Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 123. (Read 2591920 times)
November 25, 2015, 04:04:12 PM
They never come alone...
November 25, 2015, 03:52:54 PM
BLOCK!! 
Bugger me. That was a marathon.
Bugger me. That was a marathon.
November 25, 2015, 10:55:18 AM
Not that I expect a reply, but can't hurt to spell it out for the Reddit folks.
LOL....Reddit users quite often need things spelling out for them - they're not the sharpest tools in the shed
Nice post there though windpath, well done. Like you say, don't hold your breath for a reply though
November 25, 2015, 10:00:06 AM
Thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/
Quote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/cxclws3
Not that I expect a reply, but can't hurt to spell it out for the Reddit folks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/
Quote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3u7sk2/balaji_s_srinivasan_on_twitter_we_have_a_way_to/cxclws3
Quote
As the provider of the primary source of data for P2Pool miners (http://minefast.coincadence.com), the owner of p2pool.org, and someone who has been active with the P2Pool community for a while I would love to hear how 21 Inc. plans to roll out "P2Pool v2".
P2Pool's biggest strength is it's open source, trust-less and decentralized nature, preserving those traits should be the number 1 priority.
Other large operations (Bitmain Tech) have claimed to be rolling out a new version of P2Pool in the past, but as it turned out they just wanted to capitalize on the good will associated with P2Pool's name for their marketing message while continuing to run a closed, centralized mining pool. I certainly hope that is not the case with 21 Inc.
P2Pool is simply awesome, and I'd like as much as anyone to see it continue to grow, however there are some real challenges that need to be solved for it to be a decentralized, trust-less solution for miners around the world. Some pretty smart folks have been thinking about that problems for a while and the solution has yet to be discovered/invented.
I look forward to hearing Balaji's plan to address those problems.
P2Pool's biggest strength is it's open source, trust-less and decentralized nature, preserving those traits should be the number 1 priority.
Other large operations (Bitmain Tech) have claimed to be rolling out a new version of P2Pool in the past, but as it turned out they just wanted to capitalize on the good will associated with P2Pool's name for their marketing message while continuing to run a closed, centralized mining pool. I certainly hope that is not the case with 21 Inc.
P2Pool is simply awesome, and I'd like as much as anyone to see it continue to grow, however there are some real challenges that need to be solved for it to be a decentralized, trust-less solution for miners around the world. Some pretty smart folks have been thinking about that problems for a while and the solution has yet to be discovered/invented.
I look forward to hearing Balaji's plan to address those problems.
Not that I expect a reply, but can't hurt to spell it out for the Reddit folks.
November 25, 2015, 09:55:20 AM
Sorry guys, it's my fault. I finally got my rig stable. Of course there's no blocks...
What was the problem in the end?
November 25, 2015, 09:46:36 AM
Oh, well now that you've managed to stabilize your rig we should expect to see the blocks rolling in any minute now. About damn time you got that sorted 
.
. 
November 25, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
Sorry guys, it's my fault. I finally got my rig stable. Of course there's no blocks...
November 25, 2015, 09:08:51 AM
LOL... ultimate goal is p2pool v2. Where have we heard that line of crap before? I've got a lot of "ultimate goals", too. If I state them, do they automatically become a reality?
November 25, 2015, 08:54:10 AM
21 Inc CEO:
"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952
"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952
That is indeed good to hear! However, after the bitmain debacle regarding their supposed version & support of p2pool - I'm a little wary to say the least. After all, 21 Inc. is a business, & businesses don't do anything if there's no money to be made doing it.
If I used twatter - I'd follow him though
November 25, 2015, 08:51:42 AM
21 Inc CEO:
"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952
I'll believe him when he explains the solutions to the p2pool issues."ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952
There's a lot of marketing in that area of the bitcoin world that has nothing to do with reality.
November 25, 2015, 08:47:37 AM
21 Inc CEO:
"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952
"ultimate goal is basically "p2pool v2"."
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/669446465840893952
November 25, 2015, 08:45:03 AM
Wow, I think this is the most active this thread has been in months...
Any Antminer that has not been updated to use some version of mainline cgminer will not submit stale shares. This is bad, because those stale shares can be valid block solutions that p2pool would happily submit. Kano, where do you get the 95% number you've provided? Maybe you could provide a definition of a stale share and how cgminer determines if a share is stale as I'm sure people would find the information useful.
...
p2pool share chain shares average 30sAny Antminer that has not been updated to use some version of mainline cgminer will not submit stale shares. This is bad, because those stale shares can be valid block solutions that p2pool would happily submit. Kano, where do you get the 95% number you've provided? Maybe you could provide a definition of a stale share and how cgminer determines if a share is stale as I'm sure people would find the information useful.
