From my own perspective, Bitcoin adoption is a gradual process, it takes time for growth. When Bitcoin first came into Existence, it didn't boom immediately, it took awhile which include awareness period,trial and the likes.
In El Salvador process was not done the way it was supposed to be, the government should have created the awareness of Bitcoin and it's benefits to the citizens before the adoption. It was lack of knowledge that made the citizens withdraw to 10% of it's users when Bitcoin plummeted.
The government should have study her people and understood what should have came in first before the adoption of BTC.
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The major problem with the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption presently is the lack of motivation on the side of the citizens and the lack support for the government to help push the Bitcoin project in that country forward.
i can tell you of a truth right away that El-Savador isn't quite about it bitcoin adoption, there have been development of many kinds in bringing this into a successful end, though it may seems we hear less frequent about them often but things were in progress over there, the government does not only focus on bitcoin alone but rather carry other aspect along with how the use of bitcoin could do something worth it in there.
Many of the citizens do not want to sacrifice efforts to help in improving the economic situation of the country,
that's not true, many of the people uses dollar and yet have the alternative one as well which is bitcoin with people in their big numbers making bitcoin payment, transactions while accepting it in their businesses, so here the effort needed from the people is the support in using bitcoin which they are doing already.
One of the things we should understand about El Salvadorans is the fact that there is high rate of poverty in that region and most of the citizens saw the $30 airdrop on their chivo wallet as a means to earn a living and help them and they family and most of the did not take time to utilize the opportunity to own Bitcoin and try the thing out for long term goals.
I can so much relate on what you said, it is true. I am a traveller, I have gone to a country where the citizens see anything from the government as a national cake to be share. There was this program to help local farmers and traders with a loan to be repaid with zero interest and span across a long period of time. The farmers collected the loan and refuse to pay back because they believed it is their money that they collected back.
That could be the same issues with El Salvador, I know that poverty and entitlement mindset. When most of them saw the $30 they quickly converted to fiat and solve immediate problem. Should I blame them? No.
Someone who struggles to get 1 meal a day shouldn't leave $30 lying in their wallet. What if they left it in the wallet, by now it should worth nothing more than $12.
The best way is for the government to continue creating bitcoin awareness campaigns rather than airdrop bitcoin to people who don't know its value.
Not exactly. El Salvador blew it when it gave away the $30 all in one go. It should've rewarded citizens based on participation (like a sort of cashback), not just downloading and installing the wallet
he does that on two motives, one is to help the citizens adapt to the use of bitcoin by having some stash in the wallet so that they can all have a reason more for it engagement, he also do that in other to consider the less privileged and for every single citizens to have at least that little amount to earn a living
Most everyone immediately downloaded the Chivo app. For the first week, I saw about 1/3 using the Chivo wallet. I have seen a handful since. Most people spent it right away. But I do think it is helping with remittances in amounts of $20 - $30 because it removes the 25% transaction fee. Everyone I send to sends me a screenshot and I see "convert to USD" checked.
I would like to be able to receive Bitcoin as change from SuperSelectos, Texaco and other large establishments.
The major problem with the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption presently is the lack of motivation on the side of the citizens and the lack support for the government to help push the Bitcoin project in that country forward. Many of the citizens do not want to sacrifice efforts to help in improving the economic situation of the country, hard it has been that the citizens give the same push to Bitcoin as the governments pushing the level of most of the projects that could have helped salvage the struggling economy of El Salvador at least the country could have been able to push through the Bitcoin bond that could have funded the first government own Bitcoin mining in that country that could have been a source of employment for El Salvadorans.
They would be minding mainly on that free 30 bucks which they could get on downloading that Chivo wallet and would forget it afterwards but there are some might really be that get curious but if
we do tend to compare to those who arent then there's so much difference but still surprisingly the President still pursue on accumulating much bitcoin despite of the current market
condition and the situation in regarding about failed adoption or making it as a legal tender but honestly its just too early to make out some conclusions.
