So, RealBitcoin, which part of the definition of capitalism below relates to voluntarism?
Capitalism = " An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. ", thefreedictionary.com.
You still don't get it. I never actually disagreed with you. I'm merely asking you to prove your point with respect to the definition of "free market" which we are discussing.
Again, the definition deals with "private businesses", and not a baker selling bread to the end consumer. So when the bakery (the business) buys flour from another business, where is the Gov. setting/controlling the price?
Topic: A Resource Based Economy - page 17. (Read 288384 times)
Sorry, but you are just a clueless idiot with no idea about the words that you are using. And no, you are not an intellectual.
Again, capitalism has a very narrow definition, and not the nonsense about voluntarism that you're spouting.
I already rebutted your price-control examples: they are not examples of private business-to private business dealings.
Ok so you cannot comprehend the concept of capitalism and start insulting, very intellectual of you.
Here so you can understand the huge fallacy, I drawed this nice chart, of the cost of 1 piece of bread.
You complain about that businesses can set the price amongst eachother, but you fail the realize the monstruous influence that the government has over the prices, here is an example if 1 piece of bread:
You complain about the liberty of the poor baker to set a profit margin of 0.15$ for himself, yet you fail to see that most profit goes to the government.
Plus every single layer of cost of 1 bread is taxed: insurance, license fee, land tax, import tax, tax cost of 1 employee, minimal wage, VAT tax, and every other bullshit.
Indirect control, but its monstruously big, and you still cherry pick me about the lack of direct control.
See the bakery owner cannot sell his bread below 1.06$, because he would go bankrupt, that is price control.
If there werent VAT tax, he could sell it for 0.85$.
BONUS: Even that tiny 0.15$ profit is taxed with the income tax, social security and other bullshit, so the owners earn even less.
This is not a free market
THE GOVERNMENT TAKES AT LEAST 80% OF THE VALUE OF THE BREAD AND PUTS IT INTO THE POCKETS OF CORRUPT POLITICIANS, HOW IS THIS CAPITALISM?
Read my previous post, right above your where I explained that the Universe and entropy makes is clear that we are evolving towards decentralization.
This is a fact. Some structures might evolve in between as a coincidence, but the long term tendency is decentralization in every shape or form.
So the perpetual power of the current elite is only an illusion, nobody will be absolute powerholder in the future, this can already been seen be earlier absolute monarchies vs. current pseudo democracies, the power structure is less concentrated.
And I believe with Internet we can take a 1000-2000 year evolutionary step in just 10-20 years.
We can abandon some of our animal instincts ,but not all of them, because we are animals weather you like it or not, we cant abandon our nature.
I agree with you on all points except that I think you are too optimistic for the near future, I agree the technology is there but not ourselves. The main problems we face as civilization are resources and land, the rest (food, technology, education, etc are easy to fix and provide). Religion even with its fanatics has no real power compared to 500 years ago and it will continue to lessen and be more tolerate of others. We live in a global world where english is adopted almost everywhere, if you ask me there is no need for other languages right now, we can create a more diverse culture if we all share the same language. However, land distribution and resources will always be a problem, countries and governments won't back down easily.
Huge oil reserves in the North Pole has been discovered recently and many nations are in a new cold war since they all claim a part of that territory (Russia claims more than other nations think it's legal for example). This sort of thinking can be applied to you, where do you live? Can you decentralize your property? your land? We all want to live in a nice part of the city or by the sea, how that works? The "elite" and the rich will always accommodate themselves, don't fool yourself. What's more, you and I will do it in a second, that's what life is, surviving, getting ahead in every aspect. If you think you are not like that, wait until you have children, I've never known anyone with children that didn't expect them to "do" better in life, success is measured like that for 99.9% of the people. This is a cruel world, materialistic in every aspect, without a certain amount of money or resources like shelter, water or food you are dead. And you need much more than that actually to be confortable in this age.
