[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 450.

lenny_

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DARKNETMARKETS.COM

Rules has been changed in last Bitcoin version 0.8.6. Maximum free transaction size is now 3 KB not 10 KB.
Also, all outputs of 0.01 BTC rule also have been removed.

Please read 0.8.6 changelog: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.8.6/README.txt/download

Code:

- Remove the all-outputs-must-be-greater-than-CENT-to-qualify-as-free rule for relaying
  (see https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/7670433#086-relaying)

- Lower maximum size for free transaction creation
  (see https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/7670433#086-wallet)

smooth

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Quote from: kjj on January 06, 2014, 01:16:18 AM

He means when you spend them later. The payments to you are indeed generation transactions and have no fees. Current payout for a single active share is something like 0.0045 BTC. A spend of 1 BTC using them will be like 50kb or something, and will need some fees.

You can avoid these under the current rules if you a really really careful about how you construct the transactions, or at least minimize them given slightly less care. The bitcoin wiki has some examples. The standard client probably won't construct the transactions the right way though.

EDIT: I thought it had examples, but now I can't find the page. The gist of it is that you need to keep the transactions under 10kb and make sure that all outputs are >0.01. In practice this means not having a change output and it might mean having one large input along with the small ones you are aggregating. It might take multiple transactions but as long as each is under 10kb, you're fine. You might then need a fee to spend the entire amount because the outputs of the initial transactions aren't "mature" but the fee will be a reasonable percentage.

kjj

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Quote from: spooderman on January 06, 2014, 01:04:59 AM

Quote from: mitty on January 05, 2014, 08:00:02 PM

It's been a while since I've used p2pool but I believe the payout system is PPLNS (Pay per last N shares). I don't think decentralized CPPSRBP is currently possible because there'd have to be some way to manage a pool wallet for when there's a surplus from a block reward/pay from it when needed and doing this in a decentralized manner would be very difficult.

The advantage of p2pool is decentralization/not trusting a centralized pool operator and helping the Bitcoin network by running a 24/7 full node. I'd recommend not using p2pool with a small hashrate because your payouts will be tiny and cost a lot to spend in terms of transaction fees.

do p2pool payouts unavoidably incur transaction fees? I don't understand enough about it to know for myself. If I am directly getting the mined coins that shouldn't happen right? A fee to me implies that someone is paying me a tiny amount. Thanks for your response btw. I'll probably stay on eligius, even though I do greatly want to help the network health. Ghash and guild should have 5% between them. Not over half.

He means when you spend them later. The payments to you are indeed generation transactions and have no fees. Current payout for a single active share is something like 0.0045 BTC. A spend of 1 BTC using them will be like 50kb or something, and will need some fees.

spooderman

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Quote from: mitty on January 05, 2014, 08:00:02 PM

Quote from: spooderman on January 05, 2014, 11:50:08 AM

I would like to start mining here. Honestly though, all I have is 6.5GH to offer. Is there any point (as opposed to continuing on eligius)? And, if someone would be so kind, could you please tell me how the payout works? It's obviously not PPS, and I guess the CPPSRBP that I've grown to love with eligius is also not offered (is this not a possibility here, given that this method prevents the pool from ever paying out more than it can? Or would this jeopardize the pools decentralization?)

Thknas, spodermen

It's been a while since I've used p2pool but I believe the payout system is PPLNS (Pay per last N shares). I don't think decentralized CPPSRBP is currently possible because there'd have to be some way to manage a pool wallet for when there's a surplus from a block reward/pay from it when needed and doing this in a decentralized manner would be very difficult.

The advantage of p2pool is decentralization/not trusting a centralized pool operator and helping the Bitcoin network by running a 24/7 full node. I'd recommend not using p2pool with a small hashrate because your payouts will be tiny and cost a lot to spend in terms of transaction fees.

do p2pool payouts unavoidably incur transaction fees? I don't understand enough about it to know for myself. If I am directly getting the mined coins that shouldn't happen right? A fee to me implies that someone is paying me a tiny amount. Thanks for your response btw. I'll probably stay on eligius, even though I do greatly want to help the network health. Ghash and guild should have 5% between them. Not over half.

smooth

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Activity: 2968

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Quote from: mitty on January 05, 2014, 08:00:02 PM

I don't think decentralized CPPSRBP is currently possible because there'd have to be some way to manage a pool wallet for when there's a surplus from a block reward/pay from it when needed and doing this in a decentralized manner would be very difficult.

