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Topic: 100% Bitcoin will be denied - page 3. (Read 5697 times)

hero member
Activity: 593
Merit: 505
Wherever I may roam
August 22, 2013, 06:16:08 PM
#35

Guys, I do not understand this thing and I keep on reading it here over and over again. So many people celebrating the fact that the State cannot tax bitcoins and shouting proudly "They cannot tax it, it's anonymous!!"

.. Let's imagine for a second that all the different currencies disappear and there is only BTC..

If a Government is not able to tax your earnings (which will be in BTC, remember, it's the only currency you have), how is anything going to work? Who's paying for any public service, for your roads, water, trash, schools, etc.?

If by any means anyone want BTC to succeed and become mainstream, it MUST be taxed as any other currency.
Which could be difficult or not, but that's another topic...

Have you ever wondered how taxes worked back before we had electronic currencies, back when everybody used cash? How could that possibly work? The answer is that taxes do not derive from people using USD, they are derived from people REPORTING their own tax liabilities. People can fill out tax forms for earnings in bitcoins just like the filled out tax forms for earnings in dollars.

Is trash a public service? Seems perfectly reasonable to expect people to pay a company to come take their trash away (at my previous residence I used this setup, my current residence has city-run trash pickup (but you can look at a city as just a company which provides services within a geographical region)).

Is water a public service? I pay the water company, they make water available to me, so no need for taxes.

I understand what you mean and I tend to agree in principle. Maybe I didn't explain properly what I meant: what I don't agree with, is hearing people seeing bitcoins as a way not to pay taxes. And they think this is a smart move, not understanding that by not paying taxes, they penalise the honest ones.

I love bitcoins because I can store my money, pay for goods, transfer money to other people WITHOUT making banks reacher (along with other good and ethic reasons), not because by using them I could potentially avoid to pay taxes thus forcing someone else to pay more..
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
August 22, 2013, 05:49:13 PM
#34

Guys, I do not understand this thing and I keep on reading it here over and over again. So many people celebrating the fact that the State cannot tax bitcoins and shouting proudly "They cannot tax it, it's anonymous!!"

.. Let's imagine for a second that all the different currencies disappear and there is only BTC..

If a Government is not able to tax your earnings (which will be in BTC, remember, it's the only currency you have), how is anything going to work? Who's paying for any public service, for your roads, water, trash, schools, etc.?

If by any means anyone want BTC to succeed and become mainstream, it MUST be taxed as any other currency.
Which could be difficult or not, but that's another topic...

Have you ever wondered how taxes worked back before we had electronic currencies, back when everybody used cash? How could that possibly work? The answer is that taxes do not derive from people using USD, they are derived from people REPORTING their own tax liabilities. People can fill out tax forms for earnings in bitcoins just like the filled out tax forms for earnings in dollars.

Is trash a public service? Seems perfectly reasonable to expect people to pay a company to come take their trash away (at my previous residence I used this setup, my current residence has city-run trash pickup (but you can look at a city as just a company which provides services within a geographical region)).

Is water a public service? I pay the water company, they make water available to me, so no need for taxes.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
August 22, 2013, 05:45:26 PM
#33
Everybody knows what US Federal Reserve is.
It`s a private company issuing US Dollar.

People need to stop repeating that the Fed is a private company. It is just another government department, like the hundreds of others which are semi-autonomous.

It pays 100% of its profits to the US Treasury.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/federal-reserve-record-profit_n_2884366.html

In January 2011 the Fed amended its accounting practices so that it can never become bankrupt. 100% of its losses will get dumped onto the US treasury as well. Losses which will occur on its long bond exit strategy.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/creative-accounting-makes-fed-insolvency-impossible
hero member
Activity: 593
Merit: 505
Wherever I may roam
August 22, 2013, 05:31:39 PM
#32
Government will only deny bitcoin if they do not find a way to tax it properly.

Which they won't, unless it becomes centralized.

Guys, I do not understand this thing and I keep on reading it here over and over again. So many people celebrating the fact that the State cannot tax bitcoins and shouting proudly "They cannot tax it, it's anonymous!!"

.. Let's imagine for a second that all the different currencies disappear and there is only BTC..

If a Government is not able to tax your earnings (which will be in BTC, remember, it's the only currency you have), how is anything going to work? Who's paying for any public service, for your roads, water, trash, schools, etc.?