Ok you have apoint, land and physical property will be a bit more delicate issue, but I`m sure people will find a good "humanitarian way" to do it.
But what I`m saying is that most of the assets in the future, we will have it digitally.
You don't need 1000's of cattles, hectares of hectares of land, nor 1000's of workers to survive?
We will have robots, we will have global trading, etc...
All you will have as posessions, is your online PC , digital data (books, movies, art, songs, or other IP) , digital assets via our cryptocurrencies, and accounts to various services on the internet. And you wont need anything else.
You could order food, order clothes, order any physical item via the internet, you can already do it now...
If you really think about it, the concept of ownership will change in the future, but it will be exciting.
You could call this minimalist capitalism, or digital capitalism. Whatever, but it's still capitalism.
Ok guys this thread is just going down in IQ points, so let me summarize what is happening here!
No, let me! It's about Linux and Metro (the newspaper).
No mechanism of capitalism drove the development of Linux, and it's still one of the best OS:s, valued at billions.
Metro is handed out for free, yet there no rush to get one; and people still only take one and leave it behind for others to read.
There, an RBE summarized; and these are just a few examples from our current paradigm where everyone must "earn" a living; imagine if the whole world was an RBE.
Btw, you still haven't answered where the Gov. controls prices between private businesses.
You dont understand capitalism
I see now where you get your foolish ideas, the media really brainwashed people thinking that capitalism is the evil thing. No it's not.
Linux is as capitalist as it can get, because capitalism means only voluntary transactions. Capitalism doesn't mean necessarly a price tag on everything.
There are other marketing models can be used, for instance:
http://linuxmint.com/
That site is full of ads, they dont charge anything for linux, but the site is full of ads. It is profit oriented (capitalist), but it uses a different tehnique, other than the price tag.
Plus, you fail to realize that "profit" doesnt only mean financial profit, there are other profits as well, for example with this conversation you are expecting to profit knowledge, otherwise you would have not talked with me.
So "profit" is not a bad thing, on the contrary, it is the best thing one person can get. You can say that happiness and pleasure is a form of profit too.
_________________________________________
Regarding your price control questions, you are just constantly cherry picking ,I already gave you plenty of examples, but whenever I give you a new one, you always say that that doesn't qualify, which is kind of silly, and proves cherry picking.
Sorry, but you are just a clueless idiot with no idea about the words that you are using. And no, you are not an intellectual.
Again, capitalism has a very narrow definition, and not the nonsense about voluntarism that you're spouting.
I already rebutted your price-control examples: they are not examples of private business-to private business dealings.
Read my previous post, right above your where I explained that the Universe and entropy makes is clear that we are evolving towards decentralization.
This is a fact. Some structures might evolve in between as a coincidence, but the long term tendency is decentralization in every shape or form.
So the perpetual power of the current elite is only an illusion, nobody will be absolute powerholder in the future, this can already been seen be earlier absolute monarchies vs. current pseudo democracies, the power structure is less concentrated.
And I believe with Internet we can take a 1000-2000 year evolutionary step in just 10-20 years.
We can abandon some of our animal instincts ,but not all of them, because we are animals weather you like it or not, we cant abandon our nature.
I agree with you on all points except that I think you are too optimistic for the near future, I agree the technology is there but not ourselves. The main problems we face as civilization are resources and land, the rest (food, technology, education, etc are easy to fix and provide). Religion even with its fanatics has no real power compared to 500 years ago and it will continue to lessen and be more tolerate of others. We live in a global world where english is adopted almost everywhere, if you ask me there is no need for other languages right now, we can create a more diverse culture if we all share the same language. However, land distribution and resources will always be a problem, countries and governments won't back down easily.