Not exactly. El Salvador blew it when it gave away the $30 all in one go. It should've rewarded citizens based on participation (like a sort of cashback), not just downloading and installing the wallet
he does that on two motives, one is to help the citizens adapt to the use of bitcoin by having some stash in the wallet so that they can all have a reason more for it engagement, he also do that in other to consider the less privileged and for every single citizens to have at least that little amount to earn a living
Most everyone immediately downloaded the Chivo app. For the first week, I saw about 1/3 using the Chivo wallet. I have seen a handful since. Most people spent it right away. But I do think it is helping with remittances in amounts of $20 - $30 because it removes the 25% transaction fee. Everyone I send to sends me a screenshot and I see "convert to USD" checked.
I would like to be able to receive Bitcoin as change from SuperSelectos, Texaco and other large establishments.
The major problem with the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption presently is the lack of motivation on the side of the citizens and the lack support for the government to help push the Bitcoin project in that country forward. Many of the citizens do not want to sacrifice efforts to help in improving the economic situation of the country, hard it has been that the citizens give the same push to Bitcoin as the governments pushing the level of most of the projects that could have helped salvage the struggling economy of El Salvador at least the country could have been able to push through the Bitcoin bond that could have funded the first government own Bitcoin mining in that country that could have been a source of employment for El Salvadorans.
Not exactly. El Salvador blew it when it gave away the $30 all in one go. It should've rewarded citizens based on participation (like a sort of cashback), not just downloading and installing the wallet
he does that on two motives, one is to help the citizens adapt to the use of bitcoin by having some stash in the wallet so that they can all have a reason more for it engagement, he also do that in other to consider the less privileged and for every single citizens to have at least that little amount to earn a living
Most everyone immediately downloaded the Chivo app. For the first week, I saw about 1/3 using the Chivo wallet. I have seen a handful since. Most people spent it right away. But I do think it is helping with remittances in amounts of $20 - $30 because it removes the 25% transaction fee. Everyone I send to sends me a screenshot and I see "convert to USD" checked.
I would like to be able to receive Bitcoin as change from SuperSelectos, Texaco and other large establishments.
The major problem with the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption presently is the lack of motivation on the side of the citizens and the lack support for the government to help push the Bitcoin project in that country forward. Many of the citizens do not want to sacrifice efforts to help in improving the economic situation of the country, hard it has been that the citizens give the same push to Bitcoin as the governments pushing the level of most of the projects that could have helped salvage the struggling economy of El Salvador at least the country could have been able to push through the Bitcoin bond that could have funded the first government own Bitcoin mining in that country that could have been a source of employment for El Salvadorans.
Not exactly. El Salvador blew it when it gave away the $30 all in one go. It should've rewarded citizens based on participation (like a sort of cashback), not just downloading and installing the wallet
he does that on two motives, one is to help the citizens adapt to the use of bitcoin by having some stash in the wallet so that they can all have a reason more for it engagement, he also do that in other to consider the less privileged and for every single citizens to have at least that little amount to earn a living
Most everyone immediately downloaded the Chivo app. For the first week, I saw about 1/3 using the Chivo wallet. I have seen a handful since. Most people spent it right away. But I do think it is helping with remittances in amounts of $20 - $30 because it removes the 25% transaction fee. Everyone I send to sends me a screenshot and I see "convert to USD" checked.
I would like to be able to receive Bitcoin as change from SuperSelectos, Texaco and other large establishments.
Not exactly. El Salvador blew it when it gave away the $30 all in one go. It should've rewarded citizens based on participation (like a sort of cashback), not just downloading and installing the wallet
he does that on two motives, one is to help the citizens adapt to the use of bitcoin by having some stash in the wallet so that they can all have a reason more for it engagement, he also do that in other to consider the less privileged and for every single citizens to have at least that little amount to earn a living, maximize it potential and make profits, invest with it or even has it as one thing the Bukele led administration had done to help an average El-Savadoran, he has the intention to make life easy as the cheapest means for the people, what have you benefited from your own government today?
A slow and steady release of the $30 credit would've been ideal to keep people using the Chivo wallet for BTC transactions
$30 is too small to be expected on bit by bit release, they wouldn't have any thing reasonable they could account for in using the fund, at least it can solve an average man daily needs or rather some can choose to hodl it over a long term as investment to make some earnings.
