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hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 20, 2015, 04:12:44 AM
You do know that is a python script, run at compile time to dynamically generate the list from tor? Unless you are recompiling bitcoin binaries ( on your live server!!) every time you start your node, then this is not an issue. If tor does indeed log ip addresses ( which makes the whole thing pointless anyway) then they are only logging the address of the machine that compiled the code. In most (intelligent) cases that will not be the one running the node. In most cases you will be downloading binaries.

Do I get my candy now?
Yes yes, you get candy!

Meanwhile a new commit will come up to "improve anti-ddos" which will move that stuff directly in the bitcoin binary. Gavin would ACK Mike's pull request and it's done!


Thanks!  Grin

It would be a pointless way to do it - if it was that urgent to update exit nodes then you would just use a relay service. That way 'they' (as in gubmint) could only track the relay.

sr. member
Activity: 471
Merit: 250
BTC trader
August 20, 2015, 03:59:27 AM
You do know that is a python script, run at compile time to dynamically generate the list from tor? Unless you are recompiling bitcoin binaries ( on your live server!!) every time you start your node, then this is not an issue. If tor does indeed log ip addresses ( which makes the whole thing pointless anyway) then they are only logging the address of the machine that compiled the code. In most (intelligent) cases that will not be the one running the node. In most cases you will be downloading binaries.

Do I get my candy now?
Yes yes, you get candy!

Meanwhile a new commit will come up to "improve anti-ddos" which will move that stuff directly in the bitcoin binary. Gavin would ACK Mike's pull request and it's done!
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 20, 2015, 03:49:21 AM
I am amased of the army of XT shill trolls in this thread trying to deny the obvious


Nobody is denying anything. Its been explained. If you cant grasp what it does and how it works then nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Do you need to call someone a shill troll for merely pointing that out? Or is there really only one side to this debate  Huh

Probably someone is shouting in the phone:
"Bring in more trolls! Now! They found out the candy!"

The following is so darn hard to understand, I'm so confused!  Grin

IMO, the problem is here:



Having every single bitcoin XT client ping torproject.org (which is 100% definitely logging our IPs) doesn't sit right with me, considering the project is openly funded by the DOD/govt.







Code referenced:

https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/2b918beb7e822fdc4450165e2a0162a75b5160ff/contrib/torips/gen-tor-ips.py

https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/master/src/ipgroups.cpp#L172


You do know that is a python script, run at compile time to dynamically generate the list from tor? Unless you are recompiling bitcoin binaries ( on your live server!!) every time you start your node, then this is not an issue. If tor does indeed log ip addresses ( which makes the whole thing pointless anyway) then they are only logging the address of the machine that compiled the code. In most (intelligent) cases that will not be the one running the node. In most cases you will be downloading binaries.

Do I get my candy now?
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1318
Technical Analyst/Trader
August 20, 2015, 03:20:00 AM
Andreas Antonopoulous on blockchain size:

That conversation begins at the 30 minute and 37 second mark:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jqpKEHYGE0
sr. member
Activity: 471
Merit: 250
BTC trader
August 20, 2015, 03:12:06 AM
I am amased of the army of XT shill trolls in this thread trying to deny the obvious


Nobody is denying anything. Its been explained. If you cant grasp what it does and how it works then nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Do you need to call someone a shill troll for merely pointing that out? Or is there really only one side to this debate  Huh

Probably someone is shouting in the phone:
"Bring in more trolls! Now! They found out the candy!"

The following is so darn hard to understand, I'm so confused!  Grin

IMO, the problem is here:



Having every single bitcoin XT client ping torproject.org (which is 100% definitely logging our IPs) doesn't sit right with me, considering the project is openly funded by the DOD/govt.

It even gives a nice "Bitcoin XT" useragent to identify us properly  Smiley




To be fair, this is normal application behavior by regular standards, but it's not in Bitcoin core.



