Topic: 3 kinds of ICOs — Protect yourself - page 15. (Read 13644 times)

It is not a problem. It is just old fashioned way of financial industry to work. New technologies bring new capabilities and efficiencies.

REGA users will pool risk premiums together and decide on payments if smth happens to community members.

I wouldn't call Bitcoin movement as a bubble, rather corrections. Nothing will happen to risk pools as the risk is distributed, all risks shouldn't realise at once. The volatility with currency happens all the time, for example some foreign currencies depreciated twice in some countries. We expect crypto volatility will decrease with time.

Mutual insurance companies lack technological efficiencies as insurtech solutions have.

Claim adjustment in crowdsurance is done by expert voting on the platform, they vote with their tokens. Tokens will be traded on the exchanges, anyone can become an expert and recieve incentive from part of premiums they process. Sorry you missed that point, cause didn't care to go deeper inside the concept.

Hello Leo Mor,

Are you saying that one of the problems of Mutual insurance is that the “investments assets that can chosen by a few people to invest into”? Why is that a problem? What are you proposing? Are you proposing that all REGA users invest the premium pool?

Are you saying that REGA will invest its premium pool into Bitcoin and Ethers? Bitcoin has had 4 bubbles. Nobody knows if this if the 5th bubble. It went down for 2 years in 2014 and 2015. What if that happens again? How will REGA pay its claims if it loses 40-50% of its premium pool?

You wrote: “The excessive funds are returned back to the community by paying premiums back.” Mutual insurance companies do this already. Even then, rarely are they or other insurance companies able to pay premiums back. That’s why mutual insurance companies are small in numbers.

When an insured makes a claim, an adjuster physically visits the insured, inspects the damage and tries to prevent insurance fraud by customers. Are you going to have a fleet of adjusters? How will you build this staff and manage them? How will they be paid?

Hello Leo Mor,

Not only did you claim business problems that do not exist, you are claiming that I wrote things that I did not.

- I never wrote that “decentralized insurance is not needed”. Re-read what I wrote.
- I never wrote “that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money”. Provide the quote. In past comments, I pointed out a poll of Bitcointalk users, the majority of which voted that they do not believe in Bitcoin banks. I did not tell them to vote that way. But if you’re investing in a crypto bank, you should be aware of this. I assume that they voted that way because it is risky to centralize your money, such as in an exchange (dozens have been hacked and stolen from) or investment fund ($50 million stolen from DAO). Even Andreas Antonopoulos, the biggest optimist of Bitcoin, warned about creating a “honey pot”.
- I never wrote the “Blockchain is not needed because there is MC and VISA to transfer money”. Provide the quote. I wrote in the OP:


Blockchain is needed for many applications, which I cited. It takes several days and a lot of fees to withdraw from gambling sites. Crypto is a great solution for replacing credit or debit cards at gambling sites.
- I never wrote “that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers”. Provide the quote.
- Decentralizing is a feature. You need to explain what benefits it creates for your application. Customers do not care about features. They care about benefits, such as saving time or money. REGA’s customers will not save money if they do not invest the premium pool properly.

Decentralizing a currency provides benefits to the currency, such as no single entity (government) can control it, shut it down or print more of it. Decentralizing is needed to create the blockchain and maintain the integrity of the ledgers for a cryptocurrency. Decentralizing is needed for Proof of Work, Proof of Stake, Delegated Proof of Stake or Proof of Importance. Without decentralization, you would not be able to create a crypto currency.

Now that decentralization has created a crypto currency, what are the benefits of the crypto currency over existing currencies? It can be transferred much faster and cheaper than bank wire transfers, Western Union or credit/debit cards at gambling sites. In the long run, it should be better at storing value than fiat currency because governments keep printing more fiat. It is better at storing value than gold in some respects, such as divisibility and cost of storage. These are the benefits ultimately.

You want to create an insurer (or insurers) by decentralizing the stakeholders. (Mutual insurance companies have already decentralized stakeholders.) Now that you have created an insurer, what are the benefits of your insurer over existing insurers?  