Huge oil reserves in the North Pole has been discovered recently and many nations are in a new cold war since they all claim a part of that territory (Russia claims more than other nations think it's legal for example). This sort of thinking can be applied to you, where do you live? Can you decentralize your property? your land? We all want to live in a nice part of the city or by the sea, how that works? The "elite" and the rich will always accommodate themselves, don't fool yourself. What's more, you and I will do it in a second, that's what life is, surviving, getting ahead in every aspect. If you think you are not like that, wait until you have children, I've never known anyone with children that didn't expect them to "do" better in life, success is measured like that for 99.9% of the people. This is a cruel world, materialistic in every aspect, without a certain amount of money or resources like shelter, water or food you are dead. And you need much more than that actually to be confortable in this age.
Ok guys this thread is just going down in IQ points, so let me summarize what is happening here!
No, let me! It's about Linux and Metro (the newspaper).
No mechanism of capitalism drove the development of Linux, and it's still one of the best OS:s, valued at billions.
Metro is handed out for free, yet there no rush to get one; and people still only take one and leave it behind for others to read.
There, an RBE summarized; and these are just a few examples from our current paradigm where everyone must "earn" a living; imagine if the whole world was an RBE.
Btw, you still haven't answered where the Gov. controls prices between private businesses.
You dont understand capitalism
I see now where you get your foolish ideas, the media really brainwashed people thinking that capitalism is the evil thing. No it's not.
Linux is as capitalist as it can get, because capitalism means only voluntary transactions. Capitalism doesn't mean necessarly a price tag on everything.
There are other marketing models can be used, for instance:
http://linuxmint.com/
That site is full of ads, they dont charge anything for linux, but the site is full of ads + sponsorship methods. It is profit oriented (capitalist), but it uses a different tehnique, other than the price tag.
Plus, you fail to realize that "profit" doesnt only mean financial profit, there are other profits as well, for example with this conversation you are expecting to profit knowledge, otherwise you would have not talked with me.
So "profit" is not a bad thing, on the contrary, it is the best thing one person can get. You can say that happiness and pleasure is a form of profit too.
_________________________________________
Regarding your price control questions, you are just constantly cherry picking ,I already gave you plenty of examples, but whenever I give you a new one, you always say that that doesn't qualify, which is kind of silly, and proves cherry picking.
I think we are slowly evolving to what we all deep down know we are supposed to be. But then life gets in the way and our animal instincts take over and rip everything apart just to survive in the now. 1.000 years is nothing in the big scheme of things and look how much we've accomplished. At the same time we are still plagued by the same ignorant desires and whims. 1000 years more or less is nothing in terms of evolution, we are evolving make no mistake, but that takes aeons not some centuries.
Concepts like this are amazing in theory but we are still very far away for make them a reality. Perhaps some time of catastrophe forces us to adopt a resource based economy, but I don't see that happening by human choice any time soon.
Concepts like this are amazing in theory but we are still very far away for make them a reality. Perhaps some time of catastrophe forces us to adopt a resource based economy, but I don't see that happening by human choice any time soon.
Read my previous post, right above your where I explained that the Universe and entropy makes is clear that we are evolving towards decentralization.
This is a fact. Some structures might evolve in between as a coincidence, but the long term tendency is decentralization in every shape or form.
So the perpetual power of the current elite is only an illusion, nobody will be absolute powerholder in the future, this can already been seen by earlier absolute monarchies vs. current pseudo democracies, the power structure is less concentrated.
And I believe with Internet we can take a 1000-2000 year evolutionary step in just 10-20 years.
We can abandon some of our animal instincts ,but not all of them, because we are animals weather you like it or not, we cant abandon our nature.
Ok guys this thread is just going down in IQ points, so let me summarize what is happening here!
No, let me! It's about Linux and Metro (the newspaper).
No mechanism of capitalism drove the development of Linux, and it's still one of the best OS:s, valued at billions.
Metro is handed out for free, yet there no rush to get one; and people still only take one and leave it behind for others to read.
There, an RBE summarized; and these are just a few examples from our current paradigm where everyone must "earn" a living; imagine if the whole world was an RBE.
Btw, you still haven't answered where the Gov. controls prices between private businesses.
