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Topic: 25k coins bought, $10 jump - page 3. (Read 6312 times)

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 508
August 30, 2013, 04:55:34 PM
#29

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.

I said it's not foolish, with conditions. But you conveniently ignored the brunt of my point. Sure, the situation you paint sounds like a wet dream, but if this were happening on any decent scale, inter-exchange spreads would have ceased long ago.

Are you sure about that?
MtGox USD -> JPY Bank (3% exchange rate fee + wire fee)
JPY Bank -> US Bank (3% exchange rate fee + wire fee)
US Bank -> Other Exchanges (wire fee)

They might be able to tighten the spread a little bit, but not too much more than it has been.
To some extent you're right, but I think you're understating the effect on a 10-15% spread.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 508
August 30, 2013, 04:53:23 PM
#28

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.

I said it's not foolish, with conditions. But you conveniently ignored the brunt of my point. Sure, the situation you paint sounds like a wet dream, but if this were happening on any decent scale, inter-exchange spreads would have ceased long ago.

Re obtaining a bank account, unless things have changed, you need to register for an alien registration card, which requires Japanese residency. I've seen sources that say one year -- others that say there are exceptions with certain banks with certain documentation. But establishing residency in a foreign country to obtain money you are already entitled to is a ridiculous hurdle and it's funny that people illustrate this as reasonable.

Also, does the currency exchange issue (i.e. Gox exchanges USD-JPY rather than its bank) affect money transmission issues? A state-by-state look at money transmitter regulations suggests that currency exchange may carry compliance concerns that Gox is not in a position to handle. Do you have any information about this, or are we just assuming it is a non-issue?
I know what you said and I wanted to point out that your "conditions" can be circumvented.

But check this thread if you haven't already: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-question-everybody-is-asking-but-nobody-has-shared-the-solution-to-yet-276610  -- lots of answers.

Since Japanese locals are reporting to have withdrawn their money in JPY, I assumed it's a non-issue. Furthermore, because of their business involving several currencies, I again, assumed, that they went through the necessary validations for currency exchanging or their banks do it for them.
Yeah, non-option. You can't just become a Japanese local with a bank account without establishing residency and documentation with the local registrar.

Don't assume anything with Gox. They had $5 million seized over the past few months for dodging regulations. They're fucking buffoons. And we know about their current banking situation...
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
August 30, 2013, 04:52:43 PM
#27

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.

I said it's not foolish, with conditions. But you conveniently ignored the brunt of my point. Sure, the situation you paint sounds like a wet dream, but if this were happening on any decent scale, inter-exchange spreads would have ceased long ago.

Are you sure about that?
MtGox USD -> JPY Bank (3% exchange rate fee + wire fee)
JPY Bank -> US Bank (3% exchange rate fee + wire fee)
US Bank -> Other Exchanges (wire fee)

They might be able to tighten the spread a little bit, but not too much more than it has been.
member
Activity: 73
Merit: 10
August 30, 2013, 04:38:33 PM
#26

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.

I said it's not foolish, with conditions. But you conveniently ignored the brunt of my point. Sure, the situation you paint sounds like a wet dream, but if this were happening on any decent scale, inter-exchange spreads would have ceased long ago.

Re obtaining a bank account, unless things have changed, you need to register for an alien registration card, which requires Japanese residency. I've seen sources that say one year -- others that say there are exceptions with certain banks with certain documentation. But establishing residency in a foreign country to obtain money you are already entitled to is a ridiculous hurdle and it's funny that people illustrate this as reasonable.

Also, does the currency exchange issue (i.e. Gox exchanges USD-JPY rather than its bank) affect money transmission issues? A state-by-state look at money transmitter regulations suggests that currency exchange may carry compliance concerns that Gox is not in a position to handle. Do you have any information about this, or are we just assuming it is a non-issue?
I know what you said and I wanted to point out that your "conditions" can be circumvented.

But check this thread if you haven't already: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-question-everybody-is-asking-but-nobody-has-shared-the-solution-to-yet-276610  -- lots of answers.

Since Japanese locals are reporting to have withdrawn their money in JPY, I assumed it's a non-issue. Furthermore, because of their business involving several currencies, I again, assumed, that they went through the necessary validations for currency exchanging or their banks do it for them.


legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1008
August 30, 2013, 03:51:10 PM
#25
whats so hard about exchanging your fiat into 16 different currencies? cant you go down to your own local bank and do that? assuming the same people run mtgox if/when it was a mtg site means very little other than maybe the operators saw a more profitable business model.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 508
August 30, 2013, 03:17:13 PM
#24

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.

I said it's not foolish, with conditions. But you conveniently ignored the brunt of my point. Sure, the situation you paint sounds like a wet dream, but if this were happening on any decent scale, inter-exchange spreads would have ceased long ago.

Re obtaining a bank account, unless things have changed, you need to register for an alien registration card, which requires Japanese residency. I've seen sources that say one year -- others that say there are exceptions with certain banks with certain documentation. But establishing residency in a foreign country to obtain money you are already entitled to is a ridiculous hurdle and it's funny that people illustrate this as reasonable.

Also, does the currency exchange issue (i.e. Gox exchanges USD-JPY rather than its bank) affect money transmission issues? A state-by-state look at money transmitter regulations suggests that currency exchange may carry compliance concerns that Gox is not in a position to handle. Do you have any information about this, or are we just assuming it is a non-issue?
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
August 30, 2013, 02:56:00 PM
#23

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.


