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Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 118. (Read 288375 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
May 28, 2011, 11:32:24 AM
AWESOME.

The Venus project opens your mind:
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

A must see for all free thinkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

please ISA, VP has been thoroughly debunked here....  when are you guys going to figure out that top-down solutions really only work for the top?  its time for you to get on board with the bottom-up solution
ISA
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
May 28, 2011, 10:52:03 AM
AWESOME.

The Venus project opens your mind:
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

A must see for all free thinkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
May 28, 2011, 10:36:05 AM

Quote
We are currently raised to be competitive and dominant

You see, this is how I know the RBE philosophy is complete bunk.  For my part, I am selfish and competitive not due to indoctrination (because I was indoctrinated in quite a bit of crypto-communist "sharing" crap starting at a young age) but due to the fact that I have spent the majority of my life surrounded by morons who have absolutely no clue how anything works and engage in magical thinking as a substitute for logic and reason.  Capitalism just sort of naturally emerges as the obvious solution to the problem of self-replicating mouth-breathing retards who destroy everything they come in contact with.  So, ironically, you can say that RBE is part of the reason that people are competitive and dominant -- because placing any significant amount of resources in the control of people who say things like "What we are talking about is the abundance of access to all of life's necessities" is just such a horrifying alternative.

this paragraph is a cornucopia of WIN!
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
May 28, 2011, 08:55:30 AM
A Resource Based Economy is entirely plausible. The extinction of the entire human species is more plausible. We haven't been on Earth very long. It's our choice.

So is either "Resource Based Economy" or extinction?

Can anyone explain me the difference between "Resource Based Economy" and "cornucopian communism"?

Unless your parents charged you room and board as child, it's pretty much like that. It's people helping each other as best they can, because they can. Not hard to understand.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1002
May 28, 2011, 06:13:25 AM
A Resource Based Economy is entirely plausible. The extinction of the entire human species is more plausible. We haven't been on Earth very long. It's our choice.

So is either "Resource Based Economy" or extinction?

Can anyone explain me the difference between "Resource Based Economy" and "cornucopian communism"?
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
May 28, 2011, 12:03:11 AM
A Resource Based Economy is entirely plausible. The extinction of the entire human species is more plausible. We haven't been on Earth very long. It's our choice.
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
May 27, 2011, 08:00:44 AM
Zeitgeist is pure fail.

I watched the whole film. It simply posits, that there will be no scarcity....I mean lol?
It then postulates that some means of resource allocation mechanism will become available, probably based on "computers". Our current best computer systems can't even predict the weather, the markets or any non-linear, chaotic, feedback system well. Somehow the Zeitgeist gods will fix it though...don't hold your breath though since the producers of the film don't seem to have any grasp of computation.

One of the founders states that human societies should be "emergent", and that we live in an imposed system; our current crappy monetary system. However, it then goes on to *impose* it's own **non emergent** solution...Irony much!?

Now think of this...you live in a wonderfull concentric domed city, like in the movie, called domed-ville. We live in a nearby city called Liberty-ville. There's a shared water table between the two cities, with only enough water to feed one city.....

Well the Zeitgeist people have declared an end to scarcity....this is the new resource based economy afterall. Meanwhile their computer has decided that the resources belong to everybody! Trouble is, people in liberty-ville being a little more pragmatic, have an issue with this...oh and they have lots of guns.



There are a variety of ways to overcome water shortages using technical solutions. Using violence is not a long term solution and in fact is more wasteful. Would you rather live in a society that used their brains or their guns to solve problems?


Light, perhaps you'd care to use your brain, and not cherry pick and quote something out of context. Please answer these basic problems with ZG.

Do *you* agree with the *non agression principle*. No one in Libertyville is going to harm a single hair on your back. They only use force in self defence.

You have not explained *how* there is no scacity, you simply postulate "various technologies". Great we can do that too in Libertyville, there is no scacity! In fact *any* belief system can state it, not just the ZG movement. To differentiate itself ZG must explain *how* it will achieve this.

Who gets what, the basic economic problem. Again, more postulates about some undefined "resource allocator". What happens when a resource belonging to Libertyville or any individual is assigned to someone else? If you agree with the *non agression principle* how do you propose to allocate the resouces of millions of people who don't asctibe to the ZG sytem.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1002
May 10, 2011, 01:31:52 PM
When I saw the last two zeitgeist documentaries two things came to mind:

-Communism
-Cornucopianism??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian

I agree in that many problems we have are (directly or indirectly) caused by our monetary system, but I think a free society cannot depend on plans by "the whole society". If there's no money, there's no free trade and there's no freedom.
The venus project is in conflict with "my ideology" which is a strange mix (still developing) between libertarian and Gesell's ideas. Also influenced by community views such as the youtube channel PeakMoment, free software and free culture.
I invite you to read this book:

http://voluntarykaraism.com/wp-content/uploads/Library/Friedman,%20David%20D/The%20Machinery%20of%20Freedom%20(1973).pdf

That was the book thing about anarchocapitalism that I read.
Maybe you don't become libertarian, but I bet you will become more suspicious about "wise governments" and the "public interest".


