
I am more than happy to accept help from anyone in pitching through GLBSE as I have not yet done that. I will absolutely look at GLBSE right now.
Don't bother. Regardless of your state laws cannabis is still federally illegal. GLBSE wouldn't let you list there. They'd get shit on by FBI/DEA or other federal agents.
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