Code referenced:

https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/2b918beb7e822fdc4450165e2a0162a75b5160ff/contrib/torips/gen-tor-ips.py

https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/master/src/ipgroups.cpp#L172
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
August 20, 2015, 03:08:47 AM
Look closely, do you see there is anything missing in yours?
Thank you, I did miss that part yeah. Here it is:
Code:
    //! Whether this peer should be disconnected and banned (unless whitelisted).
    bool fShouldBan;
Source: https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/master/src/main.cpp
Lines: 223 and 224

Just because it isn't in the linked commit, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It exists in the master branch and the latest release.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 20, 2015, 03:02:18 AM
The code isn't hard to find at all and clearly exist, so please stop saying that it doesn't.

Code:
#ifndef BITCOIN_CIPGROUPS_H
#define BITCOIN_CIPGROUPS_H

#include "netbase.h"

class CScheduler;

// A group of logically related IP addresses. Useful for banning or deprioritising
// sources of abusive traffic/DoS attacks.
struct CIPGroupData {
    std::string name;
    // A priority score indicates how important this group of IP addresses is to this node.
    // Importance determines which group wins when the node is out of resources. Any IP
    // that is not in a group gets a default priority of zero. Therefore, groups with a priority
    // of less than zero will be ignored or disconnected in order to make room for ungrouped
    // IPs, and groups with a higher priority will be serviced before ungrouped IPs.
    int priority;

    CIPGroupData() : priority(0) {}
};
Source: https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/commit/73c9efe74c5cc8faea9c2b2c785a2f5b68aa4c23
File: src/ipgroups.h
Lines: 5 to 24.

It can be found in the master and the latest release of Bitcoin XT:
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/master/src/ipgroups.h
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/0.11A/src/ipgroups.h

What? Are you talking about this ?

It would be such a damning move to insert such tracking code without telling anyone, that I don't think they'd do it. It's not like every bitcoiner is a total noob especially the hackers and thieves.

And I'm not even totally against IP blocking, maybe, finally some recourse for victims of theft, but it does go against one of the fundamental principals of BTC so it would need to get a huge concensus first
What tracking? Please let me know... If you are talking about leaking IP when running proxy and TOR that was in proposed QT(core) code but not in XT.

And there is no IP blocking. To this moment none pointed to the code that do that.

Also I'm interested how IP blocking will help victims of theft...
Why don't you read the code instead of post after post of misinformation? It clearly bans by IP, that isn't even in question.
Yes I did and there is no banning. But you can't point to something that is not there so I can't help you. But you can say where the code is doing that and I will explain to you why you are wrong...
// A group of logically related IP addresses. Useful for banning or deprioritising
// sources of abusive traffic/DoS attacks.
struct CIPGroupData {
    std::string name;
    // A priority score indicates how important this group of IP addresses is to this node.
    // Importance determines which group wins when the node is out of resources. Any IP
    // that is not in a group gets a default priority of zero. Therefore, groups with a priority
    // of less than zero will be ignored or disconnected in order to make room for ungrouped
    // IPs, and groups with a higher priority will be serviced before ungrouped IPs.
    int priority;

//! Whether this peer should be disconnected and banned (unless whitelisted).
    bool fShouldBan;

That is just one segment describing that section of code, there are literally thousands of lines of code that deal with banning.
You are a liar.

Look closely, do you see there is anything missing in yours?

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 20, 2015, 02:53:36 AM

It explicitly says it disconnects addresses with low to negative priority.

This would be the first time in history that anyone was blacklisted from using Bitcoin if XT forks, it's a big deal and against the fundamental reasons Bitcoin is used.

Thanks for this...it is a definite eye-opener! Shocked

It sure was. >How one person can so misinterpret a few lines of code so badly is beyond most. Especially when he freely admits he doesn't understand the code and how tor peers work. Yet when propeller heads from both sides explain it, he persists.


A few lines?! There's tens of thousands of lines of code for this.