There is no wallet or surplus with CPPSRBP. The Eligius coinbases pay out to miners, not a pool wallet. There is a share log and every block that gets paid out to the most recent shares adding up to the value of the block. If the round was unlucky then not all shares from that round will be paid. If the round was lucky then some old shares will be paid. I don't know enough about the internals of p2pool to know whether this is possible.

EDIT: This isn't quite right since Eligius doesn't pay out until your balance reaches the minimum payout. Still the blocks rewards are paid directly to miners (who have accumulated a large enough balance to get paid out), not to a pool wallet.

mitty

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Quote from: spooderman on January 05, 2014, 11:50:08 AM

I would like to start mining here. Honestly though, all I have is 6.5GH to offer. Is there any point (as opposed to continuing on eligius)? And, if someone would be so kind, could you please tell me how the payout works? It's obviously not PPS, and I guess the CPPSRBP that I've grown to love with eligius is also not offered (is this not a possibility here, given that this method prevents the pool from ever paying out more than it can? Or would this jeopardize the pools decentralization?)

Thknas, spodermen

It's been a while since I've used p2pool but I believe the payout system is PPLNS (Pay per last N shares). I don't think decentralized CPPSRBP is currently possible because there'd have to be some way to manage a pool wallet for when there's a surplus from a block reward/pay from it when needed and doing this in a decentralized manner would be very difficult.

The advantage of p2pool is decentralization/not trusting a centralized pool operator and helping the Bitcoin network by running a 24/7 full node. I'd recommend not using p2pool with a small hashrate because your payouts will be tiny and cost a lot to spend in terms of transaction fees.

spooderman

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1029

I would like to start mining here. Honestly though, all I have is 6.5GH to offer. Is there any point (as opposed to continuing on eligius)? And, if someone would be so kind, could you please tell me how the payout works? It's obviously not PPS, and I guess the CPPSRBP that I've grown to love with eligius is also not offered (is this not a possibility here, given that this method prevents the pool from ever paying out more than it can? Or would this jeopardize the pools decentralization?)

Thknas, spodermen

int03h

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WRT sizing a p2pool node .. has anyone got any decent guidance on what the requirements for running the EXE or on linux?

I have tried various scenarios and it seems dead rate is very dependant on available CPU and hash load.

Watching taskmanager it seems to hit the CPU hard every few seconds as it gets new work. If the machine is too small e.g. Amazon EC2 micro it flat lines at 100% for a few seconds and generates orphans and deads like crazy. The more miners connected the more spikes. The bigger the machine the better, it seems, but that is a VERY WIDE definition.

Anyone care to explain how to avoid losing shares - the more technical the better ?

EDIT: My DOA rate hovers well under 10%. Not sure if I am trying to fix something that ain't broke ?

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 04, 2014, 10:48:47 AM

So, basically it seems nothing has been done. Oh well. Roll Eyes

No, it means that everything has been done for every other device that has native stratum. Those devices now all work. AM blades are the only available example of ASIC hardware like this.

If it's any consolation, the p2pool hashrate has gone up so much that you'd be fighting to get 1 share in the chain per block found. Because of all the ASICs on the pool.

HellDiverUK

hero member

Activity: 1246

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Quote from: Krak on January 04, 2014, 02:54:42 AM

Did you force difficulty 1 shares on it with +1 after the username?

Doesn't make any difference, other than put additional load on the miners and the p2pool node.

So, basically it seems nothing has been done. Oh well. Roll Eyes

TierNolan

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What does DOA mean exactly? Does that mean a share was found on the sharechain since you started mining?

TechByPC

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Quote from: Krak on January 04, 2014, 02:54:42 AM

Did you force difficulty 1 shares on it with +1 after the username?

I had forced difficulty, but not at 1. Just tried setting 1 now moving five blades over to it. It seems to be artificially inflating my successful share rate with a bunch of worthless low difficulty shares. My DOA is 25% after running it a bit. It is better in that my observed hash rate is better, so if I were to get a share I suppose it would be better, but the DOA rate is still crazy high compared to my other equipment.

