1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam? - page 14.

wormbog

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Quote from: Raoul Duke on November 28, 2011, 01:45:03 PM

Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 28, 2011, 01:21:01 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 01:16:33 PM

Quote from: xaxik on November 28, 2011, 01:14:47 PM

@inaba: What size are the chips anyway? It can be measured really easily,
without pulling the heatsink off...

I don't think inaba was allowed to keep the board although he could measure them (take a pocket ruler) next time he is given access.

I like how BFL came in here when ppl were discussing paypal chargebacks, but didnt give us official info how WHAT exactly was the problem with the demonstration. They use Inaba as their official PR lol?

The guy who was saying he would do a chargeback apparently only came to the forum talk about it and didn't even bother to contact them, so...
I would say they are smarter than all the guys around here dicing on them. They are just letting you digg the hole.
It's also incredible how everyone in this thread "know" BFLs' claims are false, yet they don't do anything of their life with all the knowledge they have. Talking in forums is easier than doing something for real, ain't it? And you don't miss deadlines by just talking intead of doing.

Helping to identify scammers preying on the community is doing something. Knowledge is power. But ultimately it's up to those who have placed pre-orders to decide whether or not to take action.

bulanula

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Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 28, 2011, 01:21:01 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 01:16:33 PM

Quote from: xaxik on November 28, 2011, 01:14:47 PM

@inaba: What size are the chips anyway? It can be measured really easily,
without pulling the heatsink off...

I don't think inaba was allowed to keep the board although he could measure them (take a pocket ruler) next time he is given access.

I like how BFL came in here when ppl were discussing paypal chargebacks, but didnt give us official info how WHAT exactly was the problem with the demonstration. They use Inaba as their official PR lol?

Exactly. This smells of scam a mile away. Will be laughing all day at the fools getting their money stolen because they did not listen. Happy scamming !

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: plastic.elastic on November 28, 2011, 01:21:01 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 01:16:33 PM

Quote from: xaxik on November 28, 2011, 01:14:47 PM

@inaba: What size are the chips anyway? It can be measured really easily,
without pulling the heatsink off...

I don't think inaba was allowed to keep the board although he could measure them (take a pocket ruler) next time he is given access.

I like how BFL came in here when ppl were discussing paypal chargebacks, but didnt give us official info how WHAT exactly was the problem with the demonstration. They use Inaba as their official PR lol?

The guy who was saying he would do a chargeback apparently only came to the forum talk about it and didn't even bother to contact them, so...
I would say they are smarter than all the guys around here dicing on them. They are just letting you digg the hole.
It's also incredible how everyone in this thread "know" BFLs' claims are false, yet they don't do anything of their life with all the knowledge they have. Talking in forums is easier than doing something for real, ain't it? And you don't miss deadlines by just talking intead of doing.

plastic.elastic

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 01:16:33 PM

Quote from: xaxik on November 28, 2011, 01:14:47 PM

@inaba: What size are the chips anyway? It can be measured really easily,
without pulling the heatsink off...

I don't think inaba was allowed to keep the board although he could measure them (take a pocket ruler) next time he is given access.

I like how BFL came in here when ppl were discussing paypal chargebacks, but didnt give us official info how WHAT exactly was the problem with the demonstration. They use Inaba as their official PR lol?

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: xaxik on November 28, 2011, 01:14:47 PM

@inaba: What size are the chips anyway? It can be measured really easily,
without pulling the heatsink off...

I don't think inaba was allowed to keep the board although he could measure them (take a pocket ruler) next time he is given access.

Matthew N. Wright

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Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet

Quote from: fizzisist on November 28, 2011, 01:07:10 PM

To me, this is reason number #42 that Butterfly Labs doesn't smell quite right.

They smell like butterflies.

xaxik

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Quote from: ArtForz on November 27, 2011, 12:40:31 AM

Those packages look like 1mm grid thermally enhanced flipchip BGA ... guesstimating by the 0.1" headers ... 29x29mm FF780
so if these are SIII, pretty much "could be anything from a L50 to a E260"
One thing kinda throwing me off... if those are HCs, 1.1V core doesn't make sense. HCII is 1.2V and HCIII and IV are 0.9V.
As for "what SIII would you need for that"... depends on how much time you spend optimizing, first guess would be 2 unrolled engines with 1 pipeline stage per round, each running @ 250MHz... gut feeling says a L150.
So, random guesses:
a) these are HCIIIs, they prototyped with SIII and forgot to update the label for vcore.
or
b) only SIII based prototypes exist, once they get enough pre-orders HCIIIs get ordered (about 8wk if you rush assembly... possible.)
or
c) they somehow got a whole bunch of large SIIIs really cheap.
or
d) something entirely different.

I guess that these are engineering/preproduction samples of EP5AGXA3.
- they are 1V1
- I was able to succesfully sythesize 250MH/s with almost no effort (just combined two cores from here) into Stratix III/150 (which is 65nm). Never run it live though.
- Arria could be twice as fast for its 28nm -> 500 MH/s
- it is supplied in 27mm F672 package

@inaba: What size are the chips anyway? It can be measured really easily,
without pulling the heatsink off...

Just my 2c.

-x

fizzisist

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Activity: 720

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Actually, accepting payment for pre-orders with Paypal is against their terms of use. Cablesaurus got a nasty email from them when he was accepting X6500 pre-orders. I'd be surprised if they haven't received this email already. And our customers were only paying $50 deposits, not $500 full payments!

To me, this is reason number #42 that Butterfly Labs doesn't smell quite right.

P4man

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Herodes on November 28, 2011, 10:58:41 AM

To my understanding, you don't have to keep much funds in a paypal account, and you can withdraw funds as soon as they come in ?

Yeah - unless Paypal suspects you are committing fraud (or violating customers privacy, or are involved in currency trading, or doesnt like the color of your website, or suspects you from having an extramarital affair, or its the 4th day of the week,..).

An acquaintance of mine had his paypal and associated bankaccount frozen the first month his business accepted paypal. He wanted to withdraw 2500 euro from it, enough for Paypal to find it "suspicious" even though his business is well established and does well over 1M per year. It took several weeks to get it cleared.

Im not saying it cant be done, I just dont think the effort BFL have clearly put in to this could be worth that risk. And I dont understand the assumption its a fraud when so far no one who knows what he is talking about seems to disagree that what they are promising is actually completely achievable. Seriously, if its not BFL, then someone else is going to make s-asics for this. The efficiency and cost gains are very substantial. The only thing weirder than BFL having done this is that no one else has done it yet.

Raoul Duke

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Activity: 1358

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I love how people who clearly don't even use paypal pretend to understand so much about the way they work...

Herodes

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Quote from: P4man on November 28, 2011, 09:17:39 AM

Do you really think if this is a scam, that they would accept paypal? They would have to be insane. A scammer will accept bitcoin, Western Union, cash, even bank transfers - anything but Paypal. PP will freeze your account and even associated bank account for a million far less valid reasons. There is no way anyone with a brain is going to invest at least $10K on an incredibly elaborate hoax that will only make them a few times their investment when it all depends on being able to run away with Paypal funds.

Its just not plausible.

OTOH a software glitch causing a minor delay.. well, somehow doesnt strike me as particularly implausible.

I dont mind a healthy level of skepticism, but this thread really reminds of fake moonlanding discussions.

To my understanding, you don't have to keep much funds in a paypal account, and you can withdraw funds as soon as they come in ? I'd even think you could set up a 'fake' paypal account. I've heard people setting up paypal accounts in such a way that paypal can't touch associated bank accounts.

I have no first hand experience with this tough.

Being a coder, I know delays are something that happens a lot, and unforeseen problems may arise, however I would personally never promise a set date for any demo if I was not pretty certain I would make it, and if I did not make it, I sure as hell would do my absolute best to explain in person the details of the delays and communicate these swiftly to the interested parties, I wouldn't let this important info get out through some other party, days after my promised demo.

fred0

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Activity: 349

Merit: 250

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:44:45 AM

Quote from: sadpandatech on November 28, 2011, 10:37:59 AM

Agreed, not well listed for both parties.. Edit; though, atleast on new bets they get their bet weighted less and less as it approaches the end date..

Sadly the weighting isn't very "aggressive" so while early bets get more they don't get much more. I wish someone would come up w/ an intrade type betting system where you purchase "shares" in the event and they trade because on market demand.

Shares in it being legit would be worth 1 BTC if it turns out to be legit (spec & deadline requirement) and worth 0 BTC if it doesn't.