Do you how cvs diff works?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 20, 2015, 02:38:25 AM
I am amased of the army of XT shill trolls in this thread trying to deny the obvious


Nobody is denying anything. Its been explained. If you cant grasp what it does and how it works then nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Do you need to call someone a shill troll for merely pointing that out? Or is there really only one side to this debate  Huh
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 20, 2015, 02:31:42 AM


No, it's political because Gavin went off on his own and tried to fork bitcoin when core devs didn't take to his ideas, polarizing the community. And because certain parties sought to force the debate by spamming the blockchain; investors, speculators and the media are drawing a connection between this XT drama and the return to a bear market. It's political because Gavin's approach is "my way or the highway" when many do not support his ideas.

Hence you making hundreds of posts, doing very little but making baseless ad hominems and insulting people left and right, while not showing any evidence whatsoever that you "understand the topic better than" anyone. You simply keep repeating that you do. I didn't take this "FUD" without a grain of salt, and I was merely questioning the way it was carried out, and whether some of the changes were necessary given the contentious nature of this debate. Many of the points I was raising -- which you have not addressed -- do not require a technical understanding, so that point is moot anyway. And don't get it twisted; I wasn't calling anyone in here a shill but you.

It shouldn't be political, but it clearly is. But what it should never be is personal. Its software - we will work it out.

sr. member
Activity: 471
Merit: 250
BTC trader
August 20, 2015, 02:28:05 AM
I am amased of the army of XT shill trolls in this thread trying to deny the obvious.  Shocked . But this IP/Tor blacklisting and connecting to torproject with "Bitcoin XT" user agent stinks so bad that even a 100 troll army can't cover it up.   Cheesy

Anyway, the block size increase is not so urgently required as the XT supporters make you think. We can go on for a couple of years until consensus is reached in Bitcoin Core. But this is a debate for another thread.

OMG urgent problem! here is the solution! don't mind the privacy killing code, it's for your own protection and you can disable it if you want  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista
August 20, 2015, 02:26:25 AM

It explicitly says it disconnects addresses with low to negative priority.

This would be the first time in history that anyone was blacklisted from using Bitcoin if XT forks, it's a big deal and against the fundamental reasons Bitcoin is used.

Thanks for this...it is a definite eye-opener! Shocked

It sure was. >How one person can so misinterpret a few lines of code so badly is beyond most. Especially when he freely admits he doesn't understand the code and how tor peers work. Yet when propeller heads from both sides explain it, he persists.

copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
August 20, 2015, 02:19:11 AM
The code isn't hard to find at all and clearly exist, so please stop saying that it doesn't.

Code:
#ifndef BITCOIN_CIPGROUPS_H
#define BITCOIN_CIPGROUPS_H

#include "netbase.h"

class CScheduler;

// A group of logically related IP addresses. Useful for banning or deprioritising
// sources of abusive traffic/DoS attacks.
struct CIPGroupData {
    std::string name;
    // A priority score indicates how important this group of IP addresses is to this node.
    // Importance determines which group wins when the node is out of resources. Any IP
    // that is not in a group gets a default priority of zero. Therefore, groups with a priority
    // of less than zero will be ignored or disconnected in order to make room for ungrouped
    // IPs, and groups with a higher priority will be serviced before ungrouped IPs.
    int priority;

    CIPGroupData() : priority(0) {}
};
Source: https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/commit/73c9efe74c5cc8faea9c2b2c785a2f5b68aa4c23
File: src/ipgroups.h
Lines: 5 to 24.

It can be found in the master and the latest release of Bitcoin XT:
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/master/src/ipgroups.h
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/blob/0.11A/src/ipgroups.h
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
August 20, 2015, 02:13:38 AM
This needs more exposure! I don't understand why the Core team won't just double size to 2mb and end this nonsense. In a few years time, we can re-visit the issue and possibly bump it up to 4mb if there are still no solutions. The devs are acting like babies.

look like you have lots to read about

Have fun


what's the real problem in upgrading core with a bigger blocksize? i have not seen any other counter argument for this, why instead of making a new "alternative client", we simply go ahead and push the block size on core, it sounds so simple and less troublesome

and it would have saved us all this mess and the crash of bitcoin which was holding really nice until this shit has come out...
hero member
Activity: 534
Merit: 500
August 20, 2015, 01:42:58 AM

It explicitly says it disconnects addresses with low to negative priority.