Maybe El Salvador's government will issue additional rewards to help fix the problem?
no iota of problem was found with the use of bitcoin in El-Savador, so no need for that.
I don't want to agree with you that Bitcoin has failed in El Salvador.
First, they have succeeded in creating some kinda cryptocurrency literacy, and that is a plus for them. I am sure that you can't say you are from that country and you know nothing about Bitcoin.
And we also don't have to agree with you, the failure in question is in the stage of suppressing inflation, this has an impact on the temporary income of bitcoin adoption, but this is not a failure and I'm not sure that they failed miserably in adoption.First, they have succeeded in creating some kinda cryptocurrency literacy, and that is a plus for them. I am sure that you can't say you are from that country and you know nothing about Bitcoin.
On the other hand, due to the volatility of Bitcoin, I think the government may have suffered some lose due to the bad market situation and they have stopped buying the dip for sometime now, other than that, I think they will do well when the market gets better.
True, the loss in question is due to Bitcoin Votality being in a bad market condition, this is a natural thing when bitcoin reacts that way, but again I don't really agree that El Salvador failed in adopting bitcoin 
I don't want to agree with you that Bitcoin has failed in El Salvador.
First, they have succeeded in creating some kinda cryptocurrency literacy, and that is a plus for them. I am sure that you can't say you are from that country and you know nothing about Bitcoin.
On the other hand, due to the volatility of Bitcoin, I think the government may have suffered some lose due to the bad market situation and they have stopped buying the dip for sometime now, other than that, I think they will do well when the market gets better.
First, they have succeeded in creating some kinda cryptocurrency literacy, and that is a plus for them. I am sure that you can't say you are from that country and you know nothing about Bitcoin.
On the other hand, due to the volatility of Bitcoin, I think the government may have suffered some lose due to the bad market situation and they have stopped buying the dip for sometime now, other than that, I think they will do well when the market gets better.
I totally agree with you that they have suffered losses due to massive slump in Bitcoin price which is almost 70% from its ATH but must appreciate that they took the initiative towards adoption which is indeed very risky path. The situation would have been better if Bitcoin winter had not been continued all along 2022. I am sure, things can get better in future when market conditions improve which we might see in mid September if CPI data starts coming down. DYOR
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Of course, the benefits of using Bitcoin are always there. But you can't enjoy the full benefits if most merchants and/or businesses are still using Fiat on top of Bitcoin, right? I would expect both Bitcoin and USD to be used.. and I would expect dollars to be used way more, until people start getting used to bitcoin.. lower usage as compared to the dollar's usage does not even come close to justifying assertions that bitcoin is on the road to failure.
And, sure if there are dollar options available and there are not any costs to transact in dollars, then likely the vast majority of times it would be better to spend dollars first. We also may well know that dollars are overall a less sound (softer) currency, but it does not mean that individuals are going to appreciate idea about which money/asset is more sound merely because the govt says that bitcoin is good....
I would speculate that when the BTC price is going down, there are reasonable impressions that it would be better to hold dollars rather than to hold an asset (bitcoin) that is going down in value.. which surely is correct in the short run but not necessarily correct in the longer duration.. and the more that any of us zoom out the more that we should be able to appreciate historical BTC performance that does not guarantee future results, but should give some ideas as people learn more about the underlying reasons why bitcoin is the soundest of moneys..
The idea of sound money may well not sink in as something that should be considered for people who might not be clear about making evaluations and in terms of how to hold BTC and how much BTC to spend spend and replace or some other ways that might make more sense in terms of personal circumstances regarding how to attempt to manage bitcoin's likely ongoing and likely inevitable volatility that can also be seen in its historical volatility, too.
I don't want to agree with you that Bitcoin has failed in El Salvador.
First, they have succeeded in creating some kinda cryptocurrency literacy, and that is a plus for them. I am sure that you can't say you are from that country and you know nothing about Bitcoin.
On the other hand, due to the volatility of Bitcoin, I think the government may have suffered some lose due to the bad market situation and they have stopped buying the dip for sometime now, other than that, I think they will do well when the market gets better.
