$55 - really? Really? Really? - page 3.

mestar

sr. member

Activity: 407

Merit: 250

Quote from: Twerka on April 11, 2013, 05:25:00 PM

Do you want a healthy price for bitcoins? Then do not sell, simple as that.

My guess at the Nash equilibrium in this speculation zero sum game would be this:

Try to get everyone else not to sell, then sell them yourself first. Telling others to "hold" while you are selling is optional.

mestar

sr. member

Activity: 407

Merit: 250

Quote from: lemonginger on April 12, 2013, 12:42:54 AM

For the millionth time in these forums. The price of BTC has absolutely nothing to do with the price of mining. The difficulty will adjust towards making mining a break-even venture. The difficulty rate lags the price due to the time it takes to bring miners on and offline. The price is solely determined by supply and demand.

The higher price of bitcoin brings in more miners, until the least profitable ones are at about zero profitability.

This means more electricity is used. In other words, total cost of mining goes up. There is a lag in this process, as you can't buy hardware in a minute.

Once more miners join, they all have to pay for their running costs in currencies other than bitcoin. That means they must sell their BTC on the exchanges. This creates a selling pressure on the exchanges, and keeps the bitcoin price in check.

So, yes, the price of BTC has absolutely everything to do with the (total) price of mining.

Lore

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 0

Quote from: lemonginger on April 12, 2013, 12:42:54 AM

For the millionth time in these forums. The price of BTC has absolutely nothing to do with the price of mining. The difficulty will adjust towards making mining a break-even venture. The difficulty rate lags the price due to the time it takes to bring miners on and offline. The price is solely determined by supply and demand.

You contradicted yourself in your own post... Let me help you out... In the PAST, the value of BTC has moved towards the point of making mining a break even venture as the difficulty level adjusts. Like every broker will tell you though, past performance is no guarantee future results.

ASIC mining hardware is a major disruption in the mining community. It is vastly out performing widely available, consumer-level hardware. It is very expensive and only useful to mine bitcoins. It is currently concentrating the new found wealth in the hands of very few people. The expense and single, functioned nature of the mining equipment is quite unique in bitcoin history. It may take quite some time for this situation to stabilize.

While I can agree with your final "supply and demand" statement, those concepts trivialize all the chaos and complexity underneath to such a degree it's pathetic. Why not just take the last step and say the price is solely determined by economics?

bitsalame

donator

Activity: 714

Merit: 510

Preaching the gospel of Satoshi

Quote from: Dangolbery on April 12, 2013, 01:06:25 AM

Quote from: johnyj on April 11, 2013, 03:50:50 PM

Someone is dumping hard to drive price down in order to buy a lot at low price

The electricity cost for GPU miner is the fundamental factor for bitcoin price, currently 1G hash gives 0.06 bitcoin per day, using $3 electricity, that is about 50 USD for 1 bitcoin

This is complete vodo stupidity. If the price goes to 20USD then most people turn off their equipment and difficulty is reduced and you can mine bitcoins for 19USD. If the price goes to 1USD, you will be able to mine for 0.95USD or whatever the general consensus on what the profit margin should be.

Mining does not set the price.

It doesn't set the price, but there is going to be serious problems if it stays lower than the cost to produce them.
That's a big incentive for miners to NOT sell them lower than the cost.

Dangolbery

newbie

Activity: 49

Merit: 0

Quote from: johnyj on April 11, 2013, 03:50:50 PM

Someone is dumping hard to drive price down in order to buy a lot at low price

The electricity cost for GPU miner is the fundamental factor for bitcoin price, currently 1G hash gives 0.06 bitcoin per day, using $3 electricity, that is about 50 USD for 1 bitcoin

This is complete vodo stupidity. If the price goes to 20USD then most people turn off their equipment and difficulty is reduced and you can mine bitcoins for 19USD. If the price goes to 1USD, you will be able to mine for 0.95USD or whatever the general consensus on what the profit margin should be.

Mining does not set the price.

Seagull

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Quote from: lemonginger on April 12, 2013, 12:42:54 AM

For the millionth time in these forums. The price of BTC has absolutely nothing to do with the price of mining.

This is so obviously true.

I could pay people good money to polish turds all day long. Doesn't mean that they are going to be worth anything at the end of the week.

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

For the millionth time in these forums. The price of BTC has absolutely nothing to do with the price of mining. The difficulty will adjust towards making mining a break-even venture. The difficulty rate lags the price due to the time it takes to bring miners on and offline. The price is solely determined by supply and demand.

lophie

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1001

Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: johnyj on April 11, 2013, 03:50:50 PM

Someone is dumping hard to drive price down in order to buy a lot at low price

The electricity cost for GPU miner is the fundamental factor for bitcoin price, currently 1G hash gives 0.06 bitcoin per day, using $3 electricity, that is about 50 USD for 1 bitcoin

Was gonna open a new thread just for that. Really merchants that hold BTC should base the prices on that, well maybe add a little.... But now speculation based on Gox price!

Frost

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 508

4 USD per bitcoin next days... be prepared to grab some cheap coins which might doulble or trible in 2014 if this game repeats.

botlove

newbie

Activity: 49

Merit: 0

its not as simple as one thing, and it's not liek bitcoin market is PWNed by a few players. its just that people get out of the way sometimes when they see somebody playing games

it'll get fixed, by those willing to figure out how to profit off that game

opentoe

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Personal text my ass....

