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Topic: A public plea for help regarding Bitcoinica and my 24,841 BTC - page 2. (Read 9029 times)

legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
Even the whole idea that their backups are only useful for restoring the "entire cloud", I just don't buy that.  The news recently reported they hit 100k customers - let's say each customer has an average of 30 gigs of data.  Do they back up their entire cloud to a single 3-petabyte file and that's why it can only be restored on an all-or-nothing basis?  What kind of media do they use to store a file this big?
I don't know Rackspace's procedures nor your procedures; but I can offer you a clean explanation of not being able to restore the individual backups. I'm kinda familiar how other kinda-cloud provider does backups.

All the backups are encrypted with a transactional key. There are separate keys for each VM and for each incremental backup. The keys are stored only as long as the accounting record for the VM is open. Once the VM is deleted and summarized for the purpose of charging all transactional keys are deleted zeroized (I forgot to use the proper lingo).

The encryption key deletion zeroization is a security precaution against many inside attacks as well as against compromised backup media.

The above procedure is actually an important selling point. If you don't do that internaly for the 3rd party data then you should start doing this as soon as practical to lower your own liability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware-based_full_disk_encryption
http://www.hgst.com/internal-drives/self-encrypting-drives/
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
Please help me.
I have 24,841 bitcoins on deposit with Bitcoinica.
I have provided them with my full and complete account history including every transaction since day one.
There is no question as to exactly how much I am owed. (I'm happy to provide proof to other trusted entities)
I have patiently been asking for them for my money back for months, but they have refused to return even a single Bitcoin to me.
// snip...

I will post another update once I know more. I'm guessing that payments will have to take a forced 30% cut. This has cost everyone a lot of money, time and stress dealing with this mess. We are actively losing money from dealing with the payouts.

In the main thread he updated it to they still have 2/3 of the claim money. so ~ another 80,000 BTC.

Good luck!

hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 500
Rackspace's cloud keeps backup of all the could, it can't be used to recover data of a single client. That backup is kept in the event of emergency if anything drastic happens to Rackspace's infrastructure, that's why they offer optional offsite backup at extra if a customer requires it on individual level
Zhou has said before that they offered Rackspace $10k to help recover deleted serves; Rackspace simply couldn't help. RS would have to nuke all their cloud client's servers and restore them back (which also can be assumed isn't instantaneous process)

It's hard for me to picture a scenario where restoring a backup would "require" them to completely disrupt their clients' servers.  Surely they can restore it to other equipment that's not being used?  I mean, when I say I can "flip over backwards" and restore my backups for somebody, it doesn't mean I"m going to shut down all my services because I'm pretending that the backup can only be restored to the same hardware it was taken from - it means I'm going to grab some unused machine and restore to that instead.

Even the whole idea that their backups are only useful for restoring the "entire cloud", I just don't buy that.  The news recently reported they hit 100k customers - let's say each customer has an average of 30 gigs of data.  Do they back up their entire cloud to a single 3-petabyte file and that's why it can only be restored on an all-or-nothing basis?  What kind of media do they use to store a file this big?

At least if they have made the claim that they offered $10k and it wasn't accepted, that's better than what I had thought before, which was that no significant efforts were made (I don't follow every post on this topic).

I call bullshit, no half arse company(and mind you rackspace is fairly competent) would reject $10k for such a recovery job which they should have procedures in place to do.



Yeah, none of that adds up at all.. They could restore the VM's if they really wanted too, there is no technical barrier for them to do so that money can't fix, that's for certain.  I mean even if they were doing LUN level backup and had to recover 10, 50, 100 customers or something in order to pull the VM's out of the LUN, they could have restored it to some scratch space took what they needed and scrapped the rest.

We use ZFS for all our VM's,  if something like that happened on our systems, we mount the earlier snapshot and boot the VM right back up again in a sandbox, take whatever we need, and that's it.

Rackspace probably has similar technologies, worst case scenario they have to restore 100 customers to a sandbox,  10k, 20k, 50k, 100k,  any of these amounts would be trivial in this case.  I'm sure if you got escalated to the right level of management it would have happened, had they acted QUICKLY and DECISIVELY, which unfortunately, we know is NOT what they do..

Which is why this unfortunately does all look like the long con, none of this shit adds up, its just one amateur hour shit show that just keeps going and going and going..


hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
Rackspace's cloud keeps backup of all the could, it can't be used to recover data of a single client. That backup is kept in the event of emergency if anything drastic happens to Rackspace's infrastructure, that's why they offer optional offsite backup at extra if a customer requires it on individual level
Zhou has said before that they offered Rackspace $10k to help recover deleted serves; Rackspace simply couldn't help. RS would have to nuke all their cloud client's servers and restore them back (which also can be assumed isn't instantaneous process)

It's hard for me to picture a scenario where restoring a backup would "require" them to completely disrupt their clients' servers.  Surely they can restore it to other equipment that's not being used?  I mean, when I say I can "flip over backwards" and restore my backups for somebody, it doesn't mean I"m going to shut down all my services because I'm pretending that the backup can only be restored to the same hardware it was taken from - it means I'm going to grab some unused machine and restore to that instead.

