Topic: ㅤ - page 20. (Read 11879 times)

Just like maybe most of us here, I did celebrate when it was announced that El Salvador is going to recognized Bitcoin not just another form of money but as its legal tender...wow that news send good amount of positive vibes all over the crypto world. I was then expecting that people would love to taste the freedom they can enjoy with Bitcoin and that a critical number of people would be using Bitcoin everyday even as to buy a toothpaste or a soda in a nearby convenience store. So what happened then with that assumptions? Is there now a big failure after 7 months of opening the gates for Bitcoin in this small country...or have we looked at things in a very myopic way of view? Hate to say that whatever outcomes in El Salvador would have a far-reaching repercussions in the general adoption of Bitcoin especially with many countries who can be modeling their decisions here in El Salvador. Anyway, we can all magnify what happened or we can just shrug them off as non-important to Bitcoin.

Will it rather not be early to conclude that bitcoin adoption has failed in El Salvador. Howbeit, I have these following to say according to your article.

• According to the statistics above, the awareness of the chivo wallet and bitcoin is about 80%, which is very huge. The $30 airdrop has accomplished it's purpose,  which is awareness.
• If not the method El Salvador used, this should be the awareness stage and experimental stage with one city of the country.  I will rather say they were in a haste.
• El Salvador adopted bitcoin when it was $50k and above and since then, there has not been ATH. It is a very big challenge
• My take is that government is a continuity, this present government has created the awareness and made some tangible efforts, next government can continue.  I don't wish El Salvador adoption of bitcoin to fail because it will really affect others intending to

Best also to reference a point I saw someone already mention in one of these threads: if you don't set yourself up to succeed, you fail.

So many points to address they did not even attempt to, putting the cart before the horse. Basic, fundamental economic structures like IT, communication, education.

Not to forget this wasn't even what the people knew was even an option, let alone that they could vote for it. Yet another agenda pushed down their throats, ignoring the far more significant daily struggles they have to go through.

Country's currently under state of emergency, martial law, by the way. Gang violence, murders, riots, looting. Bukele is cracking down dictator level now on his people, so you bet Bitcoin's the last thing on anyone's mind there. You're a regular El Salvadoran, you're caught between bloodthirsty gangs and an unaccountable government.

How this was ever going to be a champion of/for Bitcoin I never understood.

Well I surmise the following is happening right now:

1. There are powerful people behind who doesn't want Bitcoin in El Salvador
2. People doesn't want Bitcoin per se because it is a new technology and mostly the population is uneducated, hence they are afraid that they might not have the tools
3. Maybe the population thinks that Bitcoin will just harm their economy for long term.

If 20% of the population continue to use Chivo after claiming their $30, that's actually a pretty good result. That's way better adoption than the rest of the world, where only single-digit or even below-single-digit share of population frequently uses Bitcoin.

Also, this report doesn't show the most important metric - transaction volume. How much money is moved through Chivo or Bitcoin in general, compared to all other payment methods? Because if those 20% of the population use Chivo a few times per year, then adoption is indeed low.

El Salvador is going through a lot of challenges. Inflation, crime violence, infrastructural deficit and low investment in education. These challenges needs to be tackled before we can see the benefits of bitcoin. It's true that 7months is not enough to judge the adoption's failure or success. But El Salvador government is always hasty in making policy pronouncements on bitcoin. And some of this policy statements are inconsistent with the country's laws. There are speculations that the reason for the delay of the bitcoin bonds was because it was inconsistent with the country's pension laws. Delays in implementation of such proclamation can cause disaffection among the people. It could mean that the government is not doing its job well.

Also, the government has mind-blowing plans for bitcoin such as the bitcoin city that would be built from some of the proceeds of the bond. For me, El Salvador don't need a bitcoin city except it is certain that this city would be of economic benefit to the country. Rather they need to invest in security, education and infrastructure. Investing in this areas would naturally increase the use of bitcoin. No investor or tourist would be willing to invest or visit a country that in facing insecurity.

Bitcoin awareness is key to its acceptability in El Salvador. Everybody likes freedom and financial security. If the people of El Salvador understands the benefits of adopting bitcoin, they would freely adopt it. Hence, the government should invest on bitcoin education.

This is exactly what happened. The President make a firm decision without consideration about the investment of his country to Bitcoin. He goes all in while the citizens is still not in favor due to Bitcoin volatility. Mass adoption will surely failed if it will be done by force and not through an open way of encouraging his people. Right now El Salvador already loss million dollars with there investment, This will just ignite havoc to its citizen while Bitcoin reputation will just be put in question. This surely fails.

I don't think the approach was the main reason, in fact as I said elsewhere analyzing things in El Salvador is a bit difficult because of their economy. In other words if we consider the adoption a failure (which I say that is also too soon to say) the problem was the terrible economy of El Salvador.