...
bitcoin network blocks average 600s
thus 1/20 of stale shares are at the same time as a bitcoin network block change
thus 19/20 of stale shares are not at the same time as a bitcoin network block change
thus 95% of stale p2pool blocks are valid bitcoin network blocks
...
Now, if instead you are implying that losing such blocks is rare ... you are mistaken.
95% of stale share blocks on p2pool are valid bitcoin network blocks.
That is the reason why forrestv changed p2pool to submit stale share blocks to bitcoind when we pointed out the problem to him.
How often do these stale share blocks occur?
At least as often as any p2pool blocks that don't appear in the p2pool share chain (Edit: these are the stale share blocks)
...
Now, if instead you are implying that losing such blocks is rare ... you are mistaken.
95% of stale share blocks on p2pool are valid bitcoin network blocks.
That is the reason why forrestv changed p2pool to submit stale share blocks to bitcoind when we pointed out the problem to him.
How often do these stale share blocks occur?
At least as often as any p2pool blocks that don't appear in the p2pool share chain (Edit: these are the stale share blocks)
...
Edit: but I should also add, that since a high % of share chain shares are stale (10%?) then that would mean that 10% of blocks found on p2pool would be stale share chain shares
So since 95% of them are actually valid bitcoin network blocks, then that would put the figure around 9.5% of p2pool blocks.
November 25, 2015, 08:38:48 AM
Wow, I think this is the most active this thread has been in months...
Any Antminer that has not been updated to use some version of mainline cgminer will not submit stale shares. This is bad, because those stale shares can be valid block solutions that p2pool would happily submit. Kano, where do you get the 95% number you've provided? Maybe you could provide a definition of a stale share and how cgminer determines if a share is stale as I'm sure people would find the information useful.
@notbatman, I don't think I'd go blaming the XT guys for the run of bad luck. And you're the second or third person in the past few days to talk about orphaned blocks. P2Pool has not had an orphaned block since January 7th of this year. Maybe other pools are having a string of orphans, but that is definitely not the case here.
@BlInK311, you can manually call getblocktemplate, pick a nonce and apply the SHA256 hash to the data. If you picked correctly, you put that hash into the block template and submit your block. Good luck! (Yes, I GROSSLY oversimplified that description).
Any Antminer that has not been updated to use some version of mainline cgminer will not submit stale shares. This is bad, because those stale shares can be valid block solutions that p2pool would happily submit. Kano, where do you get the 95% number you've provided? Maybe you could provide a definition of a stale share and how cgminer determines if a share is stale as I'm sure people would find the information useful.
@notbatman, I don't think I'd go blaming the XT guys for the run of bad luck. And you're the second or third person in the past few days to talk about orphaned blocks. P2Pool has not had an orphaned block since January 7th of this year. Maybe other pools are having a string of orphans, but that is definitely not the case here.
@BlInK311, you can manually call getblocktemplate, pick a nonce and apply the SHA256 hash to the data. If you picked correctly, you put that hash into the block template and submit your block. Good luck! (Yes, I GROSSLY oversimplified that description).
November 25, 2015, 08:35:26 AM
You honestly believe the 'Thirty Day' luck of 46.84% is due to S7 firmware?
I think spreading that opinion is damaging to the p2pool project. Not sure why you would perpetuate that as a realistic cause. I am not sticking up for Bitmain and I would like to see improved firmware as much as the next guy (submitting stales is obviously an improvement and I believe you are the best person for the job). I also believe they should be sending you and -ck free units of any hardware that takes advantage of cgminer. Same goes for Avalon and any others as well. However, let's be honest. Stale shares are not the cause for a >50% reduction of luck over the last 30 days.
EDIT:
See what statements like that lead people to believe:
The point of my comment is that indeed using the S7 with crappy firmware can lose blocks and reduce the luck (and payouts)I think spreading that opinion is damaging to the p2pool project. Not sure why you would perpetuate that as a realistic cause. I am not sticking up for Bitmain and I would like to see improved firmware as much as the next guy (submitting stales is obviously an improvement and I believe you are the best person for the job). I also believe they should be sending you and -ck free units of any hardware that takes advantage of cgminer. Same goes for Avalon and any others as well. However, let's be honest. Stale shares are not the cause for a >50% reduction of luck over the last 30 days.
EDIT:
could this be the cause of the recent bad luck?
The answer is 'Yes'See what statements like that lead people to believe:
You honestly believe the 'Thirty Day' luck of 46.84% is due to S7 firmware?
not only S7 but all antminer which is not changed with "ck cgminer".wariner's comment is correct also - all antminers with crappy firmware versions can lose p2pool blocks and reduce the luck.