First, they have succeeded in creating some kinda cryptocurrency literacy, and that is a plus for them. I am sure that you can't say you are from that country and you know nothing about Bitcoin.
On the other hand, due to the volatility of Bitcoin, I think the government may have suffered some lose due to the bad market situation and they have stopped buying the dip for sometime now, other than that, I think they will do well when the market gets better.
Do you believe that the El Salvador government blew its whole wadd merely because it gave a $30 credit to each of it's citizens in the Chivo wallet?
Do you know if they are not going to issue another credit ? similar amount? smaller amount? How do you know that the issuance of one time was a failure in terms of getting some citizen's aware of bitcoin and maybe they can change the next issuance, in the event that they make another issuance, no?
Do you know if they are not going to issue another credit ? similar amount? smaller amount? How do you know that the issuance of one time was a failure in terms of getting some citizen's aware of bitcoin and maybe they can change the next issuance, in the event that they make another issuance, no?
Not exactly. El Salvador blew it when it gave away the $30 all in one go. It should've rewarded citizens based on participation (like a sort of cashback), not just downloading and installing the wallet. A slow and steady release of the $30 credit would've been ideal to keep people using the Chivo wallet for BTC transactions. Maybe El Salvador's government will issue additional rewards to help fix the problem?
So you are concluding that adoption is currently not good? Are you concluding that some citizens are not benefiting by using and transmitting in bitcoin, including receiving remittances into El Salvador with low fees and without having to worry about the government being hostile to their bitcoin related activities?
I wouldn't say adoption has failed just yet, because it's only been a year since Bitcoin was made legal tender. It's a process that could take months or years, depending on the governments' efforts to build the necessary infrastructure to spur adoption of Bitcoin within the country. Of course, the benefits of using Bitcoin are always there. But you can't enjoy the full benefits if most merchants and/or businesses are still using Fiat on top of Bitcoin, right? Let's give it some time to see what happens as Bitcoin goes more into the mainstream.
According to reports, Bitcoin hasn't altered El Salvador's economic realities, in part due to the protracted "crypto winter" that has plagued the sector since the beginning of 2022.
Secondly, government-held BTC has seen a loss of roughly 60% of its estimated total worth following the most recent market crisis.
Due to Bukele's inability to draw in new cryptocurrency investors and a fall in the number of Salvadorans using Bitcoin, the nation's economy is being drained.
With these results, the Bukele administration's critics charge that it has shortcomings, dubbing it dictatorial and image-focused while raising questions about the practicality of its lofty goals to transform El Salvador.
Secondly, government-held BTC has seen a loss of roughly 60% of its estimated total worth following the most recent market crisis.
Due to Bukele's inability to draw in new cryptocurrency investors and a fall in the number of Salvadorans using Bitcoin, the nation's economy is being drained.
With these results, the Bukele administration's critics charge that it has shortcomings, dubbing it dictatorial and image-focused while raising questions about the practicality of its lofty goals to transform El Salvador.
You sound like you are just making shit up.
If folks decided to look at the whole scenario from the angle of market value we may tend to lose focus as to what we want to become the outcome of this policy as regards its effect on the citizen. And in the present time, El Salvadorans are beginning to be more aware of Bitcoin and how Bitcoin innovation can support small business and personal usage
Freedom of choice is the best option in any democratic country rather than implementation by force, it would have worked better if they had allowed both ( Dollar and Bitcoin to work in parallel). Beside it, I think it didn't work because adoption of Bitcoin could not attract the foreign investment in the country but Bitcoin can not be blamed for it as the conditions in the country are not conducive due to high crime rate and poor economic and financial management. The bitcoin is still considered as store of value and people buy it for investment purpose and rarely used as currency to buy goods and services because its highly volatile.
For Salvadorans, it was not clear why they needed bitcoin. The majority of the population lives very poorly and they do not think about investments, especially investing in cryptocurrency, the main task for them is to feed their families. And it was just as difficult for them to use bitcoin, because of the high volatility, for example, each time refueling the car and having to look at the current price of bitcoin, this is not convenient. While the price in dollars was always stable and it was understandable and familiar.
El-Salvador president's experiment to bet his economic salvation on Bitcoin didn't work out as he hoped it would be but I don't blame him for this failure. He made sincere efforts to adopt it as method of payment but unfortunately rising inflation due to sky rocketing food and fuel prices have increased the trade deficit of all developing economies as well as price of Bitcoin dropped more than 70% and it failed to provide hedge against inflation.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/25/el-salvador-bitcoin-experiment-not-saving-countrys-finances.html
Nothing has failed yet in El-Savador but things are rather going well with them. Infrastructure development worth $203m investment to commence soon in El-Savador's bitcoin beach.
https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1564939590561107968?t=LN5Zybv2gSxqsY_MuZvULg&s=19
https://twitter.com/BTC_Archive/status/1564939590561107968?t=LN5Zybv2gSxqsY_MuZvULg&s=19
Besides the fact that, to me, it's really difficult to understand how someone could say that the bitcoin adoption failed just after a few months (credit card, internet, television... It was the same), it would be great to actually ask these people who protested what bitcoin is and what they're knowledge level is as well:
I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
It was 7 months have passed already by the time he created this thread and maybe for him that was a long time already to make a judgment I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
Surely goes to show you that the theme to this whole thread has quite a bit of disingenuiness - because surely it is possible that El Salvador could end up failing in its attempt to adopt bitcoin and the way that it implemented bitcoin as legal tender.. but surely the extent to which El Salvador is successful or not does have to do with ways in which success failure are measured, while at the same time, the goals/objectives might end up changing too based upon ongoing happenings, learnings and developments.
but I think you are right that it was too early. It would be better if we gave them more time and see if what is the true outcome of this decision. If people on that country start to love bitcoin and like its benefits or the decision is still the same.
I suppose no matter what there are going to be some people who advantage from the implementation of the bitcoin-friendly laws in El Salvador, so then the more profound questions would likely be more granular in terms of attempting to assess various cost benefits and if the policy is continued or if it were to end up being abandoned.. along with one of the BIGGER successorship questions that could be answered in 2024 or it might not get addressed until sometime closer to 2029 (in the event that Bukele were to win another 5 year term from 2024 to 2029 - so we cannot really know some of those dynamics, yet.. and if there is any kind of potential for successorship situation (which seems to always be something that should be accounted for), then it would be nice to see some kind of policy announcement in advance).
About the items that you mentioned above, I don't think they are like bitcoin that is being hated when they first came out because they are so innovative and people like them instantly but for bitcoin? It wasn't the first digital payment method and its origin or use is also complicated for the many.
We should be able to speculate that the longer that bitcoin as legal tender is in place in El Salvador, then the more informed the populace should become in regards to the extent to which they perceive bitcoin to be helpful or harmful to themselves and/or to their country. We should presume that the arguments for and against bitcoin should get better with the passage of time too - even though many of us who have been in the bitcoin space for a decently long period of time likely recognize and appreciate that on an ongoing basis there are seemingly lame anti-bitcoin talking points that get recycled over and over and over - even when the factual basis for such arguments seem to have roots in what was happening in bitcoin in some earlier time (such as 2017), and surely another common theme continues to be the mixing up of arguments related to bitcoin and criticisms of the overall crypto space that seem to convolute and confuse ideas of what is bitcoin versus what is happening in other areas of the crypto (shitcoin) space that may well not be very well connected to bitcoin, and it is possible that El Salvador may be able to keep itself more bitcoin focused in the coming years so that some of the bitcoin versus shitcoin arguments/convolutions would be less applicable in terms of what El Salvador is doing and/or attempting to do with its ongoing implementation and adoption practices.
Besides the fact that, to me, it's really difficult to understand how someone could say that the bitcoin adoption failed just after a few months (credit card, internet, television... It was the same), it would be great to actually ask these people who protested what bitcoin is and what they're knowledge level is as well:
I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
It was 7 months have passed already by the time he created this thread and maybe for him that was a long time already to make a judgment but I think you are right that it was too early. It would be better if we gave them more time and see if what is the true outcome of this decision. If people on that country start to love bitcoin and like its benefits or the decision is still the same.I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
About the items that you mentioned above, I don't think they are like bitcoin that is being hated when they first came out because they are so innovative and people like them instantly but for bitcoin? It wasn't the first digital payment method and its origin or use is also complicated for the many.