Even the whole idea that their backups are only useful for restoring the "entire cloud", I just don't buy that.  The news recently reported they hit 100k customers - let's say each customer has an average of 30 gigs of data.  Do they back up their entire cloud to a single 3-petabyte file and that's why it can only be restored on an all-or-nothing basis?  What kind of media do they use to store a file this big?

At least if they have made the claim that they offered $10k and it wasn't accepted, that's better than what I had thought before, which was that no significant efforts were made (I don't follow every post on this topic).

Maybe there are other reasons they are refusing to restore the data. They are in the US and can be pressured by the feds and we know how much the US government loves bitcoin.....

I imagine a series of massive hacks would destroy confidence dont you ?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000


I almost forgot to mention, I know people who work at rackspace and I've talked to them.  Your logs & database being deleted is effectively a non-issue, it's a pain to recover but you can bet that they have the capability of recovering every last byte of missing information.
This has bugged me as well.  Until this episode I had the impression that Rackspace was a serious hosting provider.  Not some garage with a couple of racks on UPS and a fat ADSL line.  A serious hosting provider keep multiple backups of customer data off-site, because losing a lot of customer data due to some catastrophic event means losing their business.  Unlinking it from a web page just makes the data a bit more inconvenient to get to.  Impossible for the customer, but in no way impossible for Rackspace.  The data may be older than current, but I find it hard to believe that off-site backups were instantly deleted along with the servers.  Backup systems just aren't built for easy deletion.

Perhaps someone from Bitoinica can comment on how they have worked with Rackspace to rescue data?

We have talked to a manager and he confirms that no data can be recovered. We have even offered a $10,000 tip for any information recovered, but later they got the bad news again.

Rackspace shouldn't be used for serious applications, because of the following "features":

- You can own all servers in an account with an email.
- You can't force someone to log out, not even any Rackspace employee.
- You can suspend the servers through customer support. They will say it's safe. But anyone can delete the servers.
- When you delete something, even in Cloud Files, it's permanent.
- When the thief is in your account, you can't do anything to prevent him from doing anything destructive.

For these reasons, I personally will never use Rackspace Cloud again unless they address all of these issues. AWS is way more secure than them.

more discussion re this following in the thread after that post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.937829
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Rackspace's cloud keeps backup of all the could, it can't be used to recover data of a single client. That backup is kept in the event of emergency if anything drastic happens to Rackspace's infrastructure, that's why they offer optional offsite backup at extra if a customer requires it on individual level
Zhou has said before that they offered Rackspace $10k to help recover deleted serves; Rackspace simply couldn't help. RS would have to nuke all their cloud client's servers and restore them back (which also can be assumed isn't instantaneous process)

It's hard for me to picture a scenario where restoring a backup would "require" them to completely disrupt their clients' servers.  Surely they can restore it to other equipment that's not being used?  I mean, when I say I can "flip over backwards" and restore my backups for somebody, it doesn't mean I"m going to shut down all my services because I'm pretending that the backup can only be restored to the same hardware it was taken from - it means I'm going to grab some unused machine and restore to that instead.

Even the whole idea that their backups are only useful for restoring the "entire cloud", I just don't buy that.  The news recently reported they hit 100k customers - let's say each customer has an average of 30 gigs of data.  Do they back up their entire cloud to a single 3-petabyte file and that's why it can only be restored on an all-or-nothing basis?  What kind of media do they use to store a file this big?

At least if they have made the claim that they offered $10k and it wasn't accepted, that's better than what I had thought before, which was that no significant efforts were made (I don't follow every post on this topic).

I call bullshit, no half arse company(and mind you rackspace is fairly competent) would reject $10k for such a recovery job which they should have procedures in place to do.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
Rackspace's cloud keeps backup of all the could, it can't be used to recover data of a single client. That backup is kept in the event of emergency if anything drastic happens to Rackspace's infrastructure, that's why they offer optional offsite backup at extra if a customer requires it on individual level
Zhou has said before that they offered Rackspace $10k to help recover deleted serves; Rackspace simply couldn't help. RS would have to nuke all their cloud client's servers and restore them back (which also can be assumed isn't instantaneous process)

It's hard for me to picture a scenario where restoring a backup would "require" them to completely disrupt their clients' servers.  Surely they can restore it to other equipment that's not being used?  I mean, when I say I can "flip over backwards" and restore my backups for somebody, it doesn't mean I"m going to shut down all my services because I'm pretending that the backup can only be restored to the same hardware it was taken from - it means I'm going to grab some unused machine and restore to that instead.

