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Topic: 100% Bitcoin will be denied (Read 5697 times)

donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
August 26, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
#75
This is the number one problem actually Gouvernements need to tax otherwise actually system cannot work.

You got it backwards.  Big governments and banks being able to steal is the problem.  Bitcoin is the solution to that problem.

this
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
August 25, 2013, 07:54:40 PM
#74
Dear desired_username,

We've been talking about this transparency thing and heck, i suppose you deserve it.  Besides, our obfuscation campaign is getting frayed around the edges, and intrepid fellows like yourself have already poked it full of holes. 
I guess i might as well come out and say it:  You, citizens, are being raised as feed and chew toys.  For our statist lap poodle, Fifi.
Missis Obama, softhearted as she is, though it best for you not to know, so's you could frolic happily until your number came up (it's 1730867037422, desired_username, we're on 1730257033827, you got plenty of time), but heck, since you asked...
Yes, the chemtrails are real -- we're dispersing an average of 3.7 kilotonnes of MDMA-B into the atmosphere to make your life seem bearable and worth living.  You were right, the fiat currencies of the world are but another vector of distribution for that stuff -- that's why the rich are so darn happy. 
So now you know.

Love,
  The Government.

I'm no conspiracy buff, but isn't there something interesting with the BrainMind Study proposal as well?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/04/02/brain-initiative-challenges-researchers-unlock-mysteries-human-mind
Perhaps sometimes the medium is the massage after all?
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
Free Dog to good home
August 25, 2013, 07:11:06 PM
#73
Government will only deny bitcoin if they do not find a way to tax it properly.

+1
As long as they can get their cut, it should all work out. Somehow.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
August 25, 2013, 03:39:42 PM
#72
Government = RIAA
Bitcoin = Thepiratebay/BitTorrent


That's pretty much how it'll play out.
QFT
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
August 25, 2013, 03:10:00 PM
#71
Government = RIAA
Bitcoin = Thepiratebay/BitTorrent


That's pretty much how it'll play out.
Rez
full member
Activity: 132
Merit: 100
August 25, 2013, 01:44:37 PM
#70
Hi!
Everybody knows what US Federal Reserve is.
It`s a private company issuing US Dollar.
USD is a world currency. And now Bitcoin is going to be a new world currency. Does US Federal Reserve System let it be? Of course, not. Why Bitoinc is legal now? Because it is not yet a dollar    
competitor. Bitcoin is not popular. But in some years bitcoin will be popular more and more, and then US government denies it.

So you're suggesting that they wait until it has substantial adoption and general acceptability in the US and then they ban it? Yeah, that won't stir up a pot of any kind.
sr. member
Activity: 440
Merit: 251
August 25, 2013, 07:45:30 AM
#69
I notice a lot of people have this misconception that because the government can't control Bitcoin, it can't tax us and therefore we will no longer have roads, water, food, medicine, safety, or whatever other social goods they believe can somehow only possibly be provided through coercion.

Let's assume for a moment that every single person has converted to Bitcoins. And let's assume that it's completely impossible to tax people's Bitcoin transactions or confiscate people's Bitcoin wealth.

Okay, so the government will instead tax:  oil, gas, land, imports, exports, copper mining, silver mining, retail purchases at big retailers like WalMart and Amazon, etc etc etc. Amazon still has warehouses full of products, which men with guns can confiscate or lock down in the event that Amazon doesn't pay their tax. FedEx and UPS still have a fleet of vehicles that can be frozen with guns if "shipping tax" isn't paid. Electricity can still be taxed. Etc.

So we may very well be approaching the day that people's individual savings cannot be confiscated (directly or through inflation), nor can their individual revenues be taxed. And that's a very good thing. But that doesn't mean taxes are impossible -- it only means taxes will have to become (slightly) more moral. There are still many physical bottlenecks where taxes can and will be collected.

So for those of you who honestly believe a government monopoly on violence is a "necessary evil" -- who believe coercion must be employed against innocent people for us to have "the roads" -- who believe that having the IRS pick on helpless old widows is the only thing preventing modern society from slipping back into the stone ages: Don't worry, slave, taxation in general will not cease just because individuals have obtained a bit more power over their own personal finances. Your State will continue providing roads and shitty schools.

It's amazing to me how people get deceived in such a statist mindset. If you were to topple the North Korean government, perhaps the people there would ask, "But who will provide tree bark for us to eat, and pots and pans with which to cook our own children?"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S.:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company

The American Letter Mail Company was started by Lysander Spooner in 1844, competing with the legal monopoly of the United States Post Office (USPO, now the USPS) in violation of the Private Express Statutes. It succeeded in delivering mail for lower prices, but the U.S. Government challenged Spooner with legal measures, eventually forcing him to cease operations in 1851.

The American Letter Mail Company was able to reduce the price of its stamps significantly and even offered free local delivery, significantly undercutting the 12-cent stamp being sold by the Post Office Department. The federal government treated this as a criminal act.