Another thing to consider is that during most of the time they adopted bitcoin as legal tender, bitcoin price hasn't been doing well. We already know that weird volatility or weird drops is always been a big discouraging factor for people to look towards bitcoin while more consistent market or a rising price has always done the opposite.
I am sure if we had a way to measure adoption of bitcoin elsewhere we would see pretty similar results to the adoption in El Salvador.

Isn't this chart showing number of Chivo downloads and isn't this considered normal?
For starters you download the wallet once and only once. You don't need to download it every day.
Also you don't have to use Chivo, in fact you shouldn't use it because it is centralized and closed source. Instead people should and may be using something else like Electrum.
I'm not saying they are but just pointing out that like most surveys on cryptocurrencies this one also has many flaws.

P.S. I believe that the protests had more of a political nature rather than having anything to do with bitcoin.

Perhaps the approach used was wrong or lack of proper awareness to prepare the people of El Salvador before the legalization. Maybe it should have began with acceptance, give the option to all businesses around El Salvador to make the decision to accept or not, give opportunity to the people to use it and decide through the feedback if they are all ready to make it a legal tender.

Maybe it was hurriedly done, process like this needs time, people have been on fiat for decades, it won't be easy for some to just switch overnight.
It is not just about the majority of people in El Salvador being poor, it is more about 'change' some don't like sudden change, they find it difficult to quickly adapt. It is a matter of time before they will understand it much better. It is too early to consider it a failure when fiat has been around for generations.

We have to keep in mind that El Salvador is a very poor and underdeveloped country.
The vast majority of the population are pretty traditionalist and conservative.They want to stick with what they are familiar with.The people,who are open minded and want to embrace new technology are a really small part of the population.
The "download Chivo wallet,get 30 USD for free" campaign was pretty much expected to fail.There's no clear incentive for the people to use the Chivo wallet,except those 30 USD.
The current state of Bitcoin doesn't help for mass adoption.There's a high inflation around the world and the Bitcoin price isn't moving anywhere.The myth about Bitcoin being able to protect your wealth against inflation is about to get busted.

This is all quite over blown.


Remember, it has been 7 months.
7 months!

You can't call the adoption of a new currency a failure after 7 months lol


This is the VERY BEGINNING of Bitcoin adoption in El Salvador. Let's come back to this in 5 or 10 years to see what is happening there.

There are places in El Salvador where Bitcoin usage is quite popular, and in fact was already popular before it became legal tender. So to think it hasn't caught on at all is just wrong.

Also, Chivo had plenty of software problems when it launched, Bitcoin education in general everywhere in the world is very low so you can't expect a significant amount of people in a country to suddenly start using a currency they know nothing about, especially when it is entirely optional. And for most of the time since it became legal tender the price has been going down and been low, which is precisely the time when people don't show interest in Bitcoin. It's really hard to get new people interested in Bitcoin when the price is going down for months. You have to actually be educated about Bitcoin to not care about that because then you know short term price movements don't matter.

I think those numbers all look pretty decent considering it's only been 7 months and most of that has been a price downturn. I bet those numbers will start popping up once Bitcoin is hitting new all time highs and El Salvadorians start to realize they could have had much more money if they had been taking and holding onto Bitcoin the whole time.


This proclamation that Bitcoin failed there reminds me of similar statements of Bitcoin having failed as a currency or a store of value because it hasn't yet become a global currency or widely accepted store of value.

Remember people, we are still sooooo early in Bitcoin's growth and adoption. It's only been 13 years. And in El Salvador it's been all of 7 months haha. This "bitcoin failed" narrative is just a negative narrative by anti-bitcoiners to push their bias.

Also, as far as the Bitcoin protests that happened back when it first became legal tender...it's not like these were mass protests. It was like a few hundred people here and there. The media just picked it up to create a narrative of the people not wanting Bitcoin. And it's a pretty safe bet that of the small amount of people in the country who were out protesting Bitcoin, those are people who probably don't know they first thing about Bitcoin, as that is the common thread among 99% of people in the world who think they don't like Bitcoin.

Final thought...imagine if after credit cards came out a survey was done to find that not very many people used credit cards yet half a year later and so credit cards were deemed a failure. Think about how stupid that would be. And so now realize how stupid it is to say now that Bitcoin failed in El Salvador just because it hasn't been widely accepted after only 7 months.

I believe that it was certainly a good experience for bitcoin adoption anyway.
Are people in El Salvador using bitcoin now? No, but it is too soon an it certainly made a lot of people more interested in bitcoin all over the world.

 it is a small step towards a long run bitcoin is doing.  A lot of companies and global authorities gave a more serious thought about bitcoin, and certainly it was positive overall


Things are a little tricky in these latin América countries. I believe this is very like Brazil.
Many protestors are paid to be there. How come someone, a simple person, protest against bitcoin adoption? If he doesn't want he is not forced to use it. Those people don't even know what bitcoin is.