Anyone talking about freedom is trying to sell you something. We are all subject to the physical laws of nature.

Don't read it then.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
May 10, 2011, 01:23:43 PM
When I saw the last two zeitgeist documentaries two things came to mind:

-Communism
-Cornucopianism??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian

I agree in that many problems we have are (directly or indirectly) caused by our monetary system, but I think a free society cannot depend on plans by "the whole society". If there's no money, there's no free trade and there's no freedom.
The venus project is in conflict with "my ideology" which is a strange mix (still developing) between libertarian and Gesell's ideas. Also influenced by community views such as the youtube channel PeakMoment, free software and free culture.
I invite you to read this book:

http://voluntarykaraism.com/wp-content/uploads/Library/Friedman,%20David%20D/The%20Machinery%20of%20Freedom%20(1973).pdf

That was the book thing about anarchocapitalism that I read.
Maybe you don't become libertarian, but I bet you will become more suspicious about "wise governments" and the "public interest".


Anyone talking about freedom is trying to sell you something. We are all subject to the physical laws of nature.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1002
May 10, 2011, 05:48:32 AM
When I saw the last two zeitgeist documentaries two things came to mind:

-Communism
-Cornucopianism??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian

I agree in that many problems we have are (directly or indirectly) caused by our monetary system, but I think a free society cannot depend on plans by "the whole society". If there's no money, there's no free trade and there's no freedom.
The venus project is in conflict with "my ideology" which is a strange mix (still developing) between libertarian and Gesell's ideas. Also influenced by community views such as the youtube channel PeakMoment, free software and free culture.
I invite you to read this book:

http://voluntarykaraism.com/wp-content/uploads/Library/Friedman,%20David%20D/The%20Machinery%20of%20Freedom%20(1973).pdf

That was the book thing about anarchocapitalism that I read.
Maybe you don't become libertarian, but I bet you will become more suspicious about "wise governments" and the "public interest".
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
May 10, 2011, 04:00:31 AM

I just heard an interesting discussion between some guys from the Venus Project/Zeitgeist Movement and Stefan Molyneux.  It was a very rational, friendly discussion where they emphasized their common ground while also hashing out some differences.  Very long, but worth listening to.

http://youtu.be/hxjwBZjADiM

The biggest problem Molyneux had with the Venus Project was how economic efficiency could happen without the pricing mechanism, I share his concern but think it might be possibly someday when supercomputing gets powerful enough.  But even then, I doubt it.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
May 09, 2011, 09:30:34 PM
Zeitgeist is pure fail.

I watched the whole film. It simply posits, that there will be no scarcity....I mean lol?
It then postulates that some means of resource allocation mechanism will become available, probably based on "computers". Our current best computer systems can't even predict the weather, the markets or any non-linear, chaotic, feedback system well. Somehow the Zeitgeist gods will fix it though...don't hold your breath though since the producers of the film don't seem to have any grasp of computation.

One of the founders states that human societies should be "emergent", and that we live in an imposed system; our current crappy monetary system. However, it then goes on to *impose* it's own **non emergent** solution...Irony much!?

Now think of this...you live in a wonderfull concentric domed city, like in the movie, called domed-ville. We live in a nearby city called Liberty-ville. There's a shared water table between the two cities, with only enough water to feed one city.....

Well the Zeitgeist people have declared an end to scarcity....this is the new resource based economy afterall. Meanwhile their computer has decided that the resources belong to everybody! Trouble is, people in liberty-ville being a little more pragmatic, have an issue with this...oh and they have lots of guns.



There are a variety of ways to overcome water shortages using technical solutions. Using violence is not a long term solution and in fact is more wasteful. Would you rather live in a society that used their brains or their guns to solve problems?
newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 0
May 09, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
Zeitgeist is pure fail.

I watched the whole film. It simply posits, that there will be no scarcity....I mean lol?
It then postulates that some means of resource allocation mechanism will become available, probably based on "computers". Our current best computer systems can't even predict the weather, the markets or any non-linear, chaotic, feedback system well. Somehow the Zeitgeist gods will fix it though...don't hold your breath though since the producers of the film don't seem to have any grasp of computation.