Based on your approach and method, it has flaws, and investors should be aware of these flaws.

You haven’t been able to show how the flaws are not flaws. This is what you should be doing to win the confidence of investors.

Nobody buys Bitcoin because it is decentralized. People buy it because it stores value and transfers value faster and cheaper than fiat.

Hello!

I am sorry, sir, but your words make me doubt that you support all that this community stands for - decentralization.

Don't get me wrong, but what you are trying to communicate:
-that the decentralized insurance is not needed, because there are centralized insurance companies
- that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money.
-that Blockchain is not needed, because there is MC and VISA to transfer money
-that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers.

You vote for government control and centralized corporate structures such as banks and insurance companies

Sorry, but that was the last thing i expected to hear on Bitcointalk.

There are only a few applications that make a lot of sense for the blockchain: transfer of value (currency), store of value, remittances (disrupt Western Union and bank wire transfers), smart contracts, gaming and gambling. These applications will disrupt their respective industries, because the blockchain will provide a lot of cost-savings or time-savings to the users. There might be other applications that make sense that I missed, but applications proposed by many ICOs do not make sense. Jesus Coin is an extreme example, but there are applications that fall across the spectrum from Jesus Coin to Bitcoin.

Good day, Leo Mor,

1) I never said that the sharing economy is not a trend. I said that there is no such thing as a risk sitting on a parking lot and unused 90% of the time, which is what a car is.
2) Sharing is already intrinsic in insurance. Insurance cannot exist if people do not share risk. Insurance equates to sharing risk. Insurance is one of the first industries to start sharing, starting hundreds or thousands of years ago, when villagers shared the risk by pooling their money together to pay the unfortunate. That’s why many insurance companies have names that start with “Mutual”. "Mutual" insurance companies evolved from people pooling money together to share risk. REGA Crowdsurance is trying to make the reader think that they came up with this idea of sharing risks, which is misleading. "Mutual insurance" companies are already doing much of what REGA wants to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_insurance :  3) These people are supporting the creation of one or more entities into insurers. There’s nothing wrong with that. New insurers are created every day.
4) Vitalik moved to Canada at age 6 and grew up in Canada. Then they started Ethereum in Switzerland. The risks involved has nothing to do with where a person is born. It is related to the country's modus operandi, culture and especially the country's law enforcement. Someone born in Denmark but running an ICO in another country without extradition agreements, where he is immune to punishment from other countries (and from his new country), will much more likely exaggerate and claim anything he wants on his ICO.
5) I have never bought an insurance policy for the strict purpose of obeying rules. I bought insurance because it is a service. If you’re not doing this, then you need to shop around among the thousands of insurers.
6) Yes, the returns from investing the premium pool goes to the insurance company. But if the insurance company cannot invest wisely, they can go bankrupt or fail to pay claims, which hurts the insured. Many insurance companies lose money on underwriting and make up the loss from the investments. REGA or its users will have to do something similar. Who is going to invest the premium pool? REGA or its users? For you to guarantee that you will always be profitable from underwriting is naive. Almost all insurance companies lose money from underwriting in some or many years. Rarely are any insurance companies able to repay premiums because nothing happened to the insured. REGA’s business model is flawed if it is assuming that it will do this.
7) You are claiming a business problem that does not exist. What corruption? There are tens of thousands of insurance companies competing against each other vigorously. The regulations are for the protection of the insured, to ensure that the insurance company has enough capital to pay off claims, to ensure that they do not squander it and to ensure that the insurance company does not take excessive risk by putting the premium pool into derivatives or leveraged bets.

some Ico's are without a doubt jaw dropping. for me scam Ico's are obvious you can easily see that through the whitepaper and the developers resume.

In general, there is a reason in your words. I just want to add from my own experience that it is important how the team responds to technical questions and questions about comparing with other projects - do they really know their competitors and their project?

Good day, sir!
I would like to argue with you on that.