"Holiday" arrangements to Tokyo, check!

What people seem to assume is that Mt Gox's back story has any credence at all: even if they did start out as a genuine Magic the Gathering trading site that just so happened to end up as the biggest cryptocurrency exchange out there, the credibility of that transformation is missing a key step in the narrative. At some point, a very big fish in Japanese power broking got involved, they could not have got such a web platform (16 major currencies?) to where it is and continue it without that kind of cooperation. I'd be very concerned about Japanese regulatory investigations into Gox's business, but there have been precisely zero such forays, not even a hint. Whoever their backer is, they're significant members of the global political food chain. They're not letting their massive gamble of a venture go down in a hurry, or without a fight. I wonder exactly what sort of turbulence this outfit has really caused behind closed doors up until now.

Anyone who really believes this is just the natural evolution of a gaming card website is excruciatingly naive. It's not going away in the short term.
member
Activity: 73
Merit: 10
August 30, 2013, 02:45:09 PM
#22

It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.


It's not foolish and it's not very complicated to understand why. There is a way to goet money uot of gox fast. You have to have an account at a japanese bank (which can be complicated to achieve for a foreigner) and send funds from gox to that bank. Then you just wire the money at the bank to anywhere you want.

There are few who have this set up and perhaps they are making millions. Nothing foolish about that.
hero member
Activity: 622
Merit: 500
August 30, 2013, 01:39:58 PM
#21
They could possibly be buying because they think bitcoin is a good investment.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 508
August 30, 2013, 01:37:26 PM
#20
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Yes it does. Those are FOOLISH attempts at arbing. That crap is temporary and will come to an end soon. They will regret trying to arb

Why is it foolish?
Are you unaware of Gox's problems?

Sure, that's what's causing the arb opportunity. That's doesn't mean it's foolish to take advantage of it.
It's not foolish if you can afford to have your money in limbo for weeks or months at a time. Could definitely be worth it.

Or perhaps it is extremely foolish. We will only see in hindsight. It's prudent to recognize that Gox is a) losing massive market share, b) facing deepening regulatory/compliance issues across a plethora of jurisdictions, c) facing an unofficial banking blockade (this situation is eerily similar to the banking issues that crushed the online poker market) where banks would have to be beyond desperate to go anywhere near Gox, and d) that a significant portion of Gox's yearly revenue was recently seized (not frozen) by the US government -- which direction the USG heads from here is difficult to say. $5 million ain't no drop in the bucket.

The $2.1 million seizure on June 19 was one day before suspending US withdrawals. Right? Considering how massively incompetent Gox has been to date, I've become more open to the prospect that they made no prior contingency plans for USD payment processing (up to and including seizures). The amount of money they have kept sitting in US bank accounts is sickening.
hero member
Activity: 561
Merit: 500
August 30, 2013, 01:25:13 PM
#19
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Yes it does. Those are FOOLISH attempts at arbing. That crap is temporary and will come to an end soon. They will regret trying to arb

Why is it foolish?
Are you unaware of Gox's problems?

Sure, that's what's causing the arb opportunity. That's doesn't mean it's foolish to take advantage of it.

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
sr. member
Activity: 516
Merit: 283
August 30, 2013, 12:16:19 PM
#17
I'm holding some coins right now, but I'm not feeling too good about it. Trying to figure out exit points... I don't think this price can be propped up for too long. No way I'm selling on Gox, though, even if I can take 12% profit right off the top.

I've reduced my footprint in BTC by nearly 75% during this rally based on similar feelings.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 508
August 30, 2013, 12:13:57 PM
#16
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Yes it does. Those are FOOLISH attempts at arbing. That crap is temporary and will come to an end soon. They will regret trying to arb

Why is it foolish?
Are you unaware of Gox's problems?

I'm holding some coins right now, but I'm not feeling too good about it. Trying to figure out exit points... I don't think this price can be propped up for too long. No way I'm selling on Gox, though, even if I can take 12% profit right off the top.
hero member
Activity: 837
Merit: 1000
hero member
Activity: 561
Merit: 500
August 30, 2013, 12:10:04 PM
#14
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Yes it does. Those are FOOLISH attempts at arbing. That crap is temporary and will come to an end soon. They will regret trying to arb

Why is it foolish?
hero member
Activity: 837
Merit: 1000
August 30, 2013, 12:04:29 PM
#13
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Arbitrage
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Ultranode
August 30, 2013, 12:03:56 PM
#12
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Yes it does. Those are FOOLISH attempts at arbing. That crap is temporary and will come to an end soon. They will regret trying to arb
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye
August 30, 2013, 12:02:17 PM
#11
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

That is the way arbitrage works. The person who bought all those coins had to buy them from other people. Some of those people have fiat sitting at other exchanges. When their bitcoins are sold on Gox they buy the same number of coins at other exchanges at the lower price for an instant profit.
sr. member
Activity: 516
Merit: 283
August 30, 2013, 11:57:03 AM
#10
None of this explains why Bitstamp, CampBX and btc-e all recorded the same magnitude jump simultaneously

Sorry dude, shouldn't you be doing this as the price goes up?



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