Topic: ㅤ - page 6. (Read 11875 times)

Exactly this.
It is understandable to see some people talk about the "failure" just because bitcoin didn't moon since the day El Salvador adopted bitcoin we saw a lot of topics talking about how they are going to become "rich" from the "pump"! These are the same people who buy $10 worth of bitcoin and expect to become a millionaire in a week.

But the way the mainstream media has been attacking El Salvador because they only abandoned US dollar a tiny bit is pure propaganda. Adopting bitcoin was never supposed to perform miracles in this poor country but it was a great first step towards that over the long haul.

I know how often countries "mock" El Salvador's decision to adopt "an unregulated cryptocurrency" as legal tender. They believe Bitcoin won't last for long because it's not issued or controlled by a central authority (eg: Banks, governments). Opposing countries are also taking into consideration Bitcoin's price volatility in Fiat terms. But what they don't know is that Bitcoin is more than just the price.

Being a censorship-resistant kind of money no one controls does brings its benefits. President Bukele knows this, so he's been using government funds to invest into Bitcoin for true financial sovereignty. You can't sanction or freeze Bitcoin-related transactions unlike Fiat. Bitcoin is deflationary by design, so it's likely it'll be worth a more in the future. If El Salvador "sticks to the plan", it could become the richest country in Latin America. Just my opinion

Thank you for having this update here, I've thought about it as much and seing it already on this thread is a thing of joy maybe this could silent abit the overflowing noise from those claiming failure with El-Savador's bitcoin adoption and also laying all manners of attacks on their president, Nayib Bukele, i think El-Savador needed to be respected, this is their own decision madea and anyone has the freedom as well to choose on what to do, those attacking have no points in defending themselves than to create fuse through the media and cause distractions, Nayib Bukele could have be silently patient enough to have come out boldly this time around after several occasions of attacks on his led administration and bitcoin adoption, well, there have always been continuity in El-Savador's economy through the adoption and nothing bis changing this fact.

Recently, President Nayibbukele criticized Western-controlled media that unfairly spoke out about bitcoin being legal tender in El Salvador that had failed. We've been through a bearish season for almost a year so far, and El Salvador maintains a hardline stance still not selling any bitcoin, along with that they are promoting bitcoin-related issues such as bringing bitcoin into education, continuing to develop bitcoin city...It's just the beginning, so don't judge us, we need time.


Source: Bitcoin Magazine

What are you talking about?  Are you merely assuming that OP is true?  That bitcoin adoption in El Salvador actually failed rather than considering such statement as presumptive...

In other words, you sound like you are praying for the bitcoin adoption that took place in El Salvador to get reversed, and that wish seems unlikely.

So sucks to be stuck with such fantasies, no?

You might want to attempt to learn why bitcoin is valuable in a place like El Salvador rather than merely wishing that its adoption had not happened or that such adoption in El Salvador or otherwise could be undone.

The people of the country are not ready, the governments of the world are not supportive, and the IMF wants El Salvadore to reverse its Bitcoin legal tender. And El Salvadore, as an economy, is one of the poorest economies in Latin America. It had to happen.

It's not funny - because markets move against long-term investors all the time, and many times, they do not get out of the investment merely because their overall investment is in the negative.  Many times, so long as the investment is solid, then sooner or later their investment will end up going back in the green (black), even if they do not do anything, but an even smarter move (so long as the investment is truly a good one), is to continue to add to the seemingly losing position while it is in the negative.

Of course, there are not any guarantees that in the long run the investment will end up coming back out of the negative - but many time investments with decently strong fundamentals (such as bitcoin) will end up coming out of their negative period, and continuing to invest in them (either by merely HODLing or buying more) will end up being a very wise decision that might not seem wise and/or prudent during the period that the investment is in the negative. 

Again, your supposed "joke" is not funny because you are striving to make Bukele, El Salvador and/or any other investor appear as if they are dumb when they are down in their investment - as if they should have known in advance what you happen to have found out in retrospect when the BTC price ended up going down. 

Your supposed "joke" is also not funny because it may well end up either not being taken as a joke and to suggest that folks should be able to know the price in advance and some people may well end up getting scared from investing into bitcoin for fear of ending up in a similar position as being the proclaimed "fool" - when more likely the better course of action would likely be for people who have cash to be taking prudent attempts to be investing in bitcoin during times like this.. and prudence might even mean that they should either be attempting to be aggressive in their bitcoin investment and even lump sum investing into bitcoin, rather than either a less aggressive DCA strategy or even a wait and see strategy - which might be something that supposed "jokes" like yours mislead people into such wrong financial and mental frameworks.


