Topic: 3 kinds of ICOs — Protect yourself - page 13. (Read 13692 times)

Really? Will municipalities accept a wallet address? Highly unlikely.

Which countries does Swarm Fund plan to operate in? Can they prove that each of these countries will accept a crypto wallet address on a land title deed? Highly unlikely.

Let's say that these municipalities will, which is a stretch, how does Swarm Fund prove that my ERC20 token owns a percentage of the assets that their wallet owns?

Deed must list the wallet address, like a property description. That's the only way.

You didn’t disagree with what I wrote about Swarm Fund. I wrote that they lied when they said:


I have the same questions about Swarm Fund, or any fund, as I do for Crypto20. See my posting above about Crypto20. How can they prove that the tokens legally own the real estate? Ownership of real estate is recorded by municipalities. They record the name of the owner. I assume that municipalities will record Swarm Fund as the owner? If so, then what are the legal documents that will prove that my ERC20 token entitles me to part ownership of the real estate that has Swarm Fund’s name recorded as owner?

How do we confirm that Swarm Fund is going to take all of the ETH that I give them to buy real estate? How do we confirm that they won’t skim off 10%, 20% or 50% of the ETH and put it into their personal wallets?

I’m not saying that investment funds (into any asset) does not have value. There have been many investment funds throughout history that have provided a lot of value. There have been many investment funds throughout history that have been scams. How do we confirm that Swarm fund will be the former and not the latter?

If it's flawed why Vitalik claims to advise the project, I'm not a Kyberians but really believe in every Vitalik project also based on they said  remaining 95% of the fees will be burned, and my believe is knc going to hits Bittrex soon, so would be fine for a short term. 

Very true. This is a great article to slow the uninformed investor and allow real projects to come forward.

Thanks for this summary: very useful.

I have to disagree regarding Swarm fund. REITs definitely have their place as an investment to consider, but Swam takes this concept many levels deeper. Swarm is about much more than real estate, it is fully decentralized, members vote on the direction of the platform via a stake weighted liquid democracy system (already developed) with the first vote scheduled for a week after the ICO. It would be foolish to dismiss any ICO based on one aspect you disagree with or misunderstood. Not to mention that the whole idea of Swarm is to function as an agnostic platform where anyone can bring an investment opportunity to it and tokenize it. Just like Ethereum created an ecosystem for applications to be run on top of it, Swarm is doing the same but for any and every investment opportunity out there. I will definitely be investing on their ICO and using their platform, which by the way, already has a beta version out. Like any investment of course you have to do your due diligence but to call them liars is a bit  of a stretch.

It was an informative article, thank you. Can I ask what you think of Guts by taking advantage of your experience in this area? I appreciate your opinion, thank you

I see, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. if we had the assurance that those funds were completely honest or legitimate, they would have great potential in the future, unless the whole crypto ecosystem would crash. Anyway, I was also wondering, what's your take on Blockchain ICOs like Universa, who claim they will be superior to Bitcoin and other platforms in many aspects? Obviously, Universa doesn't have any prototype it seems, but solely from the perspective of potential and adoption rate, could they work? Another type of ICO I was wondering about with regards to your view on it would be digital advertising ICOs like Papyrus for example. Considering social media and digital advertising are growing exponentially in this age, do you think Altcoins would have any potential to penetrate this space?

In regards to Crypto20, I think there is a need for an index fund of cryptocurrencies. However, the risk with crypto investment funds is that they centralize money and therefore create “honey pots” (term from Andreas Antonopoulos) for hackers and thieves. A thief stole $50 million from DAO. Hackers (and possibly employees) stole from many exchanges.

The other risk with Crypto20 is that they are obviously and blatantly selling a security. If and when regulators come after ICOs for selling securities, they will go after the ones that were most obvious. If they do, then both the project team and token holders will suffer.

How do we know that the Crypto20 tokens truly have ownership of the underlying assets (top 20 cryptocurrencies)? Is there a Crypto20 smart contract where we can call one of its GETTER functions to see the balances of the 20 cryptocurrencies that the smart contract is holding? I did not see this in the white paper. Even if we can verify that the smart contract is holding the 20 cryptocurrencies, how do we know that the Crypto20 tokens own the assets that the smart contract holds? But the smart contract does not hold the 20 cryptocurrencies. According to the white paper, these will be held in cold storage.

If the majority of the Crypto20 token holders want to claim the assets (20 cryptocurrencies), can they? Can they go to a judge and prove that they legally own the assets in Crypto20’s cold storage? I could not find answers to these questions.

Tether has the same principles. It is supposed to be backed by and track the US dollar. Each Tether is supposed to equal one US dollar in value. There are talks that they do not have enough US dollars and they have not been able to prove that they do. Let’s say there are 1 million Tether tokens, but they only have 100,000 US dollars to back it up. What do you if you are a token holder? Take a flight to the team’s country and try to hunt them down?

When you give your ETH to Crypto20, they are supposed to take that and buy the equivalent amounts of Bitcoin, Ripple, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum Classic, NEM, Dash, etc. How do you know that they have? You cannot have access to their cold storage. How do you know that they haven’t skimmed off 50% of the ETH and put it into their personal wallets?