Edit: My DOA is now steady over 32%

Krak

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Quote from: TechByPC on January 03, 2014, 11:58:54 PM

Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 03, 2014, 06:15:55 PM

ASICMiner Blades and Cubes were the ones I was thinking of specifically. Because they didn't work for shit last time I tried, even through a proxy.

I was not able to get the blades to work very well. I tested it against the latest P2Pool and my blades locally just the other day. The lowest DOA I saw was 25% but it was continuing to increase so I sent them back to a normal pool. If anyone has a solution for this I'd be glad to test it out.

Thanks.

Edit: I should say I have successfully run BFL, USB BLock Erupters, and a Chili on my own P2Pool node.

Did you force difficulty 1 shares on it with +1 after the username?

TechByPC

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Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 03, 2014, 06:15:55 PM

ASICMiner Blades and Cubes were the ones I was thinking of specifically. Because they didn't work for shit last time I tried, even through a proxy.

I was not able to get the blades to work very well. I tested it against the latest P2Pool and my blades locally just the other day. The lowest DOA I saw was 25% but it was continuing to increase so I sent them back to a normal pool. If anyone has a solution for this I'd be glad to test it out.

Thanks.

Edit: I should say I have successfully run BFL, USB BLock Erupters, and a Chili on my own P2Pool node.

dellech

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

Quote from: semaster on January 03, 2014, 04:01:04 PM

Quote from: Krak on January 03, 2014, 03:08:21 PM

Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 03, 2014, 01:48:32 PM

So has p2pool been fixed? Does it work with ASICs yet?

Or are we still in the "la-la-la-there-isn't-a-problem' running around phase, pointing fault at anyone else?

As far as I know, the only hardware that still has problems is KnC miners, but that might've been fixed. That one was most definitely a manufacturer problem.

knc hardware with firmware 0.99.1 works good on p2pool

my experience wit november Jupiters on p2pool is very good - but a bit confusing: p2pool always reports higher hash rates than cgminer Huh

HellDiverUK

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Quote from: Krak on January 03, 2014, 03:08:21 PM

Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 03, 2014, 01:48:32 PM

So has p2pool been fixed? Does it work with ASICs yet?

Or are we still in the "la-la-la-there-isn't-a-problem' running around phase, pointing fault at anyone else?

As far as I know, the only hardware that still has problems is KnC miners, but that might've been fixed. That one was most definitely a manufacturer problem.

ASICMiner Blades and Cubes were the ones I was thinking of specifically. Because they didn't work for shit last time I tried, even through a proxy.

semaster

sr. member

Activity: 395

Merit: 250

Quote from: Krak on January 03, 2014, 03:08:21 PM

Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 03, 2014, 01:48:32 PM

So has p2pool been fixed? Does it work with ASICs yet?

Or are we still in the "la-la-la-there-isn't-a-problem' running around phase, pointing fault at anyone else?

As far as I know, the only hardware that still has problems is KnC miners, but that might've been fixed. That one was most definitely a manufacturer problem.

knc hardware with firmware 0.99.1 works good on p2pool

Krak

hero member

Activity: 591

Merit: 500

Quote from: HellDiverUK on January 03, 2014, 01:48:32 PM

So has p2pool been fixed? Does it work with ASICs yet?

Or are we still in the "la-la-la-there-isn't-a-problem' running around phase, pointing fault at anyone else?

As far as I know, the only hardware that still has problems is KnC miners, but that might've been fixed. That one was most definitely a manufacturer problem.

HellDiverUK

hero member

Activity: 1246

Merit: 501

So has p2pool been fixed? Does it work with ASICs yet?

Or are we still in the "la-la-la-there-isn't-a-problem' running around phase, pointing fault at anyone else?

wlz2011

member

Activity: 71

Merit: 10

Quote from: forrestv on June 17, 2011, 06:14:22 AM

如果不改变规则！
那么未来20天我们可以看见P2POOL是如何自杀的。

Sorry, Google Translate.

If you do not change the rules!
The next 20 days we can see how P2POOL suicide！

Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool - page 450. (Read 2591964 times)