Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 113. (Read 288348 times)

Exactly. Machines do not think, that's why machines cannot replace the complete political process nor every engineer, doctor, architect etc... And, also because machines do not think, machines won't become the dictators: it will be the ones who write their software.

As you say, he didn't answer to what I said, he answered to what he IMAGINED I said... because he didn't understand the fundamental aspect of my argument: machines do not think, they just follow orders, therefore someone controls machines (in this case, programmers).

I do know that, it's just a sympton of them being part of a cult. They are persistent even when they're proven wrong again and again, they do not follow logic. As I said before, I'm not trying to free their minds from the cult, just trying to contaminate their posts with reality in order to prevent new people reading the thread from falling into the cult.

And I'm doing it just for fun. I love to argue with zealots, they are SO funny! They do not follow logic so I use logic against their arguments. It's just too much fun to miss the opportunity!

He is not saying the machines are or will become the dictators. He is saying that the people that program the machine (or whoever decides how the machine is programmed) is in control.

If you answer to what he actually says, and not to what you imagine he says, the conversation will be more civil and productive.

When they invented the calculator, calculators didn't take over math. Machines help us do things better and more efficiently. You also conveniently ignored the very text you quoted in which he said that this wouldn't be a machine dictatorship. Your ignorance and associated fear are propelling you to continue this nonsense. Please attempt to employ your critical thinking skills before replying.

Honestly, there is no point arguing with this people. I have tried in other forums and they keep repeating the mantra. Logic does not work on them. They have a dream and they will follow no matter what reality says. Its sad, but I guess some humans work that way.

No supporting evidence?

http://www.thevenusproject.com/images/stories/a-designingthefuturee-book.pdf

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So yeah, I'm right and I'm proving it with facts. Too bad for you, now you'll have to create some kind of stupid excuse, as member of the cult/sect.

You are a member of a cult/sect. No argument, that's a fact, I just proved it. I'm here not to convince you to free yourself from the cult but to warn people not to enter the cult/sect.

Today's education system and society at large is no measure of a relevant education. Our values are distorted, causing aberrant behavior that has negative consequences. With a relevant education, people would understand that a population cannot grow beyond the resources of a finite system such as our planet.


At least you've admitted that your goal is not to have a productive or intellectually honest discussion or argument, but to cease any talk about these ideas at all. For someone so insistent that other people be productive, that seems futile and unproductive to me. Thank you for being honest about your goal though.

Decisions are not made, they are arrived at using information and data derived through the scientific method and in accordance with the goals of sustainability and providing a high quality of life for all people. Central planning is not required because reality is decentralized, so our methods and systems would also have to be decentralized in order to deal with it.

No.

Baseless assertion, ad hominem attack, baseless assertion with no supporting evidence, and another ad hominem attack.

Tautology, unsupported irrelevant statement of ignorance.

Repeated baseless assertion with no supporting evidence, again highlighting your ignorance.

Ad hominem attack, baseless assertion from ignorance combined with ad hominem attack, baseless assertion based on previous baseless assertions that again highlight your ignorance.

Assertion, assertion, baseless assertion combined with ad hominem attack.

Baseless assertion with no supporting evidence despite being hinted at and strangely not provided, again highlighting your ignorance.

Ad hominem attack.

Ignorant statement and finally the stated desire to manipulate others into believing what you want them to without providing any evidence for your claims or providing any argument worthy of discussion or attention.

As education rises the "natural" consequence is population decline? Prove it.

Correlation Does Not Imply Causation.

This also ignores a whole body of social and political theory and thought on the education system and its purpose in society.

There are more "educated" people on the planet that have been "educated" by the school system than in history. Yet the population continues to explode.

As Findeton said,


And you're not caught in the net of your own ridiculous projections and social psuedo-science?

The hope is you'll go away because you're annoying and just keep blindly defending your ideas with anything you can pull out of your ass. Your whole movement is a joke and you only jeep giving it a worse reputation by continuing to post. Shut up and go do something productive.

 

Resource based economy = No prices (all resources are free)
All resources being free = Potential mass waste of precious resources
Potential mass waste of precious resources = Require central planners in order to prevent wasting precious resources.

Now, the big question is:

Where do you find the angels to organize society for us? Would you trust me to make decisions for you?

Probably not.

I've had a venus project proponent debate with me, he eventually admitted that it would require central planning (something I didn't see on the website), and he's stuck on that simple question.

I evidently spoke too prematurely when I stated that people in this forum were reasonable, capable of understanding science, and to challenge outdated beliefs. Some of you are, but the recent comments just prove that many are still caught in the net of their own projections.

So, let me state a few things again, because some of you did not read/did not undertand them.

1. TVP != TZM. So, stop associating the two. Venus Project bla bla bla, therefore TZM... is a non sequitur.

2. Saying "you are a cult" bla bla bla "this is utopia" bla bla bla "you guys are idiots" bla bla bla "sheeple" bla bla bla "but I have no time to explain any claim I make" doesn't prove your point.

It just proves that you can't argue. It proves that you can only shout at people, hoping they will get mad at you.

Thought this would be a thread on using a wider variety of metals as commodity money, no such luck.

Venus Project = Communism with a splash of Star Trek?

You people don't understand the scientific method. You don't have a clue on how it works on social sciences. You also don't understand the actual economic system and you're lied (on every fuckin' Zeitgeist movie) about how it works for the sect to guide you to their misguided conclusions.

You can't use the scientific method if you don't know how to use it. You can't change economy if you don't know how it works.

People entering the Zeitgeist movement or the Venus Project are entering inside a sect/cult and that's a fact.

You people are fools. They fooled you because you didn't read enough books and you didn't think by yourselves. You are so confident just because the group (the cult/sect actually) reinforces your vision.

Yes, the world is fucked up. It always has been.  But it's not fucked up in the way you believe, because you don't understand nor the actual economic system nor the scientific method.

BTW: The Venus Projects advocates a dictatorship. The dictatorship of the people who write the AI that supossedly would substitute every political process, every engineer, every architect and every doctor (yeah I can link you to the actual Venus Project paper that states such NONSENSE).

You people are crazy sect sheeple.

And I'm not trying to convince you of that, you are inside a sect and I don't think you can easily be freed from the sect. I'm just here to warn people who read this thread and haven't entered YOUR CULT/SECT yet.

No one is promised happiness, just an economy that does not perpetuate the artificial mechanisms of competition, greed, fear and ignorance throughout society.

Fresco is not a leader of any sort. He claims constantly that his ideas are subject to change as new technology and ideas emerge.

We are technically capable of producing better cities and utilizing technology that we currently possess to attain such a state.

You continue to be incorrect, please learn more about what you are arguing against.

Premise of global happyiness for everyone:


One charismatic leader:


Monumental, fantastic visions detached from reality (everything is perfectly organised, huge, futuristic and beautiful)

It's certainly easy to take down irrelevant strawmen without discussing anything meaningful. Pointing out a failed sociopolitical experiment that in no way resembles the ideas being discussed, or a work of fiction, does little to point out what it is you actually disagree with specifically.

Neither the Movement nor the Venus Project do not resemble a cult in any meaningful way. We make no fantastic claims nor adhere to any fundamental tenets of belief or spirituality. We propose the use of science to make life better for people. Referring to the people associating with this idea as a cult exposes your ignorance, fear and unwillingness to engage ideas honestly or intellectually.

Thou speaketh heresy!!!