I think we are slowly evolving to what we all deep down know we are supposed to be. But then life gets in the way and our animal instincts take over and rip everything apart just to survive in the now. 1.000 years is nothing in the big scheme of things and look how much we've accomplished. At the same time we are still plagued by the same ignorant desires and whims. 1.000 years more or less is nothing in terms of evolution, we are evolving make no mistake, but that takes aeons not centuries.
Concepts like these are amazing in theory but we are still very far away for them to be real. Perhaps some kind of catastrophe forces us to adopt a resource based economy, but I don't see that happening by human choice any time soon.
Concepts like these are amazing in theory but we are still very far away for them to be real. Perhaps some kind of catastrophe forces us to adopt a resource based economy, but I don't see that happening by human choice any time soon.
Quote
So as you know i`m an intellectual
What you refuse to understand is that there is no free market, there never has been and there never can be. It is the free market that is a fairy tale, told to the masses by charlatans and predators to steal and rob them blind while trashing the planet in the process. Many people are beginning to question and produce alternatives to the monetary market system, which has the charlatans and predators very scared. And they are right to be scared because they are ignorant of the possibilities. They do not know that the world would be a better place for them too. That the stresses and pressures they feel will also go away when everyone lives in a sane and rational economy. But since they've never known anything but the false religion of money, that's all they can think about and push on others. One day soon though, we will all have to decide whether to do away with money, or let money do away with us.
I`ve though about this before and you are still wrong.
Decentralization is the path of nature, weather you like it or not, the universe is expanding, and the matter is going away from eachother, so it is a natural phenomena of the universe.
We can see this in humanity too (as we are part of nature as well), we have advanced from baby stage tribalist/monarchic societies to a pseudo democracy with "representatives". It took us long time, but evolution is exponential, with the advent of high technology like the internet.
It will take us some steps, but rest assured, either humanity gets wiped out, or humanity will drop their shackles and wont be fearful of predators anymore.
The free market has never existed before, thats true, or atleast not in large scales, maybe in some remote villages across the history, but not in a sizeable way.
It never existed because there was always a ruler near every weath spring, that like a parasite sucked out the wealth of it ,and tryed to control it.
------------------------
For economic freedom we must need first political freedom. You cannot with for economic freedom when you had mongols pillaging your trading place, nor when it was war, nor when modern "inspectors" come and harass you in your business.
Today there is enough organization to have some sort of effect on government policy of the economy.
It is going the other way unfortunately due to the parasitic welfare state, but when that ends, we will have a big chance of doing what never has been done in human history, to have a free economy and global prosperity.
---------------------
The free market might be a silver opportunity for charlatans and predators, but it will be a gold opportunity for honest businessman.
If there is real supply & demand then trust me scammer business models wont get too far.
Bitcoin is currently the closest you can get to a free market, and while scammers struggle to scam 1-2 bitcoins, honest businesspeople earn 10-20 bitcoins. That is the motivation isnt it?
Quote
So as you know i`m an intellectual
What you refuse to understand is that there is no free market, there never has been and there never can be. It is the free market that is a fairy tale, told to the masses by charlatans and predators to steal and rob them blind while trashing the planet in the process. Many people are beginning to question and produce alternatives to the monetary market system, which has the charlatans and predators very scared. And they are right to be scared because they are ignorant of the possibilities. They do not know that the world would be a better place for them too. That the stresses and pressures they feel will also go away when everyone lives in a sane and rational economy. But since they've never known anything but the false religion of money, that's all they can think about and push on others. One day soon though, we will all have to decide whether to do away with money, or let money do away with us.
Ok guys this thread is just going down in IQ points, so let me summarize what is happening here.
So as you know i`m an intellectual , capitalist, and free market proponent.
I dont like neither corporatism (too much power concentrated amongst private individuals), nor leftism (too much power concentrated amongst corrupt politicians).
