Topic: ㅤ - page 19. (Read 11833 times)

No body cares with centralized wallets because dominance by Unites State as country most influential country in the world against with cryptocurrency and afraid impact for USD currency. I think still less and about El Savador as country legal bitcoin little hard how adopt and make bitcoin will be success for legal currency payment, but need process not all bad did by El Savador so far and they have earn much profit before by success sell bitcoin on higher price after investing with lower price.

the unfortunate series of events happened like this

el salv' presdent announced to the world about him grabbing up millions of dollars of bitcoin before putting it to a vote with his people. then he didnt explain to his people what it all meant

his people thought it meant that the dollar(their main currency) was going to get dropped and replaced over night by some crypto they never used or handled before. and so the initial protests began against bitcoin. once they realised that it wasnt a dropping of a dollar but instead having 2 choices of currency they calmed down. but then they seen no advantage of using crypto because for them dollar works.

then those that did use crypto seen lots of issues. and there was a huge lack of education and implementation. in short it was rushed.
they never seen the benefits of real bitcoin. instead they had this altnet wallet and custodial thing happening.

the citizens were hearing words about bitcoin, but then being handed a custodial wallet of a different unit of account. something that was not independantly owned by each citizen but just a balance that they seen on a screen that meant nothing to them, apart fro free $30..

the merchants and services of el salvador didnt get much help and their retail services didnt get much use. again lack of education and lack of implementation.
again those that did want to use that $30 amount of crypto. found issues paying merchants and also trying to get their unit of account to an exchange to get the $30 out, so even more people didnt really like the whole implementation.

this is not bitcoins fault because 99% of the whole implementation has nothing to do with bitcoin..

as for the bonds..
well no one wanted to invest because while el salv government was speaking about $1b of bonds backed by btc. the government only had like $85m of bitcoin in custody. meaning investors already seen the red flag of thinking the bonds are under valued to a tune of 1:12 ratio of fractional reserve

i think he jumped in too quick hoping investors would throw money at him, without him planning how to actually utilise the opportunities that real crypto can offer,

he has now tried a new wallet/custodian service to help get citizens to migrate away from dollar, but as of yet the citizens are still relying on the dollar

Salvadorans may not have confidence in Chivo wallet, that is one of the reasons as some people that uses Chivo wallet complained of money loss few months ago, but not the reason why bitcoin adoption failed in El Salvador, but one of the reasons for slow adoption. Because people do not really use Chivo wallet do not mean bitcoin adoption in El Salvador has failed. Some Salvadorans are still using Chivo wallet and bitcoin.

We can also put it like this, has bank failed in El Salvador? No. But 70% Salvadorans are not having bank accounts. That does not mean banking sector failed but low adoption. Some Salvadorans are not educated and some that are educated are not having bitcoin education and they do not know how to use bitcoin and Chivo wallet.

Also know that El Salvador makes bitcoin legal, friendly about bitcoin and definitely about other cryptocurrencies. I have always said that what that matters most is adoption, El Salvadoran government gave to his people bitcoin adoption which is all that matters.

Yeah, obviously the very point that needs to be made is that El Salvador is not giving their people Bitcoin freedom. This is the reason why Bitcoin is not such a huge hit in El Salvador. So obviously as the answer to the topic of this thread, "Why has bitcoin adoption failed in El Salvador?" I can only say that the failings in El Salvador do not speak for the adoption of Bitcoin itself.

At this point, its not even about Bitcoin in El Salvador but rather using the image of Bitcoin for a PR stunt, hoping other bigger countries take notice of their tiny county.

Its a shame, but it still helps somewhat with getting other smaller countries onboard.