Well more specifically, bitcoin has nearly gotten through 13 years, and on January 3, 2023 it will be beginning its 14 years of existence and pumping out blocks every 10 minutes.  Tick tock, next block.  Bitcoin is amazing in the sense that it continues to run, and surely in its earliest of years, not very many people were paying attention to it because it hardly had any monetary value but also the circles of people who were hearing about it were likely either very technical or they were in cypherpunk circles - so in some sense bitcoin was not getting too much publicity - except through various word of mouth - and surely even though the internet can spread information - the ideas of bitcoin were not really reaching or sinking in for regular people.

It seems quite likely that even currently people are not really understanding bitcoin very well because there is a lot of confusion about money, assets and value, so bitcoin seems like a kind of fantasy money that makes little sense to many people in terms of taking it seriously and the fact that there are so many pump and dump "crypto" scams that likely cause reasonable areas of confusion for regular people to really start to understand what bitcoin is and what it is providing, attempting to provide and likely to provide into the future.

We should not be too distracted by bitcoin's unit price either, even though it does show stupendous financial appreciation in the past nearly 14 years, and maybe we can suggest that bitcoin did not really start to develop too much financial value until about 2013 or so.  Accordingly, maybe bitcoin's financial growth might ONLY be measured from a time in which it started to take off in value.. but then again, if we actually look at bitcoin's value in terms of its price and it's market cap, currently, bitcoin's market cap is around $360 Billion, which continues to be a pretty small market cap, relatively speaking - even though it had gotten up to around $1.2 trillion in market cap in it's latest 2021 top (when BTC prices were in the upper $60ks).

So yeah, right now, if we look at bitcoin and we compare it to gold, we can see that bitcoin's market cap is about 1/20th the size of gold, but it is quite likely that if bitcoin continues to do what it is doing with success, then bitcoin has about 1,000x the value of gold, yet it could take 30 to 200 years for bitcoin to reach such fair value in the market - which would require continued adoption and even ongoing development to continue to make software tools that people know how to use and are able to use and are available to people if bitcoin's adoption were to continue to increase more than 5,000x from it's current price in order to reach something closer to what it's actual value is likely to be based on various current addressable market considerations in the various ways that bitcoin is much more efficient to store the value of currencies and other assets in which value is currently being stored... so surely we still seem to be in very early days, and there are some folks who seem to be able to see the vision and to see through some of the ongoing price battles in recent times (if we might want to consider that the current price might be a bit depressed from where it should be in terms of where bitcoin is going... Don't get me wrong, merely because I am suggesting that BTC prices are currently suppressed, I would not consider that bitcoin prices could not continue to be suppressed for way longer into the future than any of us might speculate to be reasonable - given bitcoins seemingly ongoing strong fundamentals and strong use cases that substantiate its continued ongoing strong investment thesis).


I agree both with the idea that continued investment in bitcoin remains a good idea, and surely they have not gotten rid of the dollar, but instead bitcoin gives them options above and beyond merely being locked into ONLY the dollar which likely would have continued to have been oppressive on them, as it has historically done to a lot of countries who have been trying to advance their own world status.. and to become more developed.  Adopting Bitcoin seems to give more options, even if it also seems to cause El Salvador to be targeted for ridiculing and seemingly bullying attempts by the dollar-based dominant systems.

They've only been adopting bitcoin for a year and just because we're in bear season and quickly conclude that they've failed, we're really being too harsh on them. We often tell each other bitcoin is a long-term investment and once sold, there is no loss, so why do we rush to conclude they failed? Our conclusion is no different from the bitcoin haters out there, bitcoin haters are still spreading the word about bitcoin's death even though bitcoin is in its 13th year and it's dying at $20k now. Bitcoin adoption won't make El Salvador a superpower or get rich quickly, but it proves they have a vision for bitcoin. They are the people who know how to seize the opportunity and have the opportunity to rise to become a developed country, it is better to continue using the US dollar and be dominated by the major powers.

I personally don't dare to say bitcoin adoption in El Salvador failed, even though we know they haven't been able to lift their economy for the better, but it's still too early to decide all that, because El Salvador only legalized bitcoin a year ago, so all of that needs a process and it takes time, it is not as easy as turning the palm of the hand, we can see from the journey of bitcoin, in the past no one believed in bitcoin, even many said bitcoin was a trash currency that had no value, but after a few years bitcoin has a very high value, even people who dared to adopt bitcoin in 2010 and then, may now be millionaires.