So basically what we have now hardcore socialism (for the masses) /corporatism (for the elite) worldwide, but you guys with this venus project, and resource based crap, want to add more steroids to what we have now and turn it into global communism. Your plans are just carrying on the COMINTERN agenda, so comrade Lenin and Marx and the rest of them would be proud of you guys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_International
It is just sheer madness on steroids what you are doing, because the current economic path just took us 1 step from the pitfall, but you guys want to take the extra step and fall into the abyss, instead of reforming the economy into a real competitive and free economy,you rather choose the global enslavement.
You know why the Separation of Church and State happened?
Because the State is a double edged sword, and whichever Church controlled it, used it its own weapon to destroy the competitors, giving born to the inquisition and the bloodbath between Catholics vs Protestants.
It was a necessary agreement to get the State out of religion, to avoid a bloodbath between religions, and religious wars, in the future.
This was called the First Renaissance .
-----------------------------------------------------------
However, the state got out of the religion, but it got into the economy.
Now the state is used again as a weapon of large corporations to wipe out it's competitors, perhaps not kill them in blood, but bleed them economically, and drive them into bankruptcy.
Laws after laws, regulations after regulations, taxes after taxes, bleeding the poor businessmen out and leaving him bankrupt, while the big guys dodge taxes, find loopholes in regulations, and make laws for themselves. Do you think this is normal?
The state needs to get out of the economy, entirely.
This will be the Second Renaissance.
So as you know i`m an intellectual , capitalist, and free market proponent.
I dont like neither corporatism (too much power concentrated amongst private individuals), nor leftism (too much power concentrated amongst corrupt politicians).
So basically what we have now hardcore socialism (for the masses) /corporatism (for the elite) worldwide, but you guys with this venus project, and resource based crap, want to add more steroids to what we have now and turn it into global communism. Your plans are just carrying on the COMINTERN agenda, so comrade Lenin and Marx and the rest of them would be proud of you guys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_International
It is just sheer madness on steroids what you are doing, because the current economic path just took us 1 step from the pitfall, but you guys want to take the extra step and fall into the abyss, instead of reforming the economy into a real competitive and free economy,you rather choose the global enslavement.
You know why the Separation of Church and State happened?
Because the State is a double edged sword, and whichever Church controlled it, used it its own weapon to destroy the competitors, giving born to the inquisition and the bloodbath between Catholics vs Protestants.
It was a necessary agreement to get the State out of religion, to avoid a bloodbath between religions, and religious wars, in the future.
This was called the First Renaissance .
-----------------------------------------------------------
However, the state got out of the religion, but it got into the economy.
Now the state is used again as a weapon of large corporations to wipe out it's competitors, perhaps not kill them in blood, but bleed them economically, and drive them into bankruptcy.
Laws after laws, regulations after regulations, taxes after taxes, bleeding the poor businessmen out and leaving him bankrupt, while the big guys dodge taxes, find loopholes in regulations, and make laws for themselves. Do you think this is normal?
The state needs to get out of the economy, entirely.
This will be the Second Renaissance.
Actually, you are the one being exploited. A capitalist will not employ you and pay you what you're worth. They will pay you less than the value that you provide the employer because that is the only way they can get profits. Once you and other employees understand this fact, then you will experience the conflict inherent in the system.
Thats bullshit, the capitalist pays you exactly what you are worth CURRENTLY. Now that worth might not be your labour's maximal worth as in:
YOUR CURRENT WORTH = YOUR MAXIMUM POTENTIAL - YOUR BAD HABITS
You are paid your current worth. Why don't you earn your maximum potential? Because you are not asking for it or you have other defects like shyness or whatever that makes you earn less.
What happened with worker's unions? Free market doesnt prohibit ,that, but a centralized worker union can be bribed, so a decentralized one could be the way to go.
Entrepreneurs represent power of capital, and you need a counterpower to counteract that, and it will not be the government, it has to be the worker's demanding higher wages.
A market cannot function without a state to protect it from reality. The fact that you are unaware of the many state regulations and restrictions placed upon you is indicative of the state's education infrastructure doing its job.