If a country is in a very difficult economic situation and it constantly takes loans, then Bitcoin should not be blamed for this.
Bitcoin can help countries and their citizens get around some sanctions, but if your economy is unprofitable, then adopting Bitcoin will not solve the economic problems in the country.

funny you should say that.. late last years issues with their wallet were problems that were LN related.. oops.. yep you just fell into your own trap of calling your favoured network 'shitty'

at the user level it was just mysql balance which if prompted by a user request would trigger the custodian hub to do a LN payment using their master hub custodian channel. to move some msats to an exchange..
users never had coin control.

this broke because the master hub had mega balance but none of its routes had balance(liquidity) to support the amount of routed funds out of the hub to certain limited services that supported LN in el salvador.
so the LN payments failed due to liquidity bottlenecks between the hubs and services.

but hey. ill give you .. pfft. 6 months to do some research.
..
should you care to do your research(i doubt).
maybe you should look into the hoard of coins that were allocated into the el salv chivo. and actually see if those coins were ever sub divided into millions of independant locks to allow each person to even have key control of a $30 allotment to move between wallets.

should be easy enough to find millions of channels of $30 balance measured in msat.. right?
(hint)
how chivo worked was not as you think, the users couldnt simply take a $30 channel balance and sign it into another wallet provider
..
this prompted el salvador to now be using 'alphapoint' as a custodial service that hoards all the coin and then converts it to fiat within their system. (much like coinbase)
or offers LN entry/exits if customers request withdrawals. and occasionally they can even withdraw actual bitcoin (though as you know and love.. the fee's prompt users to stay away from withdrawing bitcoin)

thus again not actually touching the real bitcoin network nor splitting the funds  of real bitcoin to each person independently

..
big hint .. just because a brand/service/altnet/app says "we are bitcoin" does not mean its actually bitcoin

Great post OP, have I had any smerits left I would've given you already.

Now about the idea of your post, I must say that I too have the same opinion about the bitcoin adoption of El Salvador. I mean yes, it was something that most of us crypto enthusiasts were so thrilled about and have been waiting for since forever but just like what you said this is an uncharted territory. What El Salvador really lacked was patience. As what you can see most of the countries that are pro crypto or the neutral ones never decided on a whim and mostly are even undecided still to this moment. This is because they prefer to observe first and are still devising plans about this so to make it a smoother, less flawed and mutually beneficial for everyone.

You are right, it all takes time to be perfect. I am already proud of the courage and speculation of President Nayib Bukele. They boldly legalized bitcoin which the IMF has opposed. Although they have to accept the risk of not getting money and the World Bank also does not give him a loan. The transactions of few users do not understand I think it is limited because they do not have the ability of the economy evenly. I think it's quite interesting with the Airdrop that has been given, it's one form of introduction. Perhaps Bukele has other main goals such as making Bitcoin a reserve of the country's assets.

I will prefer to go for decentralized wallet, but you should understand this, individual can use decentralized wallet in El Salvador if you like and you will have the custody of your bitcoin, nobody is saying you can not be in control of your coin. But El Salvador make bitcoin a legal tender, which means Salvadoran government will be in control of the bitcoin they bought and make their citizens to use it. It is centralized, have very cheap fee. If people do not like that and want privacy, they can go for noncustododial wallet. There is no way a country will make something they can not control a legal tender, that is why El Salvador buy the bitcoin his citizens are using to have the control.

If that were true then Coinbase, Blockchain.com, all the exchanges, ... and movements like not-your-keys-not-your-coin or even closed source wallets wouldn't have existed!
How many people are keeping their coins in their Coinbase account? How many are storing bitcoin on exchanges?

There is no doubt that the governments will always want control and Chivo was created for that purpose but at least they were clear from day one that you don't have to use Chivo and can use any other wallet you like. It's not like they mandated that the only legal way to use bitcoin is through their shitty wallet!

That would have been true if nobody had any bank account, credit card, etc. So they already are trusting the government with their money

THIS exactly this.

Nobody cares about centralized wallets. Why would a leader of a country pretend to understand the benefits of Bitcoin only to go against the very nature of Bitcoin? If I had Bitcoin in El Salvador, then I definitely would not want a wallet which is centralized. Thats just dumb.

Comparing El Salvador Bitcoin legalisation as subjective to the centralized government wallet is not really worth the trouble, as nobody wants to trust the government with their money anyway.

I find the OP's analysis interesting, as I did not know several things he tells, but I think it is too early to say that adoption has failed, as others have commented just as there is data like the APP download Chivo that does not make sense, as there is not an unlimited number of people in El Salvador, therefore we cannot expect an infinitely increasing number of downloads.


Most likely, anyone who buys bitcoin expects it to go up, and if they expect it to go up, it is foolish to spend it.