My reply was supossed to be a joke if anyone did not get it. I was only laughing at Bukele's reasoning on why he did not lose money because it is very much a similar reaction to those retail investors who are losing money in their investments when the market is dumping hehehehe.

The government of El Salvador is aware of the high volatility of Bitcoin. The decline in the price of Bitcoin they have is not the reason for El Salvador's failure to implement Bitcoin as a means of payment.
El Salvador with their hard work and patience in implementing something new to their country. currently, the government still holds Bitcoin and does not sell it. this is like what we do when we see the bitcoin market price is lower than our buy price. instead of frantically selling all the bitcoins they have.

I agree with you, when the market improves, it will bring huge profits to El Salvador. and that success could support for other countries to start legalizing Bitcoin as a means of payment.
more people will think the same as you think.

Bukele's government has been buying Bitcoin regardless of its price in Fiat terms. Not a single coin has been sold so far, so El Salvador hasn't lost anything yet. I'd say this is a good strategy, because it could make the Latin-American country one of the richest (if not the richest) ones in the world after the crypto market turns bullish again. Bitcoin has been shown to reach a new All-time-high in price after every halving event, so it's likely the same will happen by 2024.

If Bitcoin becomes a huge success in El Salvador, then other countries won't think twice by making Bitcoin legal tender. Who knows if there's a very bright future ahead for long-time Bitcoin "hodlers" like us? Just my thoughts

El Salvador bitcoin law did not do anything in regards to "crypto," but instead the law is bitcoin specific... so your use of the term crypto is distracting, non-specific to what is happening in El Salvador, and perhaps suggests that either you do not know what bitcoin is, sufficiently to talk about bitcoin rather than some stupid-ass vague and amorphous term that tends to confuse issues rather than clarify or merely seem to want to appear more enlightened about the issue (which it does not achieve).  

Furthermore, you are likely going to get fucked if you try to apply HODL principles to various shitcoins.. The idea of HODL and even the idea of assessing bitcoin for strong fundamental values is not going to necessarily apply to any other coin/"crypto" especially if you are also vaguely referring to such concept, so that we do not even know what the hell you are talking about.  Do you know your reference  when you are using that vague term?

Another matter in regards to whatever the charts and the BTC price action might say, countries are not likely in the business of buying, selling and trading and attempting to either figure out which way the BTC price might go or to attempt to accumulate more dollars by trading in and out of bitcoin.  Even if you might consider that the end result is the same (to attempt to increase value overall), it seems that attempts to go down a longer term investment path, whether a country, an institution or an individual, then there are going to be primary goals that involve BTC accumulation and attempting to reach BTC accumulation targets, and surely in some sense, there are going to be more complicated goals that exist with institutions and/or government in terms of various objectives and obligations that they might have to serve represented interests.. whereby individuals and maybe even smaller institutions might have more abilities to focus on narrower self-centered goals.


This is a ridiculous theme regarding either the dependency of the investment into bitcoin to be dependent completely on number go up or that anyone would have very much ability to predict the BTC price with any level of confidence.


He did not pass a "crypto" law in El Salvador - even though of course, a bunch of shitcoins and shitcoiners will attempt to hitch their shitty wagons to the idea and act as if the passed law (and implementation) relates to some vague-ass concept to pump nonsense.. rather than the reality of the law and the implementation being bitcoin specific and bitcoin focused.


Fuck crypto!  and shitcoins too.

One part of me agrees with you that they might have jumped on the bitcoin boat prematurely but then again when all this was happening markets were bullish to the extent of getting predictions of price reaching possible highs of 100k which could convince anyone to jump the gun! Now here is the only problem I find with buying crypto and holding/hodling it, to hodl means the price will be bullish nothing less which is a narrative we need to change as this is old skol! We need to have crypto and trade it as the charts demand.. if price action says bullish let's buy and hold/hodl...if price action on the charts says sell, let's sell, this way we shall all be laughing our way to the bank to cash out big!


I am pretty sure Nayib Bukele the President of El Salvador meant well for his country but unfortunately, the market has a mind of its own which was unforeseen and nobody ever saw the markets crashing to this low.

But away from market performance, you really have to give the man some credit for pushing for crypto adoption in his country when other others turned their backs on it which is a win for crypto! Btw with all these crypto advancements sooner or later this could be a crypto haven where crypto companies will be setting up physical offices in  El Salvador which could lead to direct/indirect employment which is a win-win for everyone....its currently just a waiting game but everything will fall in place.