If by any means anyone want BTC to succeed and become mainstream, it MUST be taxed as any other currency.
Which could be difficult or not, but that's another topic...
If it were to be taxed just like any other currency, then it would be just another currency. It would loose it's purpose entirely.

Ok, still you have not replied to my question! I don't understand the assumption taxes=evil ... For sure there are detestable and often unfair taxes, I agree on this, still I cannot imagine a world where citizens don't agree on giving something for the common good.
The bottom line is, the more mainstream bitcoins become, the more obvious it is that we should pay taxes on them.
And going back to the example I made, in that case it wouldn't be just another currency, it would be the only (or the main) currency.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
August 22, 2013, 05:28:47 PM
#31
If a Government is not able to tax your earnings (which will be in BTC, remember, it's the only currency you have), how is anything going to work? Who's paying for any public service, for your roads, water, trash, schools, etc.?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+to+pay+for+roads+without+a+government#
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+to+pay+for+water+without+a+government#
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+to+pay+for+trash+without+a+government#
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+to+pay+for+education+without+a+government#
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
August 22, 2013, 05:16:14 PM
#30
Government will only deny bitcoin if they do not find a way to tax it properly.

Which they won't, unless it becomes centralized.

Guys, I do not understand this thing and I keep on reading it here over and over again. So many people celebrating the fact that the State cannot tax bitcoins and shouting proudly "They cannot tax it, it's anonymous!!"

.. Let's imagine for a second that all the different currencies disappear and there is only BTC..

If a Government is not able to tax your earnings (which will be in BTC, remember, it's the only currency you have), how is anything going to work? Who's paying for any public service, for your roads, water, trash, schools, etc.?

If by any means anyone want BTC to succeed and become mainstream, it MUST be taxed as any other currency.
Which could be difficult or not, but that's another topic...

If it were to be taxed just like any other currency, then it would be just another currency. It would loose it's purpose entirely.
hero member
Activity: 593
Merit: 505
Wherever I may roam
August 22, 2013, 04:53:38 PM
#29
Government will only deny bitcoin if they do not find a way to tax it properly.

Which they won't, unless it becomes centralized.

Guys, I do not understand this thing and I keep on reading it here over and over again. So many people celebrating the fact that the State cannot tax bitcoins and shouting proudly "They cannot tax it, it's anonymous!!"

.. Let's imagine for a second that all the different currencies disappear and there is only BTC..

If a Government is not able to tax your earnings (which will be in BTC, remember, it's the only currency you have), how is anything going to work? Who's paying for any public service, for your roads, water, trash, schools, etc.?

If by any means anyone want BTC to succeed and become mainstream, it MUST be taxed as any other currency.
Which could be difficult or not, but that's another topic...
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
August 22, 2013, 04:49:39 PM
#28
How many wars has the US lost?

Every one we have been in since WWII... Sad

That is a stretch to say the US lost every war. Nobody would say they lost when they fought to free Kuwait in the 90's.

I've heard it said that the conflict began when the US cajoled the Kuwaitis into draining Iraqi oilfields covertly from just across the border. Difficult to prove, but let's get real from now on: there is so much evidence that Western governments provoke conflicts, then propagandise whichever version of "who started it" to suit their agenda.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1001
August 22, 2013, 04:35:55 PM
#27
But US got the strength (army guns knowlage)... Pretend you are in grade school and there is no teachers, who is the boss ? Biggest guys leads and if you dont want to follow them you get hit until you change your mind. Do not forget this

How many guns does it take to destroy the Bitcoin code?

How many wars has the US lost?

Almost all of them... and by some measure, absolutely all of them  Cheesy
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
WINSTARS - We are changing the face of gambling
August 22, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
#26
How many wars has the US lost?

Every one we have been in since WWII... Sad

Sorry to burst your patriotic bubble, but even though the US likes to claim victory in their wars, winning is very subjective..

Some questionable "victories" include the Korean War, Vietnam War and the most recent War in Iraq.

As for completely lost causes to anyone with a moderately open mind are the long War on Drugs and the more recent War on "Terror"

I am not scared of the US attacking the crypto currencies, being it on. As soon as they start fighting for real, they've already lost.

Ummm, I said we lost every war since WW2... but thanks? Huh

Lol, sorry misread it xD. Never mind then <3
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
August 22, 2013, 03:28:06 PM
#25
How many wars has the US lost?

Every one we have been in since WWII... Sad

That is a stretch to say the US lost every war. Nobody would say they lost when they fought to free Kuwait in the 90's.