Although the business was forced by the U.S. Government to close shop after only a few years, it succeeded in temporarily driving down the cost of government-delivered mail.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin: The People's Bailout
August 24, 2013, 08:39:34 PM
#68
All this talk about "Fair Tax" when the American people themselves are not appalled at the simple fact they have formed themselves into a voting block to pass all their debt onto future generations who, of course, don't vote.

This country's motto during the Revolution was "No Taxation Without Representation!". Few of the politicians today represent anyone other than private interest groups yet alone the unborn who can't kick them out of office because ummmm, well, they aren't born yet :-).

The American people have stood idly by while THEIR representatives upped the debt ceiling every year for the last 60 years and passed it on to the children.

Bitcoin will be the currency of the next generation which have every right, in my opinion, to simply refuse to pay the tax bill for that which they were charged when they were minors. You couldn't legally hold a minor to a contract for a magazine subscription so where is the moral ground for taxing them for something they didn't have representation for?

Well said.  Thanks to Bitcoin, the next revolution isn't going to require the use of force.
full member
Activity: 178
Merit: 100
August 24, 2013, 08:16:57 PM
#67
All this talk about "Fair Tax" when the American people themselves are not appalled at the simple fact they have formed themselves into a voting block to pass all their debt onto future generations who, of course, don't vote.

This country's motto during the Revolution was "No Taxation Without Representation!". Few of the politicians today represent anyone other than private interest groups yet alone the unborn who can't kick them out of office because ummmm, well, they aren't born yet :-).

The American people have stood idly by while THEIR representatives upped the debt ceiling every year for the last 60 years and passed it on to the children.

Bitcoin will be the currency of the next generation which have every right, in my opinion, to simply refuse to pay the tax bill for that which they were charged when they were minors. You couldn't legally hold a minor to a contract for a magazine subscription so where is the moral ground for taxing them for something they didn't have representation for?

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
August 24, 2013, 09:37:26 AM
#66
If the US Government is actually concerned about their "national security" and they realize that Bitcoin can't be stopped, then trying to exclude US miners from mining will only hurt themselves as China & Russia will gobble up most of the coins.

If they were smart, miners would be protected.  Subsidized even.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 24, 2013, 05:58:56 AM
#65
Dear desired_username,

We've been talking about this transparency thing and heck, i suppose you deserve it.  Besides, our obfuscation campaign is getting frayed around the edges, and intrepid fellows like yourself have already poked it full of holes. 
I guess i might as well come out and say it:  You, citizens, are being raised as feed and chew toys.  For our statist lap poodle, Fifi.
Missis Obama, softhearted as she is, though it best for you not to know, so's you could frolic happily until your number came up (it's 1730867037422, desired_username, we're on 1730257033827, you got plenty of time), but heck, since you asked...
Yes, the chemtrails are real -- we're dispersing an average of 3.7 kilotonnes of MDMA-B into the atmosphere to make your life seem bearable and worth living.  You were right, the fiat currencies of the world are but another vector of distribution for that stuff -- that's why the rich are so darn happy. 
So now you know.

Love,
  The Government.
hero member
Activity: 886
Merit: 1013
August 24, 2013, 04:50:43 AM
#64
I can imagine a world where the main organization of people would be local (like a county now). The people could vote through the internet in matters concerning them (even the spending of their local organization).

That way, 100% transparency could be reached and the government would be obsolete. There wouldn't be politicians only experts and scientists and a nice protocol (of course bitcoin would be implemented Smiley ).

As I see the current system is inefficient, easily played and malicious on all levels. We need a shift in thinking as well not just a new currency.

hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 531
Crypto is King.
August 23, 2013, 05:33:43 PM
#63
Hi!
Everybody knows what US Federal Reserve is.
It`s a private company issuing US Dollar.
USD is a world currency. And now Bitcoin is going to be a new world currency. Does US Federal Reserve System let it be? Of course, not. Why Bitoinc is legal now? Because it is not yet a dollar    
competitor. Bitcoin is not popular. But in some years bitcoin will be popular more and more, and then US government denies it.
Of course, nobody can destroy btc network, but it will be illegal. So bitcoin is going to be unaccounted cash (black cash).
Do not even think, Bitcoin can be new world currency Smiley
OBAMA! GTFO OUR FORUM!
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1006
Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952
August 23, 2013, 05:30:48 PM
#62
But US got the strength (army guns knowlage)... Pretend you are in grade school and there is no teachers, who is the boss ? Biggest guys leads and if you dont want to follow them you get hit until you change your mind. Do not forget this

How many guns does it take to destroy the Bitcoin code?
No amount of guns / soldiers will destroy Bitcoin (or any, for that matter) code.
Even in a completely totalitarian state, you still can't guarantee that there isn't a single copy of some code (or some writing/some data generally) in existence.

You can murder people, harass them, blackmail them, terrorize them - none of these things work. And it has been already tried many times thorough the history.

I hope this is the kind of answer you expected.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
August 23, 2013, 04:43:25 PM
#61
I've always like the saying that (basically) BTC is all about the OTHER 6 billion people in the world

Those who think it's all about America have never traveled...  It'll be a while (5 - 10 years) but I hope we can eventually see BTC as a currency and STOP comparing it to dollars...