Even the whole idea that their backups are only useful for restoring the "entire cloud", I just don't buy that.  The news recently reported they hit 100k customers - let's say each customer has an average of 30 gigs of data.  Do they back up their entire cloud to a single 3-petabyte file and that's why it can only be restored on an all-or-nothing basis?  What kind of media do they use to store a file this big?

At least if they have made the claim that they offered $10k and it wasn't accepted, that's better than what I had thought before, which was that no significant efforts were made (I don't follow every post on this topic).
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
This is what strikes me as odd.

When the Bitcoinica servers were deleted, I wonder... "What's Rackspace's response to Bitcoinica's queries of 'we really need your help, surely you have a backup?"  Nowhere did I read the results of them pushing Rackspace for the backups.  You would think that if Rackspace doesn't keep backups for their own business continuity and that once someone pushes delete, data is gone forever, that that would be a significant public relations fiasco for Rackspace.  I find it hard to believe the data is truly gone... unless of course nobody asked.

Even at my payroll business, we take backups and we don't really offer restorations when people delete their own data because it's to save our ass not theirs, but if someone REALLY needed a restore because it meant hundreds of thousands of dollars to their customers and they were willing to pay a grand or two in fees to prove it, I'd flip over backwards for them and restore whatever the hell they want.  I am highly suspicious of the notion that the data was gone the moment it was deleted.  And the fact that screenshots were taken of the deletion and paraded around - just in case virtual servers being deleted sounded too stupid to be believable - makes it even more ridiculous to me.

When 40k BTC and 40k USD moves somewhere, I am amazed that we hear nothing of where it went - no BTC withdrawal address so we can track the coins - and I'm genuinely interested to hear how anybody got 40k USD out of MtGox instantly when the usual wait time is much longer.  Why isn't anybody telling us "our history shows it went out as a wire" or "our history shows it went out as a MtGox code and MtGox has frozen whoever redeemed it"...



Rackspace's cloud keeps backup of all the could, it can't be used to recover data of a single client. That backup is kept in the event of emergency if anything drastic happens to Rackspace's infrastructure, that's why they offer optional offsite backup at extra if a customer requires it on individual level
Zhou has said before that they offered Rackspace $10k to help recover deleted serves; Rackspace simply couldn't help. RS would have to nuke all their cloud client's servers and restore them back (which also can be assumed isn't instantaneous process)
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1008
1davout
Probably mtgox codes used at other exchanges.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1000
I was wondering how the hacker managed to withdraw such a large amount - so quickly - while honest MtGox customers have to wait weeks.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Wat
This is what strikes me as odd.

When the Bitcoinica servers were deleted, I wonder... "What's Rackspace's response to Bitcoinica's queries of 'we really need your help, surely you have a backup?"  Nowhere did I read the results of them pushing Rackspace for the backups.  You would think that if Rackspace doesn't keep backups for their own business continuity and that once someone pushes delete, data is gone forever, that that would be a significant public relations fiasco for Rackspace.

When 40k BTC and 40k USD moves somewhere, I am amazed that we hear nothing of where it went - no BTC withdrawal address so we can track the coins - and I'm genuinely interested to hear how anybody got 40k USD out of MtGox instantly when the usual wait time is much longer.  Why isn't anybody telling us "our history shows it went out as a wire" or "our history shows it went out as a MtGox code and MtGox has frozen whoever redeemed it"...



Lets all read this again...    Wink



This
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
You're fat, because you dont have any pics on FB
This is what strikes me as odd.

When the Bitcoinica servers were deleted, I wonder... "What's Rackspace's response to Bitcoinica's queries of 'we really need your help, surely you have a backup?"  Nowhere did I read the results of them pushing Rackspace for the backups.  You would think that if Rackspace doesn't keep backups for their own business continuity and that once someone pushes delete, data is gone forever, that that would be a significant public relations fiasco for Rackspace.

When 40k BTC and 40k USD moves somewhere, I am amazed that we hear nothing of where it went - no BTC withdrawal address so we can track the coins - and I'm genuinely interested to hear how anybody got 40k USD out of MtGox instantly when the usual wait time is much longer.  Why isn't anybody telling us "our history shows it went out as a wire" or "our history shows it went out as a MtGox code and MtGox has frozen whoever redeemed it"...



Lets all read this again...    Wink

vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
This is what strikes me as odd.