These are the risks of every type of crypto investment fund. There are many of them now. Some of them might be honest and legitimate. Some of them will not be. The risk is that it is hard to be sure that you are investing in the honest one, unless they provide all of the answers to questions like mine. If there is a way to know for sure that they cannot screw you, then these types of investment funds can provide a lot of value.

nice thread. keep up brother

There was SuperNet Ico in 2014 that funded the initial development and Komodo Ico last year (because Komodo replaced Bitcoindark)



BarterDex is by far the leader in this stuff, the closest thing is Blocknet



I think you will like it, LM helps the small traders because you have more options to catch a dip



No need to download full blockchains, since the time the video was made Electrum mode was tested and added. Now you can choose either full mode or Electrum. Also the video is using a simple ugly gui with command line, this is not the version meant for release. The pretty gui won't require any command line use!



Any advanced user can act as liquidity provider by interfacing with centralized exchanges with their api



BarterDex already works with Bitcoin, Litecoin, Stratis, Vertcoin, Dogecoin, Dash, PIVX, Zcash, Komodo and many other minor ones (beside Komodo assetchains and fiat pegs). Not bad for a first release! Making a coin compatible with BarterDex is not too hard if their devs are willing to make the work for it. I believe that once it gets some recognition more coin developers will be willing to make the effort! There will be bounties too. One thing is sure: coins that don't support atomic swaps are going to suffer a lot of friction in the near future.

Look at a short summary of all the features here: https://twitter.com/Komodo_Italy/status/920589969198108672

In regards to SuperNet’s BarterDex, I don't see any information about an ICO or their team. Are they running an ICO?

I think there are severe problems with centralized exchanges: risk of funds getting stolen; extremely bogged down. It took many days before the exchange will confirm to me that it received my fiat wire transfer. During this long wait, I was wondering if they are stealing my money. There is a HUGE need for decentralized exchanges. I sincerely wish someone will create a good one. Whoever can, will be hugely successful.

The question is: Who will be able to do this? There have been a number of ICO projects trying to do this, but unfortunately I forgot their names. Is BarterDex superior to the others? I don’t know because I cannot compare them. But SuperNet should have provided a comparison to its competitors, but they didn’t. Most ICOs do not, which implies that they are trying to hide the competition from you.

They have a prototype/product, so that is impressive. However, I’m not sure I like the the Liquidity Multiplier. It only gives an illusion of liquidity, because if you enter 3 orders for the same funds and 2 are cancelled when one of them is filled, then is this fake liquidity. This means that I can put in a buy order of 1 BTC, a 2nd buy order of 1 BTC, a 3rd buy order of 1 BTC and never worry that my 2nd and 3rd orders will get filled. If these buy orders are visible to the other parties, then I can create the impression that there is a lot of demand for BTC, when there isn’t. Does this mean I can manipulate the market?

They have a prototype, which is good news. However, according to their video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XovwcWnZ9vM), you need to install and run full daemons of Bitcoin and Komodo. The guy runs bitcoind with no pruning parameter, so I assume that he is running Bitcoin’s full node. There are problems with this:

• It is a hassle to run a command line interface. The guy even says that you need advanced skills and “it’ll take quite a while” to learn from scratch.
  
• It takes multiple days to download Bitcoin’s full node. Also, most users will not have a spare 120 GB of disk space for the blockchain.
  
• It would be crazy to be running the full node of every coin that you want to convert. Ethereum’s blockchain is 200 GB. Who is going to run that?

Later on in the video, he confirms that you need to “sync”, which means download, the blockchain of any coin that you want to exchange with. I do not see how the average user will be able to do this. Even if you are experienced in running full nodes, it is a major hassle to do this and you likely will not have enough disk space to download Bitcoin’s blockchain, let alone blockchains from multiple coins.

This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf371VQRh0M) confirmed that you need to run the full nodes.

But this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb7An2CGBQw) says that it can work with Electrum servers to avoid the need to download the blockchain. As far as I know, Electrum only serves the Bitcoin blockchain, not others.

Their white paper gets very technical and hard to understand. It would be good if they included more diagrams to help explain. I still do not understand how they can provide lots of liquidity. Let’s say you put in a buy order of 1 BTC. Let’s say there isn’t a single sell order of BTC. What will BarterDex do? Will BarterDex step in, like a market maker, and sell 1 BTC? Without understanding how their technology works, you will be taking a risk by assuming that it will work.

Their documentations says:


This means that BarterDex will only work with a small number of coins.

I think David Mondrus' idea to store research results on the blockchain, for immutability, is brilliant.

https://trive.news/ doesn't fit into the categories mentioned, except loosely as a game, but then again, we are unique in our approach.

Thank-you for the excellent OP.
This is certainly an exciting new space.
I kind of like the "wild west" feel.

Don't buy any snakeoil there, Pilgrim.
Walk away from the scam-coin and nobody gets hurt.

:-D

Cool. I enjoyed reading your thread post because it is very very informative. I did not know much about the nodes which you spoke here, that was added knowledge to me. Don’t know when does these so called innovative people will actually think in innovative way to run the successful ICO programs. If things goes on like this then it could be worst in the future.

This is why many countries are stepping forward to legalise the ICO with licenses and try to protect the national economy. Also there is no need of knowing much about ICO which is fake because that we will known just by looking at the crap whitepaper they always publish.

Hey jlp, your input into ICO's and your insights regarding to the potential of gaming and gambling are great. I was wondering however, what do you think about Crypto 'hedge funds' ICO's such as Crypto20? Do you think there's any potential there? Apparently they have a tangible platform and tangible results, and overall they seem promising. What's your take on them? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the detailed description of the current situation.I think that the market is overheated and worthy projects will no longer

From Russian ICO I look closely at SONM and WAVES. Sonm is already in my portfolio. Sonm released an updated roadmap yesterday, good project.

Thank you for sharing this story, it was very useful for me.