1) The sharing economy is a definite trend. Many scientific researches admit that. Car sharing is having a boom currently. AirBnB grows very fast.
2) Sharing economy is a definitely applicable for insurance industry, as Vitalik Buterin mentioned "Decentralized insurance is big if it can succeed"
3) Many insurance people such as Head of the biggest Insurance company in Russia - Sberbank Insurance, Hannes Chopra, Jake Diner professional from insurtech space and Vince Chan from Creta Ventures supported the concept. Team members that doing the project are having MBA from the University of Chicago the famous business school.
4) Many people from Blockchain community are from the same country. Vitalik was born here too.
5) On REGA insured are those who need the coverage for risk, not those who buy policies just to obey the rules. It is a service not an obligation
6) The assets invested by Insurance companies are the source of profit for Insurance company, not for the insured. Those funds have to belong to the community not to corporate structures gaining profit out of those. REGA's concept is not to hold too much funds on the balance sheet to gain profit from those, but actually provide service for insured and repay risk premiums back, if nothing happened with the community members.
7) Crowdsurance platform on Blockchain is more efficient than any insurance company drawning in regulation and corruption.

Thx for your feedback anyway.

A mutual insurance company is an insurance company owned entirely by its policyholders. Any profits earned by a mutual insurance company are either retained within the company or rebated to policyholders in the form of dividend distributions or reduced future premiums.

Rega Crowdsurance is trying to mislead you.  Their website state:


Currently, few cars and homes are shared. Cars and bikes are parked and unused 90% of the time. Therefore, there is an opportunity to increase utilization by sharing them. This is not applicable to insurance. Risks are already shared with insurance companies. There is no such thing as a risk sitting on your driveway, waiting to be used. When you buy insurance from anyone, you are automatically sharing the risk.

The way to reduce the money you pay, is to increase competition. There are already tens of thousands of insurance companies and there are bankruptcies (insolvencies) every year. Google it. They go bankrupt because they are NOT charging the customers enough to cover the risks that the insurer is taking on. This implies that customers can be paying too little already.

A crypto currency speeds up and lowers cost for bank wire transfers. A crypto currency eliminates the high cost and multi-day withdrawal from gambling sites. The key to success in insurance is not related to the currency. A new currency does NOTHING for the insured nor does it improve an insurer’s operating costs or COMBINED RATIO, which is one factor to profitability.

Their white paper states:


Does Rega Crowdsurance think that their 20 years experience in risk assessment is superior to Berkshire Hathaway’s 60 years experience in risk assessment?  Even though AIG has 100 years of experience in risk assessment, they almost went bankrupt.

What makes Rega Crowdsurance think they know more than anyone else in how much to charge you to insure your car against the next accident?

Even if Rega Crowdsurance thinks they know risk assessment, there is another major factor to profitability:  KNOWING HOW TO INVEST. Let’s say you are an insurer and you collect $100 million of premiums, which is called the PREMIUM POOL. You won’t have any claims until the next hurricane. What you do with the premium pool is critical. You cannot let it sit there to collect dust. You have to invest it. Where and how are you going to invest it? Quite often, insurance companies lose money from underwriting (risk assessment) and make up the loss from their investments. The majority of profits for Berkshire Hathaway comes from how the premium pool is invested. What makes you think Rega Crowdsurance knows how to invest?

Their white paper states:


Yes, there are insurers: other users. GEICO has had no intermediaries nor brokers for 70 years. Other insurance companies exist without brokers.

If you are a Rega Crowdsurance user, you will be an insurer or insured. If you are an insurer, are you going to go through the hassle of complying with the multitude of state government regulations on insurers?

If you are an insured, is the state government going to make sure that Rega Crowdsurance is properly capitalized so that they will have enough to fully reimburse you and all of the insured when your cars are destroyed?

Their white paper addresses regulations by stating this:


Most of this is verbose. The rest is misleading. Regulations of insurance is not related to illegal activities or money laundering. They are there to make sure that the insurer has enough money to pay all of the claims.

Rega Crowdsurance is extremely is extremely high risk, unless it is being started by former executives of GEICO, State Farm, etc.

Also, they are in a country without extradition agreements. If they screw you over, they are immune from punishment from your government. This makes them more invulnerable and likely to make any claim they want.