Actually it is you that looks like he hasn't travelled much. Or if he has he has done so in typical american fashion lecturing the natives about how they should live their lives and not listening one bit to what they have to say.

The US controls the world financial system. They can even make an oil rich country like Iran an outcast that can't legally sell its oil to the world because a) sanctions b) it is blocked from receiving payments via SWIFT which is the standard for international wire transfers. Iran has to resort to barter to sell its oil. Can you imagine barter for billions of dollars of oil? In this day and age?!!

The US can destroy bitcoin if it chooses to do so. But I don't think it wants to do that for a number of reasons:

1) Bitcoin will spur innovation in finance and that is good for the US economy.

2) Bitcoin transactions are all public so its a rich source of data for the government including the taxmen. It just needs some clever algorithms to mine that data.

So let's hope that I am right and the US isn't out to destroy bitcoin and just wants to regulate i.e. control it.

Don't forget:
3) The US government owns all the ISP data through its surveillance network and can match your ISP to your IP to your wallet trivially.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 23, 2013, 01:23:43 PM
#60
A decentralized cryptocurrency becoming international standard will indeed be against the interest of the US and some other governments. They'll find some reasons to suppress it's adoption.

That's one of the reasons why I'm pessimistic about the future of cryptocurrencies.

It's true, but the reasons for optimism are much greater than the pessimistic ones. The more they act towards Bitcoin users like they are towards whistleblowers right now ("drone them, cage them, trans-gender them"), then we know they're truly scared. The UK government said they arrested David Miranda under Anti-Terror legislation to "protect the public from terrorist threats", and they can use that form of very indirect causality logic to arrest, well, just about anyone doing anything. Arrest dogs for being potential suicide bomb mules, arrest restaurant waitresses for "providing a means of sustenance to a suspicious Sikh", arrest the parents of fracking protesters for "failing to prevent or report an act of terror". Take your pick.

These people are shit scared that the public will start scratching their heads en masse.

In other words:
1. Governments already arrest & abuse their citizenry without showing reasonable cause or bothering with convincing logic.
2. They might arrest dogs, by claiming they're suicide bombers.
3.  ? ? ?
4.  They must be running scared, we win!!1!

Lawd have mercy, what would those yeller-bellied bastard do if they weren't scared Shocked
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
August 23, 2013, 01:19:48 PM
#59
But US got the strength (army guns knowlage)... Pretend you are in grade school and there is no teachers, who is the boss ? Biggest guys leads and if you dont want to follow them you get hit until you change your mind. Do not forget this

How many guns does it take to destroy the Bitcoin code?

How many wars has the US lost? Think a civil war against the government would be any prettier?

Nobody wins wars.  The US has only created more enemies for themselves.
Although those that fight always lose, the private central banks usually win them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 23, 2013, 01:14:46 PM
#58
But US got the strength (army guns knowlage)... Pretend you are in grade school and there is no teachers, who is the boss ? Biggest guys leads and if you dont want to follow them you get hit until you change your mind. Do not forget this

How many guns does it take to destroy the Bitcoin code?

How many wars has the US lost? Think a civil war against the government would be any prettier?

Nobody wins wars.  The US has only created more enemies for themselves.
hero member
Activity: 824
Merit: 712
August 23, 2013, 01:09:44 PM
#57
Yes, they must depend on what you earn.. How can you ask a citizen earning 10 to pay 5 and also ask another citizen who earns 5.5 to pay the same amount. What about a person unemployed? How can he pay 5? That's the principle of progressive taxation, the one earning 10 will pay more than the one earning 5, so that the unemployed can still receive some services even if he cannot pay taxes.

There is another way.  Take a look at http://www.fairtax.org/
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
August 23, 2013, 11:44:25 AM
#56
So, even in a perfect world where BTC is the only currency, don't you think there should be a way to let everyone pay their taxes? Then HOW, that's the tricky part! Directly - you pay depending on what you earn - this could be done by your employer OR indirectly -you pay when you consume - like VAT? Dunno... Smiley      

Why do taxes have to depend on what you earn? Why not just have a simple system where everybody owes the same amount of money every year, wouldn't that be more fair?

The how of paying taxes with bitcoins is really easy: the government sends each citizen a bitcoin payment address, they send the bitcoins owed to that address.

You are sort of missing the big picture here.  Bitcoin is transformative in the realm of public works expenses.

Bitcoin would be MUCH better for taxes/community purchasing.  A community could very easily use highly granular micropayments for services used, and provide greater transparency for costs and payments for those.  
It could entirely obsolete the very stupid broad-brush taxation schemes currently used like VAT, Income tax, inheritance tax and the rest by making fee for service more pervasive.  These census based headcount taxations are thousands of years old and very obsolete with the diverse tapestry of humanity today.
It would also allow for better transparency into the government accounting if we forced non-anonymity on the government money uses and required our governments to use cryptocurrencies.

We are at the very early days yet, but the potentials are truly amazing.
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