Yes to empower corrupt politicians to become easily bribed and enact laws in favor of already powerful wealthy people. That is not a good counterbalance.
Your regulations suck, the wiseguys will find ways around it, as always, but the small business owners will get fucked in the ass, and then forced to close their doors and find a minimum wage job.
Your ideology gives birth only to more misery and corporatism, your socialism is what feeds the corporatists.
We will not ever be able to cheat the laws of physics, and so to abandon and ignore them in favor of the happy story of economics is only going to be detrimental to ourselves and our environment in the long run. In an RBE, we recognize this fact and work within reality in order to protect ourselves and the planet from devastation and destruction. The freedom you have been sold is in fact a slavery to a monetary system.
Yes so you cannot cheat the laws of physics, but you somehow want to cheat the laws of biology and psychology of humans, in favor of your communist utopia, which is physically impossible , but let's just dream about it becoming true like 5 year olds.
Fantasies like these are worse than a 5 year old girl dreaming about handsome knight on a white horse, atleast that has some remote chance of happening.
Greetings,
I was very excited to learn about the Bitcoin currency several months ago, and I am very pleased to see it growing. I am part of an organization called the Zeitgeist Movement, who advocates a resource based economy. We are interested in seeing a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values. We understand that the major cause of human suffering today is the current monetary system and the warped values and corrupt behavior inherent in its implementation. We know that we can provide food, water, shelter and a highly technological life style to every one on the planet if we chose to do so. What generally prevents us from doing so is the idea of money, which paralyzes us as a society, in terms of technological advancement, quality of education and healthcare, and a sick culture that encourages us to be competitive and cruel to our fellow human beings.
Knowing and understanding the underlying mechanics of a monetary system is fundamental to not being abused by it. Currently, the vast majority of people are unaware of the destructive and unfair nature of our current fractional reserve banking system, and that makes them vulnerable to all the abuses we see today. Poverty, war, crime and hunger are the result of inequitable economic practices, and will not significantly change until we end or significantly alter our subservience to this and associated institutions. I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
An RBE is basically the realization that there are no arbitrary restrictions on reality. Being bound to the imaginary rules of a monetary game, we limit how much we can accomplish and provide for each other. If we declared all of the earth's resources as common heritage for all the world's people, and used the methods of science to construct and provide all of life's necessities for all people, then there would be considerable reduction in hunger, crime, war and poverty, not to mention unnecessary suffering due to lack of access of medical care or inadequate educational opportunities. If people were given all that were necessary to survive, they could devote themselves to the benefit of all man kind. These would be the values of a resource based economy, not the competitive and acquisitive value based behavior we see today.
I encourage you to learn more about these ideas if they interest you. I hope to support the bitcoin system as long as I am able, and I hope to see it become a dominant and thriving ecosystem in the months and years to come. Thank you for your time and attention.
I was very excited to learn about the Bitcoin currency several months ago, and I am very pleased to see it growing. I am part of an organization called the Zeitgeist Movement, who advocates a resource based economy. We are interested in seeing a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values. We understand that the major cause of human suffering today is the current monetary system and the warped values and corrupt behavior inherent in its implementation. We know that we can provide food, water, shelter and a highly technological life style to every one on the planet if we chose to do so. What generally prevents us from doing so is the idea of money, which paralyzes us as a society, in terms of technological advancement, quality of education and healthcare, and a sick culture that encourages us to be competitive and cruel to our fellow human beings.
Knowing and understanding the underlying mechanics of a monetary system is fundamental to not being abused by it. Currently, the vast majority of people are unaware of the destructive and unfair nature of our current fractional reserve banking system, and that makes them vulnerable to all the abuses we see today. Poverty, war, crime and hunger are the result of inequitable economic practices, and will not significantly change until we end or significantly alter our subservience to this and associated institutions. I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
An RBE is basically the realization that there are no arbitrary restrictions on reality. Being bound to the imaginary rules of a monetary game, we limit how much we can accomplish and provide for each other. If we declared all of the earth's resources as common heritage for all the world's people, and used the methods of science to construct and provide all of life's necessities for all people, then there would be considerable reduction in hunger, crime, war and poverty, not to mention unnecessary suffering due to lack of access of medical care or inadequate educational opportunities. If people were given all that were necessary to survive, they could devote themselves to the benefit of all man kind. These would be the values of a resource based economy, not the competitive and acquisitive value based behavior we see today.