It would not be totally true to conclude that President Bukele did not consult the people before the introduction of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin law was debated in the Parliament and a vote was conducted. The bill won the majority by 62–19 votes and it was passed into law. The Parliamentarians represent and speak for the people, hence the people were duly represented.


It is important to clarify that the President in a democratic system of government is accountable to the people. Leaders sometimes sample public opinions about their intended decisions to ascertain their acceptability. Inputs from citizens, professional bodies, trade unions, and other non-governmental organizations are important in policy formulation and implementation.

Critics just assume that El Salvadorans are not pleased with Bukele's decision to adopt Bitcoin, but there are no valid or reliable polls that authenticate this fact. Most times these critics are sponsored by opposition political parties that want to use propaganda to grab power. 

 

So if you're a president,you will first seek the permission from the people before taking a step further? that's totally not possible you know quite alright yourself that you wouldn't do that and here he's wise enough not to introduce altcoin or token but gave the very best with bitcoin yet you insisted he's unfair?


These are part of the challenges you'll encounter as a president, moreover he never mandated every citizen to use it, so it's optional and i think Nayib Bukele is fare enough with that.


Nothing has failed regarding El-Savador's bitcoin adoption, try conduct your research properly and reconfirm again.


and that's why we ultimately need to caution ourselves to some of the means through which we obtain our information because many were just out to create stir in providing fake news in other to trend, any information i get online i personally go further in confirming such from the official portal and most of the things been said of El-Savador were actually not the real state of the situation there.

It's not easy to take guys like you serious bbc.reporter.. when you seem to be focused on one indicator - current BTC price, and the fact that it went down somewhere in the ballpark of 70% in the past year - as if that is the primary measure about whether bitcoin adoption in El Salvador is not failing.

Another matter is that the idea of proclaiming failure - seems to be quite wishful in the sense that outside measurements would be acceptable to determine whether El Salvador's introduction of Bitcoin and the way that the did it has failed.

Sure, I would not be opposed to setting forth some criteria regarding what would be successful or what would be an absence of failure... So in that sense, any of us could proclaim that El Salvador has failed in their bitcoin implementation because they failed/refused to set forth reasonable objective measures, and they implied a prediction that the BTC price would go up (and the BTC price has not gone up).

We might also assert that if Bukele or any of his administrators do not establish a clear successorship policy regarding the bitcoin, and they might run away with the bitcoin, so if someone were to run away with the bitcoin in the National treasury, then that would add to establishing that bitcoin adoption has failed in El Salvador - although the management of El Salvador's treasury remains only one way in which bitcoin adoption success or failure might be measured.

Maybe we would make some progress in this particular thread if we were able (someone) to come up with some criteria in which to measure success or failure, and surely we might not even agree on all of the criteria, but it might still be good to see a list of the various ways to measure and to figure out which ones are controversial and which ones are not.. which ones are objectively easy to verify and which ones are not..   Maybe even then to look at each of these variables at particular points in time to see if progress might be being made in some areas and lack of progress might be happening in other areas?

We cannot tell everyone that El Salvador has failed yet in their plans for bitcoin's adoption in their country. However, what we are witnessing is that it is very difficult to adopt as a medium of exchange because of volatility.

I am aware that it is arguable. But Bukele's excuse of not losing $50 million because he did not sell is a funny one because it appears he did with where the market price presently is. This is also the same excuse we say when we hold an asset below the purchase price. He has become one of us heheheheh.

I don't know why there have being so much speculation on the outcome of El Salvador's Bitcoin adoption when the country just adopted bitcoin there is no way we can say El Salvador's Bitcoin adoption is a failed experiment when El Salvador has a long-term goal for Bitcoin.

If we must know something which is, El Salvador does not have a currency and this is not the first time El Salvador is adopting a currency it has to happen before, and seeing that Bitcoin is adopted as an alternative currency makes it more suitable for El Salvador for long-term developmental goals.

I'm still watching their country and what Nayib Bukele is doing with his plan, really we shouldn't be too hasty in declaring them failed. They like us are in bear season, so the price drop is inevitable. As long as we don't sell bitcoin that means we have nothing to lose and neither does El Salvador. They have never sold any of their bitcoins so there is no way they fail or lose their bitcoin investment.
One of his latest statements about his country's bitcoin situation, everything is still under his control.