Obviously that's "next to" (but not completely) impossible to be the cause of all of the 50% lost luck.
Obviously, however, it can and will affect the luck if lots of people mine with said problematic hardware.
November 25, 2015, 08:11:32 AM
Can you explain please
EDIT: By the way this would be a total and utter massive waste of money. Even if all the scalability problems were addressed AND a solution was found for the variance problem, there are no miners left to attract. The sad truth is personal miners are an increasingly irrelevant entity and what little hashrate they have cannot save any small pool. Only farms are relevant today.
I am a small miner (3x s5) what should I do? abandon p2pool??!! I hope for a solution ... I will offer 0.29btc for one of your hours when and if it will be necessary, p2pool must not die..
I did not say to abandon p2pool in its current form, I just do not see it changing from what it currently is. It is also not my place to recommend you do something else on the p2pool thread. By the way... what is your magic number? You state, "...it would cost you a fortune to pay me...". Define fortune 
.
Writing in c is very labour intensive (compared to python) so it's a lot of hours work. I charge less for free software than private software since I like to encourage free software use as much as possible. At current exchange rates I charge .29 btc/hr for free soft and .38 for private software. A rough estimate of the time required to rewrite p2pool in c (properly) would be 500 hours work. That's around 150 BTC..EDIT: By the way this would be a total and utter massive waste of money. Even if all the scalability problems were addressed AND a solution was found for the variance problem, there are no miners left to attract. The sad truth is personal miners are an increasingly irrelevant entity and what little hashrate they have cannot save any small pool. Only farms are relevant today.
I am a small miner (3x s5) what should I do? abandon p2pool??!! I hope for a solution ... I will offer 0.29btc for one of your hours when and if it will be necessary, p2pool must not die..
November 25, 2015, 08:06:49 AM
could this be the cause of the recent bad luck?
No.
The answer is 'Yes'
Any lost blocks will attribute to a lower 'pool luck'.
It's a lost block, it affects what is (incorrectly) referred to as 'pool luck'
So if there have been any (which no one will actually know) then it would have effected the 'p2pool luck'
Well, I 'could' manually solve the next two blocks in a row by typing in hashes. However, I wouldn't go around saying that to people who might not understand the odds.
How/where can I submit manual hashes? That sounds like fun. After 3 submissions I'm sure I'd give up.
November 25, 2015, 07:30:00 AM
Submitting stale shares can only improve hash rate by 2-3% at most. Can't see that causing the current run of bad luck.
If I had to guess I'd say its team XT and their memory abusing spam attack on core causing orphaned blocks. That combined with increasing difficulty.
If I had to guess I'd say its team XT and their memory abusing spam attack on core causing orphaned blocks. That combined with increasing difficulty.
November 25, 2015, 04:23:50 AM
You honestly believe the 'Thirty Day' luck of 46.84% is due to S7 firmware?
...
Where did I say that? ...
November 25, 2015, 03:42:06 AM
You honestly believe the 'Thirty Day' luck of 46.84% is due to S7 firmware?
not only S7 but all antminer which is not changed with "ck cgminer".
Quote
However, let's be honest. Stale shares are not the cause for a >50% reduction of luck over the last 30 days.
Do you have other ideas?
November 25, 2015, 03:31:43 AM
You honestly believe the 'Thirty Day' luck of 46.84% is due to S7 firmware?
I think spreading that opinion is damaging to the p2pool project. Not sure why you would perpetuate that as a realistic cause. I am not sticking up for Bitmain and I would like to see improved firmware as much as the next guy (submitting stales is obviously an improvement and I believe you are the best person for the job). I also believe they should be sending you and -ck free units of any hardware that takes advantage of cgminer. Same goes for Avalon and any others as well. However, let's be honest. Stale shares are not the cause for a >50% reduction of luck over the last 30 days.
EDIT:
See what statements like that lead people to believe:
I think spreading that opinion is damaging to the p2pool project. Not sure why you would perpetuate that as a realistic cause. I am not sticking up for Bitmain and I would like to see improved firmware as much as the next guy (submitting stales is obviously an improvement and I believe you are the best person for the job). I also believe they should be sending you and -ck free units of any hardware that takes advantage of cgminer. Same goes for Avalon and any others as well. However, let's be honest. Stale shares are not the cause for a >50% reduction of luck over the last 30 days.
EDIT:
could this be the cause of the recent bad luck?
The answer is 'Yes'See what statements like that lead people to believe:
You honestly believe the 'Thirty Day' luck of 46.84% is due to S7 firmware?
not only S7 but all antminer which is not changed with "ck cgminer".Jump to: