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Topic: 25k coins bought, $10 jump (Read 6308 times)

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
September 02, 2013, 06:15:48 PM
#69
There is an interesting explanation of how money actually appear.

It is based on a simple premise that every entity in the world has a balance sheet.

Every transaction is effectively simply one or more transfer(s) from credit side of the balance sheet of one entity to a debit side of the balance sheet of another entity. No matter how many those transaction are performed overall the amount of money stays the same.

Now let's see how money are created. No matter the way of creation of "money as debt", either the fed loan it to some banks on some terms or a bank obtains a signature of a slave on a mortgage paper or any other method of creation of money as debt, the balance sheet representation of this act is always the same. Money magically appear as an asset on credit side of the lender and the same amount of debt appears as a liability on the debit side of balance sheet of the borrower.

No matter how money move afterwards the end result is the same. Those parties in this lunacy that have privilege of seniorage magically get themselves assets to appear on credit side of the BB while the slaves get the same amount to appear on the debit side of their BB.

This does not strike me as fair, at all. I prefer Bitcoin way of money creation.
It also worth adding that lenders in this case bear no risk whatsoever. Most of slaves will take the game seriously and work hard to create wealth and give it to the lender, interest included. And if they don't - no problem. Just take whatever they bought using your funny money, and don't deal with them further.  And keep telling people how you don't get something for nothing in life  Cheesy

Wow, did we go off-topic here...!

Off topic - yes - but: I wish people would talk about debt money, not money as debt. We have base money (notes and coins) and debt money.

The "money as debt" is the ghost of past profligacy coming to haunt us all. It's not currently "real", because the central banks are treating it like a current account overdraft agreement with no terms of repayment. As it stands, nation states can barely afford the interest payments on these loans (aka the euphemistic "sovereign bonds"). But as the conventional wisdom about overdraft facilities goes, what happens when the bank does decide it wants the overdrawn money returned? They are likely to request it whenever they are endangered, and things are looking a little tipping point-ish.

irony: did you just say debt money? /irony
Or did you argue against the naming of the concept?
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
September 02, 2013, 06:13:28 PM
#68
There is an interesting explanation of how money actually appear.

It is based on a simple premise that every entity in the world has a balance sheet.

Every transaction is effectively simply one or more transfer(s) from credit side of the balance sheet of one entity to a debit side of the balance sheet of another entity. No matter how many those transaction are performed overall the amount of money stays the same.

Now let's see how money are created. No matter the way of creation of "money as debt", either the fed loan it to some banks on some terms or a bank obtains a signature of a slave on a mortgage paper or any other method of creation of money as debt, the balance sheet representation of this act is always the same. Money magically appear as an asset on credit side of the lender and the same amount of debt appears as a liability on the debit side of balance sheet of the borrower.

No matter how money move afterwards the end result is the same. Those parties in this lunacy that have privilege of seniorage magically get themselves assets to appear on credit side of the BB while the slaves get the same amount to appear on the debit side of their BB.

This does not strike me as fair, at all. I prefer Bitcoin way of money creation.
It also worth adding that lenders in this case bear no risk whatsoever. Most of slaves will take the game seriously and work hard to create wealth and give it to the lender, interest included. And if they don't - no problem. Just take whatever they bought using your funny money, and don't deal with them further.  And keep telling people how you don't get something for nothing in life  Cheesy

Wow, did we go off-topic here...!

Off topic - yes - but: I wish people would talk about debt money, not money as debt. We have base money (notes and coins) and debt money.

The "money as debt" is the ghost of past profligacy coming to haunt us all. It's not currently "real", because the central banks are treating it like a current account overdraft agreement with no terms of repayment. As it stands, nation states can barely afford the interest payments on these loans (aka the euphemistic "sovereign bonds"). But as the conventional wisdom about overdraft facilities goes, what happens when the bank does decide it wants the overdrawn money returned? They are likely to request it whenever they are endangered, and things are looking a little tipping point-ish.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
September 02, 2013, 05:22:38 PM
#67
There is an interesting explanation of how money actually appear.

It is based on a simple premise that every entity in the world has a balance sheet.

Every transaction is effectively simply one or more transfer(s) from credit side of the balance sheet of one entity to a debit side of the balance sheet of another entity. No matter how many those transaction are performed overall the amount of money stays the same.

Now let's see how money are created. No matter the way of creation of "money as debt", either the fed loan it to some banks on some terms or a bank obtains a signature of a slave on a mortgage paper or any other method of creation of money as debt, the balance sheet representation of this act is always the same. Money magically appear as an asset on credit side of the lender and the same amount of debt appears as a liability on the debit side of balance sheet of the borrower.

No matter how money move afterwards the end result is the same. Those parties in this lunacy that have privilege of seniorage magically get themselves assets to appear on credit side of the BB while the slaves get the same amount to appear on the debit side of their BB.

This does not strike me as fair, at all. I prefer Bitcoin way of money creation.
It also worth adding that lenders in this case bear no risk whatsoever. Most of slaves will take the game seriously and work hard to create wealth and give it to the lender, interest included. And if they don't - no problem. Just take whatever they bought using your funny money, and don't deal with them further.  And keep telling people how you don't get something for nothing in life  Cheesy

Wow, did we go off-topic here...!

Off topic - yes - but: I wish people would talk about debt money, not money as debt. We have base money (notes and coins) and debt money.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
September 02, 2013, 03:46:46 PM
#66
There is an interesting explanation of how money actually appear.

It is based on a simple premise that every entity in the world has a balance sheet.

Every transaction is effectively simply one or more transfer(s) from credit side of the balance sheet of one entity to a debit side of the balance sheet of another entity. No matter how many those transaction are performed overall the amount of money stays the same.

Now let's see how money are created. No matter the way of creation of "money as debt", either the fed loan it to some banks on some terms or a bank obtains a signature of a slave on a mortgage paper or any other method of creation of money as debt, the balance sheet representation of this act is always the same. Money magically appear as an asset on credit side of the lender and the same amount of debt appears as a liability on the debit side of balance sheet of the borrower.

No matter how money move afterwards the end result is the same. Those parties in this lunacy that have privilege of seniorage magically get themselves assets to appear on credit side of the BB while the slaves get the same amount to appear on the debit side of their BB.

This does not strike me as fair, at all. I prefer Bitcoin way of money creation.
It also worth adding that lenders in this case bear no risk whatsoever. Most of slaves will take the game seriously and work hard to create wealth and give it to the lender, interest included. And if they don't - no problem. Just take whatever they bought using your funny money, and don't deal with them further.  And keep telling people how you don't get something for nothing in life  Cheesy

Wow, did we go off-topic here...!
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
September 02, 2013, 02:19:14 PM
#65
Man, do I regret cashing out $5000 yesterday!
Still, needed the the money. Just how long can one wait, eh?

Nobody spends money with deflating prices, anyone?
It is just like when the price droped to ~ $70 just a little bit ago everybody was saying "only an idiot would be long bitcoins now, sell them while you can!"

Yep and it is like: "Only idiots buy computer components, laptops mobile phones or generally almost any piece of technology or any depreciating asset" i.e. it is all utter nonsense.

$coin = USD
Bernake believes, according to a speech of his, that his monetary policy is somehow just and distributes $coins evenly. In reality, with inflation, the new $coins is distributed to the few. In a deflationary coin, new value is distributed proportionally to all holders. Still not just, think of someone just starting a family who have used all his or her $coins, but it is better.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
September 02, 2013, 01:10:09 PM
#64
Man, do I regret cashing out $5000 yesterday!
Still, needed the the money. Just how long can one wait, eh?

Nobody spends money with deflating prices, anyone?

But you never know when the price will stop going up, so it is a good idea to spend some now before the price crashes.

It is just like when the price droped to ~ $70 just a little bit ago everybody was saying "only an idiot would be long bitcoins now, sell them while you can!"
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1000
Varanida : Fair & Transparent Digital Ecosystem
September 02, 2013, 04:31:21 AM
#63
Produce an up trend and then sell.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
September 01, 2013, 08:16:26 PM
#62
To think,another 25,000 buy would put us at $200.

To think, someone is trying to put it there  ...
Motive ... profit perhaps  ??
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
September 01, 2013, 06:12:08 PM
#61
To think,another 25,000 buy would put us at $200.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
September 01, 2013, 05:56:06 PM
#60
sure, ok.

It just struck me as badly wrong claiming that Bitcoin is not like a stock (obviously only to some degree) only because it supposedly "cannot be split" or is "pre-split". By this logic GOOG and BRK/A are not stocks.


My point was that the Bitcoin (or any other crypto-currency) market is different from previous established markets like stocks, commodities, metals, and forex, although obviously there are many similarities.

While market manipulation is as old as history, the small size and low liquidity leave it more vulnerable.

It's a lot easier and cheaper to move the price up or down than to corner the market on onions.

It may be a lot easier and cheaper to move the price up.  Down is a different story.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
September 01, 2013, 02:56:28 PM
#59
I was having fun with Phinneus' obviously sarcastic (judging by the rolling-eyes smiley) referral to the stock market as if it had anything to do with Bitcoin.

Gage is never sarcastic. You simply can not think on his wave length.

Actually, I brought a new computer and it didn't come with sarcastic tags or a smiley button. Seriously, I've yet to take a screenshot with it because I don't know which button to push without Googling it. It took me a week to figure out the mouse pad--by accident--so that I no longer have to touch the screen to do stuff. Ironically, the main reason for purchasing this damn thing is so that I would have that ability, now I don't use it.

Yes, I was being sarcastic with my two previous posts, insinuating that one could buy high and sell low, but make it up in volume. I figured if it was good enough for The Polish Maverick to remove the zeros from the roulette wheels, the sound advice should carry over to bitcoin investing.
legendary
Activity: 4242
Merit: 5039
You're never too old to think young.
September 01, 2013, 01:30:43 PM
#58
sure, ok.

It just struck me as badly wrong claiming that Bitcoin is not like a stock (obviously only to some degree) only because it supposedly "cannot be split" or is "pre-split". By this logic GOOG and BRK/A are not stocks.


My point was that the Bitcoin (or any other crypto-currency) market is different from previous established markets like stocks, commodities, metals, and forex, although obviously there are many similarities.

While market manipulation is as old as history, the small size and low liquidity leave it more vulnerable.

It's a lot easier and cheaper to move the price up or down than to corner the market on onions.
legendary
Activity: 4242
Merit: 5039
You're never too old to think young.
September 01, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
#57
The "shares" will be split when people start using satoshis instead of bitcoins.

Bitcoin comes pre-split. I've long referred to prices as being in millions of satoshis rather than fractions of bitcoins.

I was having fun with Phinneus' obviously sarcastic (judging by the rolling-eyes smiley) referral to the stock market as if it had anything to do with Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 4242
Merit: 5039
You're never too old to think young.
September 01, 2013, 12:44:12 PM
#56
Some people just don't know how the Stock Market works.

Ah yes, the stock market. Keep buying and selling those BTC shares in accordance with established stock market technical analysis.

When do you think the shares will be split?

 Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
September 01, 2013, 12:26:27 PM
#55
Man, do I regret cashing out $5000 yesterday!
Still, needed the the money. Just how long can one wait, eh?

Nobody spends money with deflating prices, anyone?

deflation is a long term thing. sharp increases in the price are just as likely to be a trap as a legitimate long term movement. this means there is plenty of reason to buy things when the price is rising. you get more stuff for the money you invested. i bought amnesia the dark decent for 0.02btc and im feeling pretty good about it =)

Right, and the other side of the coin: We have no problem buying bitcoins when the price is rising.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
September 01, 2013, 12:23:03 PM
#54
Man, do I regret cashing out $5000 yesterday!
Still, needed the the money. Just how long can one wait, eh?

Nobody spends money with deflating prices, anyone?

deflation is a long term thing. sharp increases in the price are just as likely to be a trap as a legitimate long term movement. this means there is plenty of reason to buy things when the price is rising. you get more stuff for the money you invested. i bought amnesia the dark decent for 0.02btc and im feeling pretty good about it =)
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
September 01, 2013, 12:21:20 PM
#53
The fundamental error made by the inflationists is that they conflate money with demand. In reality, demand is the goods and services the buyer brings to the market, and supply is the goods and services the seller brings to the market. Money is just the oil to smooth out differences in many to many trades and time preferences.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
September 01, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
#52
Man, do I regret cashing out $5000 yesterday!
Still, needed the the money. Just how long can one wait, eh?

Nobody spends money with deflating prices, anyone?

I have heard this "logic" several times. In the business economics course my lecturer said it too, he even called everyone idiots for spending money during the deflation.

Of course, everyone who ever bought a computer (computers are in perpetual state of deflation) is an idiot by his logic. Yea right.


Professors of economics, economic experts, pundits, and such have had their chance, multiple times, and have repeatedly proven themselves idiots and their theories idiotic. Only an idiot would take them seriously after everything we've seen in the past 50 years. Even those who profited - especially them - don't take the mainstream econimic theories seriously.
FNG
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
September 01, 2013, 06:39:02 AM
#51


Also, while Im here, can someone explain to me why CampBX or others typically have BTC cheaper than Mtgox? What is preventing people from just buying CampBX and then selling Mtgox almost instantly?
A purchase of 161 coins on CampBX increases the price by over $11
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1015
September 01, 2013, 03:33:50 AM
#50
Man, do I regret cashing out $5000 yesterday!
Still, needed the the money. Just how long can one wait, eh?

Nobody spends money with deflating prices, anyone?

I have heard this "logic" several times. In the business economics course my lecturer said it too, he even called everyone idiots for spending money during the deflation.

However, this is a very flawed mindset. Are you really so greedy that you're willing to starve because your money could be worth more tomorrow? Also, in the case of bitcoin, one can never know when the trend reverses so buying stuff during an uptrend is actually a wise thing to do.
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