Topic: $5000 per coin will never happen if PoW mining is allowed to continue - page 11. (Read 10118 times)

Please show me a PoS distribution model that you consider more "fair" than Bitcoin/Litecoin/Dogecoin...

Again, you are confused if you think PoW distribution is fair, and PoS must be unfair. I admit PoW distribution is "easy", but it might not be fair. PoS distribution requires more thought and design, but a properly designed distribution can be made more "fair" than a PoW distribution.

Incorrect, PoS system are perfectly functional in securing the network, processing transactions and producing currency supply, there is nothing PoW can do that PoS can't do better.

Thinking the bigger picture, making network secure is just a technical annoyance we need to deal with.  The perceived fairness of money creation & distribution is many times more important.  

Similarly, nowadays even though rich people can invest in gold mines to acquire more gold, mining gold is still considered much more honest than printing paper dollars by most people. And by centralization the Fed can make their digital dollar network fairly secure with much lower cost than PoS.

Just tell me, if not the Bitcoin eco-system, who is paying for miner profit, pool fee, asic hardware cost/profit, electricity? are these money not leaving the eco-system? I'm pretty sure they are sitting in the bank accounts of the above, and not benefiting the eco-system.

and Yes, I am saying these money that are used to pay the above, will be instead used for the benefit of the Bitcoin eco-system.

Your thinking is correct , but if the bitcoin will lose the PoW part I think it will lose all  its (actual) "price" and ( I don't hope this) its value il drop to $ 100/150.

This will be an hard fork and I think not all the users/miners will accept this fork.

on point, with out any of the pools/miners/ hardware ext there will not be any bit coins!

It sounds like you are just saying that the $500 million figure is roughly the current value of coins mined in one year and that miners will spend an amount slightly less then that on mining. However, there is no explanation on why you keep saying this money is "leaving the Bitcoin eco-system". Are you trying to say that if Bitcoin used POS, then this $500 million would instead be used to purchase coins?

Edit: It may help if you define the "Bitcoin eco-system".

It is not an error, but just a system that is behind the times. Would you be still using VHS tapes, when netflix streaming is available?

If Bitcoin switch to PoS system, all its rules and function will still be the same, just that it will no longer expend $500 million USD in value every year, to pay miners/pools/hardware vendors/electricity companies. All that money will stay in the Bitcoin eco-system, for the benefit of the eco-system.

#kokojie
So did you think the PoW system ( at the moment) is an error ? Which is the better algorithm for you ?

I think you are confused, PoS is just another way to secure the network, there's basically no difference from how PoW secure the network, except PoS uses stake instead of ASIC, and stake doesn't expend resources, that's all.

All other rules of cryptocurrency still applies, Bitcoin's rules will still be exactly the same if switched to a PoS system.

I've been thinking about PoS, just couldn't figure out the difference between PoS and a would-be digital dollar issued by the Fed.

I think he's probably a miner shill, these people don't care about Bitcoin eco-system, they care only about profits. They even dare to claim their useless PoW mining give Bitcoin value.

Saying Bitcoin derive value from useless PoW mining, is an insult to Satoshi Nakamoto, the developers that contributed to Bitcoin, and the Bitcoin community.

Not really true.  The same thing is said of gold miners, in that they "set the price of gold" and that "gold can never fall below the costs of mining it", but time and again this 'rule' is violated.  The OP has it right.

That is because any new money is basically transferred to pay pools/asic hardware/electricity company, barely any is left to benefit the Bitcoin eco-system. If we end PoW mining today, there would be $500 million new money annually available purely for the benefit of Bitcoin eco-system, how do you think that will affect the price?

Excellent post and I think you know the answer.  Bitcoin is not "free".  Seigniorage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage) is, as you say, 10% a year.  So do the math:  in 7 years the stock of money in Bitcoin will be halved, unless, as you say, new money comes in.  But new money is getting harder to find.  I myself--a Bitcoin long who has two Bitcoin exchange accounts, one in the USA, one in the UK--have yet to buy any Bitcoin because the transactions have been canceled (coinbase.com) or slow in arriving.  I may drop out of Bitcoin if I don't get bitcoin soon. And it took me 44 hours to install Armory, my PC wallet, and I am told that is not unusual.  Only 7000 full Bitcoin nodes exist--a tiny number that makes the Bitcoin P2P network very fragile. Further, the chief scientist Gavin A. has stated himself he sees a day when users get charged for using the P2P network, and already as you know there is a minimum recommended transaction fee for every bitcoin send.  Further G.A. has said anonymity may not always be the same as today in future versions of the Bitcoin P2P network, which will make this network less attractive to the principle people who use bitcoin and don't just horde it for speculation, and that would be black marketeers.

In short, Bitcoin is a bit of a Ponzi scheme for black marketeers working in the dark market.  And, as others have pointed out, the transaction fees in established payment schemes that use fiat currencies, like PayPal, like Western Union, and the like, while high, at least have the advantage of being transparent.  In Bitcoin, these fees are hidden.  Bitcoin is not free of transaction costs, is not anonymous, depends on a fragile P2P network, and is hard to convert to and from fiat currencies.

They are an unnecessary and damaging part of the community. They extract value from cryptocurrency eco-systems and transfer them to pools/hardware vendor/electric company.

PoS eco-systems has proven that PoW mining is not needed.

Now a days getting 500 is quite hard then 5000 looks like a dream.

It's the same whether they sell to new people, or existing Bitcoin holders. Just think about it, if PoW mining expense didn't exist, then the new money would be entirely benefiting the eco-system
, instead of of paying the miners/pools/hardware vendors/electricity company, and barely any left to benefit the eco-system.

Nevertheless, mining community is part of the cryptocurrency community, every dollar they invested in equipment purchasing or electricity power is a dollar invested in cryptocurrency ecosystem. Bitcoin happens to be the biggest part of this ecosystem.

Whether the miners eventually  "cash out" by selling the mined coins is a different issue, because same argument can be made to speculators and hodlers.