I think this map of countries which adopted bitcoin legally proves that it actually worked:

About Adoption Bitcoin is very good but as some people here have said their approach i think its right with opinion some people, their approach is quite a failure which makes it seem like it's a failure.
The problem is quite simple, they still don't really understand bitcoin but they are fed too much and the use of Chivo which immediately makes this worse.
For people who already have a basic knowledge of bitcoin, this is indeed something that is quite good but how for those who are new to it, of course there must be further introduction about it.
This doesn't mean it's a failure in my opinion, but it's a process that is expected to be too high so that when the prospects are low, it is immediately labeled as a failure

It's almost impossible to apply such a modern system to serve for/by ignorant people when to know about the high illiteracy rate in Salvador with the high crime rate beside a low schooling rate. People still found it easy to use dollars over all currencies. Before all, not everybody has a mobile phone connected to the internet.

The bitcoin adoption around the globe keeps increasing. If adoption in El Salvador is  failed one, why more countries show interest on cryptocurrency adoption. More small countries legalise bitcoin as legal tender following El Salvador. Surely the new comers won't come directly, they'll analyse and further enter the market. In that way I find Central African Republic's adoption of bitcoin an example. Following that Panama, a latin american country have passed a bill that will regulate cryptocurrency usage.

The bill has to be signed by the President to be a law. If the law gets passed the acceptance of cryptocurrencies from businesses and the usage of cryptocurrencies by the residents gets legalised. However no clear information has got revealed on the usage of bitcoin even when the law is being passed as the country has got its Panamanian balboa and US dollar in usage.

I went to the article, and I think that the charts are a bit misleading. For example, the Figure 6 one is talking about .6 share of the population. Which is technically right if the population is 1, but since it doesn't say the population is 1, people might think that less than 1% know about Chivo, whereas it's actually 68%, and over half downloaded the app (all of this is on p. 2 of that paper), and that's in a country where Internet access is at around 60% itself. But the fact that only 5% of all sales that conducted in Bitcoin is quite sad. What would be really interesting to see next to this figure, though, is the percentage of sales where people pay by card. Because of course cash is easier to use, but I wonder how Bitcoin is doing compared to the banking industry in this country, where 70% of people are unbanked.
I think that low level of usage of online banking (90% don't use it), of banking in general (70% are unbanked) and low internet penetration can be viewed as key factors of why this adoption isn't going well.

I honestly never heard of a single thing in universe that was adopted without issues in less than a year.
Funny thing, I didn't know that United States National Bureau of Economic Research is so much interested in internal affairs of El Slavador and Bitcoin.
Maybe they are just concerned that dollar will lose more value after Central African Republic and other countries are following similar steps and making Bitcoin a legal tender.

I don't consider that bitcoin adoption failed in El Salvador because millions of people used bitcoin and downloaded Chivo wallet, because they all received $30 for free.
Fan fact is that more people used Chivo wallet than El Salvadorian bank, but that doesn't mean that citizens are receiving paychecks and earnings in Bitcoin, and it's normal activity will slow down after $30 was spent.
There is no going back now, but I would promote other wallets that are free and non-custodial in El Salvador.

I think its now high timebwe stop getting moved by the outcome of staging a protest in the name of expressing displeasure, we have many areas of the economy that needed amendment especially in the economical era of fiat system and our government interference innit, on countless occasions there have been protect against the government and i see this bitcoin protest as just a minor one compared to the ones wage against the government on bad economy situation, this protect is just like a group of less than 50 protesters influenced by the anti bitcoin entities to cause disrupt, because base on the statistics above we could see how the percentage of those that make use of the chivo wallet is high.

And can you name those places and have some numbers for this "usage"?
I know places that accept coins, and I know owners of businesses that do so, they all tell me the same story for the last 5 years, usage isn't there.
Talks about it, groups, chats, investments, buying and holding yeah, this is happening for sure, but spending, no!


And you just invalidated your own point with this one, you just told all the people in Salvador to hold their coins instead of spending because they will be worth more next year.
How can you argue about daily usage when you say stuff like that?


Oh yeah, using somebody's else money in order to promote something to make other people rich.
I think I read this somewhere in Satohis's whitepaper but can't remember where, mind pointing it out?