True, but I still view all of the wars in the Middle East as a pretty big failure.  Shield and Storm happened when I was in grade school, so I don't have much of an opinion on them.  OIF/OEF/OND were all failures in my eyes, though.  Korea and Vietnam were obviously failures as was the Cold "War".

In fact, to say that the US lost any war is not true either.  They just haven't won many lately, probably because we are fighting wars for other countries.  
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
August 22, 2013, 03:14:18 PM
#24
The government may not like BTC, but what can they do against all it's users worldwide? How can one take over control? IT'S DECENTRALIZED!
Rather than the government, people should be worrying about the mining hardware race that's going on. That's something that could really end BTC for good.
But even in that case, not everything would be lost, we would still have litecoins (until they develop some ASIC for scrypt).

DECENTRALIZATION is what makes BTC what it is. Once we have fewer and fewer users in control of it, it's fundaments will have gone forgoten, and so it will become another history's footnote.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
August 22, 2013, 02:53:01 PM
#23
How many wars has the US lost?

Every one we have been in since WWII... Sad

That is a stretch to say the US lost every war. Nobody would say they lost when they fought to free Kuwait in the 90's.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
August 22, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
#22
How many wars has the US lost?

Every one we have been in since WWII... Sad

Sorry to burst your patriotic bubble, but even though the US likes to claim victory in their wars, winning is very subjective..

Some questionable "victories" include the Korean War, Vietnam War and the most recent War in Iraq.

As for completely lost causes to anyone with a moderately open mind are the long War on Drugs and the more recent War on "Terror"

I am not scared of the US attacking the crypto currencies, being it on. As soon as they start fighting for real, they've already lost.

Ummm, I said we lost every war since WW2... but thanks? Huh
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
WINSTARS - We are changing the face of gambling
August 22, 2013, 01:39:00 PM
#21
How many wars has the US lost?

Every one we have been in since WWII... Sad

Sorry to burst your patriotic bubble, but even though the US likes to claim victory in their wars, winning is very subjective..

Some questionable "victories" include the Korean War, Vietnam War and the most recent War in Iraq.

As for completely lost causes to anyone with a moderately open mind are the long War on Drugs and the more recent War on "Terror"

I am not scared of the US attacking the crypto currencies, being it on. As soon as they start fighting for real, they've already lost.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
August 22, 2013, 12:23:23 PM
#20
Hi!
Everybody knows what US Federal Reserve is.
It`s a private company issuing US Dollar.
USD is a world currency. And now Bitcoin is going to be a new world currency. Does US Federal Reserve System let it be? Of course, not. Why Bitoinc is legal now? Because it is not yet a dollar    
competitor. Bitcoin is not popular. But in some years bitcoin will be popular more and more, and then US government denies it.
Of course, nobody can destroy btc network, but it will be illegal. So bitcoin is going to be unaccounted cash (black cash).
Do not even think, Bitcoin can be new world currency Smiley

well, why are you so sure?
I understand where you're coming from, and I don't expect bitcoin to become the new WORLD currency, but it does have a bright future in my opinion.
maybe just vor 5 years, but whatever
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin: The People's Bailout
August 22, 2013, 12:10:15 PM
#19
This is the number one problem actually Gouvernements need to tax otherwise actually system cannot work.

You got it backwards.  Big governments and banks being able to steal is the problem.  Bitcoin is the solution to that problem.
hero member
Activity: 811
Merit: 1000
Web Developer
August 22, 2013, 12:02:02 PM
#18
But US got the strength (army guns knowlage)... Pretend you are in grade school and there is no teachers, who is the boss ? Biggest guys leads and if you dont want to follow them you get hit until you change your mind. Do not forget this

How many guns does it take to destroy the Bitcoin code?

How many wars has the US lost? Think a civil war against the government would be any prettier?

I don't this the US government is that foolish (yeah I said it), making Bitcoin illegal will do nothing and they know this.  They would attack it with other means, this has been discussed thousands of times.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
August 22, 2013, 12:01:56 PM
#17
I've always like the saying that (basically) BTC is all about the OTHER 6 billion people in the world

Those who think it's all about America have never traveled...  It'll be a while (5 - 10 years) but I hope we can eventually see BTC as a currency and STOP comparing it to dollars...
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
August 22, 2013, 12:01:43 PM
#16
I learned in kindergarten today that the U.S. is not the world.   Shocked
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