Each day the market would move up and down based on new facts. So you can take longshots and still win by selling out even if the bet ultimately goes against you.

I wonder why bets of bitcoin didn't go w/ the already established format of a market.

Bet payout composition:
Weighting 45%
Straight 45%
Statement writer 5%
Bets o Bitcoin 5%

If this software glitch is serious an announcement of a two week delay would also end the bet, since no customer will receive the widget in time to verify performance.

In any case, some of the fun leaves when after every announcement someone dumps a large sum on either side of the bet.

Aside from the weighting, the cutoff date so close to the end date really messes up the betting, it really should have been much earlier.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: sadpandatech on November 28, 2011, 10:37:59 AM

Agreed, not well listed for both parties.. Edit; though, atleast on new bets they get their bet weighted less and less as it approaches the end date..

Sadly the weighting isn't very "aggressive" so while early bets get more they don't get much more. I wish someone would come up w/ an intrade type betting system where you purchase "shares" in the event and they trade because on market demand.

Shares in it being legit would be worth 1 BTC if it turns out to be legit (spec & deadline requirement) and worth 0 BTC if it doesn't.

Each day the market would move up and down based on new facts. So you can take longshots and still win by selling out even if the bet ultimately goes against you.

I wonder why bets of bitcoin didn't go w/ the already established format of a market.

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

I understand why you wont double down on our bet.

Found it.
1PuepC3QTWsveqHx64FKUaQnp2jHQzmpHZ
(post 399)
So if I send 10 you will be sending 20 on the same conditions, right?

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:35:18 AM

Funny I would say it is crap for the naysayers. There is no deadline for bets so people can bet as late as 11:59 on DEC 31st against it, or they can bet even after it is a confirmed scam.

Agreed they should close the bets now. But it does go both ways. If inaba publishes its findings and announces the first units are being shipped, anyone can still bet a few 100 BTC against the statement diluting my bet completely even though I was one of the first to bet against it when odds where 4-1 of this being a scam.

Quote

Sad that this rather interesting bet was so poorly constructed.

Yep.

sadpandatech

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Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:35:18 AM

Quote from: sadpandatech on November 28, 2011, 10:33:24 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:24:44 AM

Wow action on this bet has heated up:
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141

that bet is crap imho. There is no spread at all, atleast in the text, for those that think it is legit...

" live up to the performance claims,"
"The performance claims are as follows: 1.05 GH/s with 19.8 W maximum power draw."
"proven to meet or exceed these performance claims"

Funny I would say it is crap for the naysayers. There is no deadline for bets so people can bet as late as 11:59 on DEC 31st against it, or they can bet even after it is a confirmed scam. Sad that this rather interesting bet was so poorly constructed.

I would have given 10% spread and put a deadline on bets for 1 DEC.

Agreed, not well listed for both parties.. Edit; though, atleast on new bets they get their bet weighted less and less as it approaches the end date..

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: sadpandatech on November 28, 2011, 10:33:24 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:24:44 AM

Wow action on this bet has heated up:
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141

that bet is crap imho. There is no spread at all, atleast in the text, for those that think it is legit...

" live up to the performance claims,"
"The performance claims are as follows: 1.05 GH/s with 19.8 W maximum power draw."
"proven to meet or exceed these performance claims"

Funny I would say it is crap for the naysayers. There is no deadline for bets so people can bet as late as 11:59 on DEC 31st against it, or they can bet even after it is a confirmed scam. Sad that this rather interesting bet was so poorly constructed.

I would have given 10% spread and put a deadline on bets for 1 DEC.

sadpandatech

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:24:44 AM

Wow action on this bet has heated up:
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141

that bet is crap imho. There is no spread at all, atleast in the text, for those that think it is legit...

" live up to the performance claims,"
"The performance claims are as follows: 1.05 GH/s with 19.8 W maximum power draw."
"proven to meet or exceed these performance claims"

So if the thing draws 19.9 W, you lose even if you win if they wanna be technical about it.

fred0

sr. member

Activity: 349

Merit: 250

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on November 28, 2011, 10:24:44 AM

Wow action on this bet has heated up:
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141

Certainly the edge is on the agree side of the bet--especially due to delay in demo. It is so easy to be late on a project.

Interesting numbers.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Wow action on this bet has heated up:
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=141

Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam? - page 14. (Read 123109 times)