One of the founders states that human societies should be "emergent", and that we live in an imposed system; our current crappy monetary system. However, it then goes on to *impose* it's own **non emergent** solution...Irony much!?

Now think of this...you live in a wonderfull concentric domed city, like in the movie, called domed-ville. We live in a nearby city called Liberty-ville. There's a shared water table between the two cities, with only enough water to feed one city.....

Well the Zeitgeist people have declared an end to scarcity....this is the new resource based economy afterall. Meanwhile their computer has decided that the resources belong to everybody! Trouble is, people in liberty-ville being a little more pragmatic, have an issue with this...oh and they have lots of guns.

legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
May 08, 2011, 09:02:28 PM
You know, after page 1 (in fact, after the first reply) i was hoping this topic would be dead.
I guess that's because you believe everyone has the simplistic view that everything they don't agree with is
...retarded...
and therefor unworthy of discussion. It must be surprising to learn that people might think differently than you. Welcome to this world of new ideas!
I don't know why you would be excited about Bitcoin, in fact you should hate it if you want a resource based economy. Bitcoin flies in the face of everything you believe because people spontaneously, for the purpose of convenience, created a currency to trade with one another.
I'm glad to come across an expert in everything I personally believe! Can you do that with everyone or just
...retarded individuals...
such as myself?!
full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 101
May 08, 2011, 01:04:58 PM
You know, after page 1 (in fact, after the first reply) i was hoping this topic would be dead.

The Zeitgeist movement is full of retarded ideas and slightly more retarded individuals that don't even understand the purpose of currency.

I don't know why you would be excited about Bitcoin, in fact you should hate it if you want a resource based economy. Bitcoin flies in the face of everything you believe because people spontaneously, for the purpose of convenience, created a currency to trade with one another.

Also, creating a world in your mind's eye based around the idea everyone must warp their mind to fit your ideals is just plain ignorant to reality.

I don't understand the appeal either. The inception of currency was not some imposition of government or other monolithic entity, it arose spontaneously through the evolution of the market. It is what people need and desire, and although it's current form is somewhat perverted, the elimination of money doesn't seem to make any sense. Typical collectivist thinking without regard to economic motivations.
sr. member
Activity: 556
Merit: 250
May 08, 2011, 12:36:13 PM
You know, after page 1 (in fact, after the first reply) i was hoping this topic would be dead.

The Zeitgeist movement is full of retarded ideas and slightly more retarded individuals that don't even understand the purpose of currency.

I don't know why you would be excited about Bitcoin, in fact you should hate it if you want a resource based economy. Bitcoin flies in the face of everything you believe because people spontaneously, for the purpose of convenience, created a currency to trade with one another.

Also, creating a world in your mind's eye based around the idea everyone must warp their mind to fit your ideals is just plain ignorant to reality.
hero member
Activity: 793
Merit: 1026
May 06, 2011, 07:33:33 PM
oh god not this zeitgeist bs again
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
May 04, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
May 04, 2011, 12:03:32 AM
Here is the Zeitgeist Movement's response to the murder of Osama bin Laden, for those who are interested.

You can see the Venus Project's response here: http://youtu.be/-KXgHqp2juQ?hd=1

=================================================

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 
TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden
 
On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in Pakistan.
 
Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display, reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being, reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.
 
It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.
 
The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death simply serves as catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.
 
However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the importance of that problem with respect to priority.
 
The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society. It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September 11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.
 
As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001 become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.
 
Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330 9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget allocations for research on these illnesses is only a fraction of the money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.
 
Such a list could go on and on and with regard to the perversion of priority when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I hope many out there can recognize the severe unbalance we have at hand with respect to our values.
 
So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed, killing four little girls attending Sunday school.
 
In a public address, Dr. King stated:
 
“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America. We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take up the ammunition of love.”
 
- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963
 
~Peter Joseph
wwwthezeitgeistmovement.com
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
April 30, 2011, 12:45:01 AM
Anyone who is interested in promoting these ideas and Bitcoin at the same time should check out my posts at www.witcoin.com.

http://activism.witcoin.com/p/1328/The-Zeitgeist-Movement-and-The-Venus-Project

http://movies.witcoin.com/p/1026/Zeitgeist-Moving-Forward

You certainly seem to be proposing to create a Star Trek type economy using current technology.


Star Trek has very little to do with the economic model being discussed. While I'm sure there are similarities, we do not need to conflate the two ideas. Thanks for your interest, however and I am still grateful for any support from any fans of similar ideas.
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