I encourage you to learn more about these ideas if they interest you. I hope to support the bitcoin system as long as I am able, and I hope to see it become a dominant and thriving ecosystem in the months and years to come. Thank you for your time and attention.
I think a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values is impossible. Money is a necessity for us to live.
Every other species lives without money. The vast majority of human history and prehistory, we have lived without money. You are incorrect.
There can be no free market. Humanity cannot become free from reality. The market must create a state to protect itself from reality.
Could you please care to explain this post.I exploit other people for private gain myself, it's called employment. I am not generating any conflict. I'm happy with them, they're happy with me.
To protect themselves from the consequences of that conflict, the market participants must create a state or government to quell those who are exploited. If the market did not do this, then there would be no profitable trading activity, as it would inevitably become intolerable by society as a whole.
You partially acknowledge the problem lies with governments and not the market itself. I am a market participant without the need of a state or government but still enjoy profitable trading atctivity, without the interference of any type of governing.
This is because the state is generally also responsible for education, and the market would not tolerate the widespread knowledge of this fact.
A free market will tolerate the widespread knowledge of anything. A state/government will not.
It's governments that are screwing us over.
It's governments that are creating conflict.
"Humanity cannot become free from reality." What are you trying to point out here?
You say you're very pleased to see Bitcoin growing but your Zeitgeist movement wants to kill the free market just as most people in power.
The Zeitgeist movement wants to get rid of the market system as a whole. This will completely rob me of what little is left of my freedom.
Actually, you are the one being exploited. A capitalist will not employ you and pay you what you're worth. They will pay you less than the value that you provide the employer because that is the only way they can get profits. Once you and other employees understand this fact, then you will experience the conflict inherent in the system.
A market cannot function without a state to protect it from reality. The fact that you are unaware of the many state regulations and restrictions placed upon you is indicative of the state's education infrastructure doing its job.
We will not ever be able to cheat the laws of physics, and so to abandon and ignore them in favor of the happy story of economics is only going to be detrimental to ourselves and our environment in the long run. In an RBE, we recognize this fact and work within reality in order to protect ourselves and the planet from devastation and destruction. The freedom you have been sold is in fact a slavery to a monetary system.
Im pretty sure that if the means of production of the modern society that will come in the next century or so, are private, it will mean the end of anything that isn't super rich and super poor. If machines are creating a surplus of stuff and it doesn't get properly distributed by making the means production a common good, we are fucked. It's as simple as that. There's no way around this. It will literally be like the Elysium movie.
No, they will just wipe out the poor people.
Ok lets say we will make the large scale industries common.
But what if I own a small shop, i dont want all kinds of inspectors and tax collectors harassing me, because currently its worse than the maffia, atleast the maffia doesnt care where you get your money from, the inspectors take your money, but also give you the rules how to earn it next time, its horrible.
Explain your utopia please?
Greetings,
I was very excited to learn about the Bitcoin currency several months ago, and I am very pleased to see it growing. I am part of an organization called the Zeitgeist Movement, who advocates a resource based economy. We are interested in seeing a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values. We understand that the major cause of human suffering today is the current monetary system and the warped values and corrupt behavior inherent in its implementation. We know that we can provide food, water, shelter and a highly technological life style to every one on the planet if we chose to do so. What generally prevents us from doing so is the idea of money, which paralyzes us as a society, in terms of technological advancement, quality of education and healthcare, and a sick culture that encourages us to be competitive and cruel to our fellow human beings.