Quote from: Luckybit on April 11, 2013, 06:43:43 PM

Quote from: opentoe on April 11, 2013, 03:32:24 PM

Seriously, what the hell is going on? I feel VERY lucky. On one hand I was able to sell my main coin supply on the 9th I think it was for like $247 / each. I refresh clean once in a while and that was the time. I told myself, once I see it go over $250, sell it all. I sold them all that day and a couple days later money was deposited into my bank account. The next day coin started to drop big time. Most places ceased operations, stopped business or just suspended trading until further notice. Then I had another whole wallet which I kind of forget about and tried really hard to sell those but no such luck. I pretty much have to hang on to them for a while and see what happens. My stupid fault for not remembering. That's a bad thing to do in this business.

Sorry, just wanted to post something positive in my world for once. I rarely EVER get to do that.

So what the hell is making coin go from $250 to $55 in 2 days or less? Yes, you can respond with sarcastic, anal retentive childish remarks if it makes you feel better.

How much have you been paid in Bitcoin by the Bitcoin hacker mafia to make this post?

Sorry, don't know who that person is.

Malawi

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

One bitcoin to rule them all!

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: botlove on April 11, 2013, 04:29:11 PM

somebody accidentally triggered a massive bot panic, that's all.

please sell me cheap coins, I'm buying. =)

i'd rather lose my money on bitcoins than make profit with centralized privately owned bank notes.
but in the end, those with the stomach to endure the swings will prevail victorious. it's not every day that a massive infrastructure for processing currency transactions is deployed internationally.... nobody will break it. =)

except it is fairly ridiculous to compare "buying low, selling high" to ponzi schemes. it really makes absolutely no sense.

buying into something at 100$ then selling when it gets to 200$ before it drops to 90$ isn't a fucking ponzi scheme.

a ponzi scheme pays person A with person B-C-D-E...-ZZZZZZ's money. That is the ONLY way A gets any money. Obviously as the number of people in the pyramid increases, the people at the last level have less and less of a chance at getting folks into it, until the last tier there is nobody left.

Not really - In a Ponzi there may well be actual trading and value adding, but they pay out more then they make to attract more funds to have bigger leverage/market domination. You only hear about the ponzies that go on to long and crumbles, or the ones who misses the market and have their books combed trough.

Still - bitcoin is not a ponzi or pyramid - it's just very new at having a value at all, and very volatile.

opentoe

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Personal text my ass....

Quote from: Blazr on April 11, 2013, 03:34:27 PM

Don't take the price seriously at the moment, MtGox (the largest exchange by far, at one point handled 80% of BTC trade) has stopped trading due to massive volume from new users. The price will recover, perhaps not as high as it was before though.

Why all the new users? Has Bitcoin gotten free/new exposure on a national level or something? I'm trying to find out what has changed to warrant these fluctuations and I can't find any.

bitsalame

donator

Activity: 714

Merit: 510

Preaching the gospel of Satoshi

Quote from: cdog on April 11, 2013, 11:43:18 PM

Quote from: johnyj on April 11, 2013, 03:50:50 PM

The electricity cost for GPU miner is the fundamental factor for bitcoin price, currently 1G hash gives 0.06 bitcoin per day, using $3 electricity, that is about 50 USD for 1 bitcoin

This, smart money says it cant go below $50. I might not be worth $250 either, but it wont go below $50.

I wish I could send you kudos.

cdog

hero member

Activity: 1036

Merit: 500

Quote from: johnyj on April 11, 2013, 03:50:50 PM

The electricity cost for GPU miner is the fundamental factor for bitcoin price, currently 1G hash gives 0.06 bitcoin per day, using $3 electricity, that is about 50 USD for 1 bitcoin

This, smart money says it cant go below $50. I might not be worth $250 either, but it wont go below $50.

Impaler

sr. member

Activity: 826

Merit: 250

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: revans on April 11, 2013, 11:09:30 PM

In theory. In practise the vast majority of bitcoin talk revolves around people hoping to become millionaires for doing nothing of any societal value; just like the banksters they hate.

Spot on. Frankly I find it amusing that the same people who saw the price rise at an exponential rate find it so inconceivable that it could drop by a similar degree, the level of naivete is just staggering.

Mike Christ

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Quote from: revans on April 11, 2013, 11:09:30 PM

In theory. In practise the vast majority of bitcoin talk revolves around people hoping to become millionaires for doing nothing of any societal value; just like the banksters they hate.

When you raise them one way, they tend to stick with it. Change starts at home Tongue

Malawi

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

One bitcoin to rule them all!

Quote from: bitsalame on April 11, 2013, 10:30:04 PM

Think about that a minute and you will realize that you just shot yourself on your foot.
That very statement of yours shows how riskier was to be involved in bitcoins in its genesis and how pointless is this discussion when you lack of the most basic understandings of how the world works.
You are just wasting useless rhetoric to dissimulate your ignorance.

In short, bitcoin is not a ponzi (wtf, I am tired of hearing this crap), and it is not a pyramid.
Both terms have very specific meanings of very specific modus operandi of scams, they are not synonyms and they can't be used as blanket terms to mention anything that seems to be scam-like. IF bitcoins were ever designed to be a scam, it would still wouldn't fit either modalities.
Please, either speak with propriety or shut up.

It's all about the Dunning-Kruger effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

romerun

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

as long as gox queue still long, it shall rise

revans

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Twerka on April 11, 2013, 11:07:32 PM

The greed of people make them think it's a pyramid scheme. Who tell you guys you will get "more money" with bitcoins?

The objetive of BTC was to create them and buy things (an economy separated of the actual), not to be created and changed to dolars...

In theory. In practise the vast majority of bitcoin talk revolves around people hoping to become millionaires for doing nothing of any societal value; just like the banksters they hate.

Topic: $55 - really? Really? Really? - page 3. (Read 11857 times)