Certainly these people are there for reasons they can't even figure out.

Practical incentive for bitcoin adoption comes from those who create the jobs opportunities in the country. No one can expect common citizens and individual merchants are going to push adoption up by themselves. The method would be much more efficient if the government and big employers paid wages in bitcoin to workers.

Moreover, adoption would also increase nicely if supermarkets networks and other important stores where you can find basic goods for daily life gave discounts for people when paying with bitcoin.

People aren't going to use bitcoin if they don't see a practical benefit on it. And to protect money against inflation and government's intervention, privacy, anonymity aren't reasons most people keep on their minds. Most people don't even save money, so they see no reason to care about that.

7-8 month duration after of the said legal tender kind of decision wont really be that enough or something that we could make out conclusions out on that very short time manner but at least we are seeing that there

are people who do really tend to make use of that Chivo wallet.Wont really be that an assured thing though if users would increase in numbers overtime but at least there is some recognition.

I do agree on the sense about being centralized as it do really introduce about a custodial wallet which people do mind about anonymity will surely be opposing with that idea.

This is one hell of a can of surströmming you're opening here. I'm probably the last person on this forum to defend Bukele and his Chivo project but I don't think anything has failed, rather it has exactly gone as one could have expected.

Adoption, this is one tricky word, what does it even mean, people holding bitcoin spending it using for personal p2p transfers between family and friends or just trading? I can't picture an accurate definition of this adoption when it comes to btc, and even if we go for usage alone, there are other problems, for example is loading a debit visa card with btc usage?

One can argue that people hoard coins, very much possible, if the numbers from Salvador as little as they are would be quantified to the claims of users in the world, there aren't enough addresses and tx to cover that. So I'm not sure that adoption has failed, rather I would call it a failure of replacing traditional payment methods.
As for one of those numbers, the Chivo app downloads, the decline makes sense, every app does so after launch, you install it once and that's it.

But one more thing, and this might be a clear evidence of how things are going, is it just my impression or has Bukele stopped buying the dip for quite a while lately?

The wallet is problematic in one way, but it was meant to create awareness among the common people about the usage of bitcoin providing $30 free. We can't state the bitcoin adoption a failure in El Salvador. It is almost 7-8 months since the bitcoin adoption happened in El Salvador, which means we're getting into conclusion in a very fast manner.

Based on the data provided by OP, there is lack of usage of Chivo wallet, majority haven't downloaded it, very little businesses around the country have begun to accept bitcoin. Most of the businesses that accept bitcoin too is converting it to USD within a short time. So, different factors indicating that there is no big movement within the country as per the plan. Surely this is a success in the long term.

Nayib legalized bitcoin as a legal tender but not with its freedom. Instead of teaching its citizens about the basic technicalities of bitcoin, the government introduced the Chivo centralized wallet which meant the population was directed to remain in government control from the start. I had predicted that they would fail that way, and the initial sign was a problematic wallet which was a little frustrating.

This is a good decision.
Implementations forcefully can impact a bad impression on people. And also others states will get bad bad impression too.
Optional is a better decision.
Because every state have different minded people.

I go through the report and where I also got some reasons why the people didn't download the wallet here I am quoting.


Mostly reasons are pointing out that it forcefully implemented therefore people didn't take it seriously and go against.
But in future better decisions can lead this situation in right way.

But still the people of El Salvador Harshly against it.
Here you can see in the photo.

I very much agree with you that the failure to the later as per bitcoin adoption was basically due to the approach used. I don't Reside in El-Salvador to be entirely conscious of there state of affairs before the Bill was paste but, it was rather too sudden and change when it comes too sudden never gets to last for a long time.

Bitcoi  is a currency of will. Its adoption and used cases has functioned due to the freewill nature of it and with its users. Gir this to be more possible, it operates in a decentralized system for which, no government or organisation stayed in the center of its affairs but, we can't say the same about the Chivo wallet, can we?
Apparently not and that would libe citizens with some biased mindset on some attributes that are supposed to come with bitcoin as per its be in charge of your financial affairs nature.

Airdropped $30 actually pushed for a pump of the app download. Who wouldn't want that and it coming at no cost.
Meanwhile, bitcoin is not some stable currency following its volatile nature and not all citizens have got the investor mindset or are ready to hold on there needs and hodl bitcoin in a bear market so, it becomes painful selling, especially when you received coin within a bullish market. Hence, a lot of users won't want to go with it but instead, stick to the fairly stable fiat gor which they are more adapted to.

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