When the Bitcoinica servers were deleted, I wonder... "What's Rackspace's response to Bitcoinica's queries of 'we really need your help, surely you have a backup?"  Nowhere did I read the results of them pushing Rackspace for the backups.  You would think that if Rackspace doesn't keep backups for their own business continuity and that once someone pushes delete, data is gone forever, that that would be a significant public relations fiasco for Rackspace.  I find it hard to believe the data is truly gone... unless of course nobody asked.

Even at my payroll business, we take backups and we don't really offer restorations when people delete their own data because it's to save our ass not theirs, but if someone REALLY needed a restore because it meant hundreds of thousands of dollars to their customers and they were willing to pay a grand or two in fees to prove it, I'd flip over backwards for them and restore whatever the hell they want.  I am highly suspicious of the notion that the data was gone the moment it was deleted.  And the fact that screenshots were taken of the deletion and paraded around - just in case virtual servers being deleted sounded too stupid to be believable - makes it even more ridiculous to me.

When 40k BTC and 40k USD moves somewhere, I am amazed that we hear nothing of where it went - no BTC withdrawal address so we can track the coins - and I'm genuinely interested to hear how anybody got 40k USD out of MtGox instantly when the usual wait time is much longer.  Why isn't anybody telling us "our history shows it went out as a wire" or "our history shows it went out as a MtGox code and MtGox has frozen whoever redeemed it"...

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
Can we stop blaming those who invested due to promises made by bitcoinica ie. interest rates, safe holdings etc.

Its getting rediculous the constant blame on the clients and pointing out that they gambled and knew they could lose the earnings. In hindsight it allways looks like a bad decision but these bad decisions is not the fault of the client but only that of those who handled the client's money.

Guess what, no one would knowingly deposit their funds if they have any idea intially that its a gamble and they may/may not get their funds back so please stop fucking pressing the issue onto the clients ie. memorydealer in this case.
Are you familiar with the concept of root cause analysis?

It's a technique of examining mistakes in order to learn how to prevent them in the future. It's also a way that one can learn from the mistakes of others without needing to experience the mistake directly.

If one avoids examining all causes of a mistake because considering internal causes is called, "blaming the victim" the effectiveness of the technique is greatly reduced.
legendary
Activity: 945
Merit: 1003
...
I'm a core Bitcoin proselytizer.
I'm responsible partly or in full for:

www.Bitinstant.com
www.coinlab.com
www.lovebitcoins.org
www.ogrr.com
www.bitcoinchipin.com
www.memorydealers.com
National Bitcoin radio adds @ $2,800 a month for over the last year.
The Bitcoin Bet.
Bitcoin Billboard
Numerous national radio interviews.
Several more projects that are in the works including a Bitcoin competitor to newegg.com.

For the last 1.5 years I have spent every waking moment promoting Bitcoin,  and my 24,841 Bitcoins were to be used exactly for that.

Hacker, Tihan,  Zhou,  Patrick, Donald, Amir, or anyone else with access to my money,  please return it to
16HMoS4TryH7wWsAv2PtvxiHX8QGXMGczi

so that I can continue to effectively promote Bitcoin.
Returning my funds will likely make everyone's worth even more in the long run.
I promise I will continue using them to help advance Bitcoin.

Roger Ver
[email protected]
Cell +1-408-313-1853

I'm truely sorry for your loss, Roger. It really hurts to see a true pillar of the Bitcoin community suffer this kind of setback.

Sad.  Sad
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
Can we stop blaming those who invested due to promises made by bitcoinica ie. interest rates, safe holdings etc.

Its getting rediculous the constant blame on the clients and pointing out that they gambled and knew they could lose the earnings. In hindsight it allways looks like a bad decision but these bad decisions is not the fault of the client but only that of those who handled the client's money.

Guess what, no one would knowingly deposit their funds if they have any idea intially that its a gamble and they may/may not get their funds back so please stop fucking pressing the issue onto the clients ie. memorydealer in this case.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
Can I ask you why you have such large amount of money in a third party site?

I was attracted by the high interest rates and the money I thought I could earn by depositing bitcoins with them.
I never made a single trade on Bitcoinica.
I simply held a balance and collected interest.
Sad

I hope you will soon get at least rest of your coins back.
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
Roger, I'm sorry to hear of your loss. In the end, you can't really trust anyone else to keep your coins safe. Looking back, this answer was actually not very good:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.745976
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Haha, now to spread FUD (because that is what the forums are for now right?) MtGox is bitconica hacker

Pirate secretly owns MtGox and uses stolen Bitcoinica funds to spam the blockchain with SatoshiDice transactions.

Therefore, Bitcoin is DOOMED.

Quick, send me all your coins before the hackers steal your organs!

(How'd I do?)
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
roger if you don't mind my asking, was this the majority of your btc holdings?
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