Sure the passage of time helps, but I doubt that there needs to be any kind of deadline in which the outside attempts to judge whether or not El Salvador has succeeded or failed in its adoption/implementation of bitcoin laws. Agreeing to some deadline seems to just arbitrarily ascribe some timeline in which certain results need to be achieved blah blah blah.
Did El Salvador give its own timeline in which they would measure success or failure? What are the public discussions? What are the discussions within the administration?
Administrations (such as sovereign nation-states) have quite a bit of discretion in terms of both assigning its own goals and objectives and discretion in terms of how they talk about their goals and objectives (what information they disclose too).
Many of us trying to follow the bitcoin happenings in El Salvador or in any other location likely appreciate transparency in terms of governmental entities sharing information regarding what they are doing, their perceptions of progress, and surely any of us should be attempting to figure out if there is governmentally compiled data in El Salvador that relates to implementation/adoption that could (or should) be shared with the public.
Besides the fact that, to me, it's really difficult to understand how someone could say that the bitcoin adoption failed just after a few months (credit card, internet, television... It was the same), it would be great to actually ask these people who protested what bitcoin is and what they're knowledge level is as well:
I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
It was 7 months have passed already by the time he created this thread and maybe for him that was a long time already to make a judgment but I think you are right that it was too early. It would be better if we gave them more time and see if what is the true outcome of this decision. If people on that country start to love bitcoin and like its benefits or the decision is still the same.I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
About the items that you mentioned above, I don't think they are like bitcoin that is being hated when they first came out because they are so innovative and people like them instantly but for bitcoin? It wasn't the first digital payment method and its origin or use is also complicated for the many.
some feedbacks when we are still on few months which it wont really be that enough or long to see such effect.In speaking about having lack of knowledge then this is where its President does commit out
some mistake and its not really that surprising on why it isnt really getting that much support since people doesnt even know with the basics.They had just launched everything in one go
without having that sufficient knowledge but sooner or later these people would be realizing even with just the basics.
Besides the fact that, to me, it's really difficult to understand how someone could say that the bitcoin adoption failed just after a few months (credit card, internet, television... It was the same), it would be great to actually ask these people who protested what bitcoin is and what they're knowledge level is as well:
I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
It was 7 months have passed already by the time he created this thread and maybe for him that was a long time already to make a judgment but I think you are right that it was too early. It would be better if we gave them more time and see if what is the true outcome of this decision. If people on that country start to love bitcoin and like its benefits or the decision is still the same.I'm pretty sure that 99.9% have absolutely no clue and they're protesting just because someone else told them to protest.
About the items that you mentioned above, I don't think they are like bitcoin that is being hated when they first came out because they are so innovative and people like them instantly but for bitcoin? It wasn't the first digital payment method and its origin or use is also complicated for the many.
It is about math , and the lack of btc supporters that refuse to use math.
I think you're the one not understanding the basic elementary of the mathematics involved here with bitcoin transaction, it transaction cost is customizable, do you know that? for every transaction you made you can choose the cost for that which in many cases are below $1
BTC transaction fees are too high, so no one is stupid enough to use it in everyday purchases.
LN is a failure because it charges 2 onchain transaction fees, plus it's own fees,
ensuring that direct transactions of less than 1000 transactions, it is still cheaper onchain, which is already too high.
LN is a failure because it charges 2 onchain transaction fees, plus it's own fees,
ensuring that direct transactions of less than 1000 transactions, it is still cheaper onchain, which is already too high.
you're wrong, lightening network provide a cheaper transaction charges and are more faster than you could thought of, remember is a transaction off the blockchain also referred to as layer 2 transaction
Only Banks can use LN affordably since they can loop thousands to millions of transactions of offchain to 2 onchain transaction fees.
you're totally getting it all wrong in misconception, how can you in the first place compare a centralized bank with a privacy conscious digital currency like bitcoin and its lightening network?
Adoption of onchain bitcoin is designed to fail
now i think I got the direct impression that you're one of the anti-bitcoiners also referred as the bitcoin antagonist and i rest my case
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