This would be the first time in history that anyone was blacklisted from using Bitcoin if XT forks, it's a big deal and against the fundamental reasons Bitcoin is used.

Thanks for this...it is a definite eye-opener! Shocked
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 20, 2015, 01:35:47 AM
This needs more exposure! I don't understand why the Core team won't just double size to 2mb and end this nonsense. In a few years time, we can re-visit the issue and possibly bump it up to 4mb if there are still no solutions. The devs are acting like babies.

look like you have lots to read about

Have fun
hero member
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
August 20, 2015, 01:33:12 AM
This needs more exposure! I don't understand why the Core team won't just double size to 2mb and end this nonsense. In a few years time, we can re-visit the issue and possibly bump it up to 4mb if there are still no solutions. The devs are acting like babies.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 20, 2015, 01:09:30 AM

They certainly put IPs on a blacklist, whether it's only DoS attackers or more than that is up for debate, we need a technical expert to go through it to confirm.


They put tor exit nodes on a list.  That list does not function as a black list until or unless a DoS attack starts coming from tor exit nodes and it gets bad enough that the Tor-Exit-Nodes-List gets banned.

If someone is carrying out a DoS attack via Tor, it will disconnect all Tor users rather than only disconnecting the ones performing the attack. 

This is because the people implementing it have no desire to break Tor.  If there was a serious effort to ban only the Tor users perpetrating the DoS attack, that would require breaking Tor anonymity to figure out what users those were.  If you don't make any attempt to break Tor anonymity (and they don't) then you have to treat all Tor connections as equal.

I'm annoyed that they tried to do this at the same time as the block size issue - the block size change would have gone through without a problem if left to adoption rather than blockstream shills screaming about it.  It was plain bad judgment to do anything else at the same time though, because now the block stream shills get to scream FUD about something else in order to fight the block size increase.  I guarantee they wouldn't give a crap about it if the block size increase had already gone through, bitcoin had been made scalable without them, and their fucking expensive business plan which they're trying to build by increasing transaction expenses for everybody, was already in the toilet.

Bitcoin exists for purposes beyond making a profit  for Blockstream. 



Very true, and our former friend, Theymos also supported this idea.

legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1132
August 20, 2015, 01:01:27 AM

They certainly put IPs on a blacklist, whether it's only DoS attackers or more than that is up for debate, we need a technical expert to go through it to confirm.


They put tor exit nodes on a list.  That list does not function as a black list until or unless a DoS attack starts coming from tor exit nodes and it gets bad enough that the Tor-Exit-Nodes-List gets banned.

If someone is carrying out a DoS attack via Tor, it will disconnect all Tor users rather than only disconnecting the ones performing the attack. 

This is because the people implementing it have no desire to break Tor.  If there was a serious effort to ban only the Tor users perpetrating the DoS attack, that would require breaking Tor anonymity to figure out what users those were.  If you don't make any attempt to break Tor anonymity (and they don't) then you have to treat all Tor connections as equal.

I'm annoyed that they tried to do this at the same time as the block size issue - the block size change would have gone through without a problem if left to adoption rather than blockstream shills screaming about it.  It was plain bad judgment to do anything else at the same time though, because now the block stream shills get to scream FUD about something else in order to fight the block size increase.  I guarantee they wouldn't give a crap about it if the block size increase had already gone through, bitcoin had been made scalable without them, and their fucking expensive business plan which they're trying to build by increasing transaction expenses for everybody, was already in the toilet.

Bitcoin exists for purposes beyond making a profit  for Blockstream. 

legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
August 20, 2015, 12:50:28 AM
Quote
Yes i do insult other members when its clearly their agenda is to spread BS and attack opposite sides. They werent here to see everything. To me ditching and trashing Gavin because of some conspiracy is a disgrace of this community.

ummm , I think he's disgraced himself by his actions. When the puppy pees on the rug he needs to be put outside and think about what he has done before he can rejoin the circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJGoZpFeM8
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