Knowing and understanding the underlying mechanics of a monetary system is fundamental to not being abused by it. Currently, the vast majority of people are unaware of the destructive and unfair nature of our current fractional reserve banking system, and that makes them vulnerable to all the abuses we see today. Poverty, war, crime and hunger are the result of inequitable economic practices, and will not significantly change until we end or significantly alter our subservience to this and associated institutions. I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
An RBE is basically the realization that there are no arbitrary restrictions on reality. Being bound to the imaginary rules of a monetary game, we limit how much we can accomplish and provide for each other. If we declared all of the earth's resources as common heritage for all the world's people, and used the methods of science to construct and provide all of life's necessities for all people, then there would be considerable reduction in hunger, crime, war and poverty, not to mention unnecessary suffering due to lack of access of medical care or inadequate educational opportunities. If people were given all that were necessary to survive, they could devote themselves to the benefit of all man kind. These would be the values of a resource based economy, not the competitive and acquisitive value based behavior we see today.
I encourage you to learn more about these ideas if they interest you. I hope to support the bitcoin system as long as I am able, and I hope to see it become a dominant and thriving ecosystem in the months and years to come. Thank you for your time and attention.
I was very excited to learn about the Bitcoin currency several months ago, and I am very pleased to see it growing. I am part of an organization called the Zeitgeist Movement, who advocates a resource based economy. We are interested in seeing a radical redesign of society and an associated shift in values. We understand that the major cause of human suffering today is the current monetary system and the warped values and corrupt behavior inherent in its implementation. We know that we can provide food, water, shelter and a highly technological life style to every one on the planet if we chose to do so. What generally prevents us from doing so is the idea of money, which paralyzes us as a society, in terms of technological advancement, quality of education and healthcare, and a sick culture that encourages us to be competitive and cruel to our fellow human beings.
Knowing and understanding the underlying mechanics of a monetary system is fundamental to not being abused by it. Currently, the vast majority of people are unaware of the destructive and unfair nature of our current fractional reserve banking system, and that makes them vulnerable to all the abuses we see today. Poverty, war, crime and hunger are the result of inequitable economic practices, and will not significantly change until we end or significantly alter our subservience to this and associated institutions. I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
An RBE is basically the realization that there are no arbitrary restrictions on reality. Being bound to the imaginary rules of a monetary game, we limit how much we can accomplish and provide for each other. If we declared all of the earth's resources as common heritage for all the world's people, and used the methods of science to construct and provide all of life's necessities for all people, then there would be considerable reduction in hunger, crime, war and poverty, not to mention unnecessary suffering due to lack of access of medical care or inadequate educational opportunities. If people were given all that were necessary to survive, they could devote themselves to the benefit of all man kind. These would be the values of a resource based economy, not the competitive and acquisitive value based behavior we see today.
I encourage you to learn more about these ideas if they interest you. I hope to support the bitcoin system as long as I am able, and I hope to see it become a dominant and thriving ecosystem in the months and years to come. Thank you for your time and attention.
An economy based on resources creates unity among the people. Its resources are treated as a common heritage of the people, there is no boundaries on who should be the ones to utilize or consume them.
I think the resource economy idea is a great one, but let's not be naive, it would require a much different society, what we have right now is simply not good enough. If you put people inside such a society, it would be a catastrophe next day. Unfortunately, we still need a money based system, we'll see in the future. And right now, the best money on the planet is Bitcoin.
Im pretty sure that if the means of production of the modern society that will come in the next century or so, are private, it will mean the end of anything that isn't super rich and super poor. If machines are creating a surplus of stuff and it doesn't get properly distributed by making the means production a common good, we are fucked. It's as simple as that. There's no way around this. It will literally be like the Elysium movie.
I only need you to answer whether US. private businesses set their own prices- and compete among another and, if the answer is no, provide examples to that effect, such as laws.
You are ignoring [ignoring?? So far, my goal was for you to answer a simple question - which you did below] the indirect influence of the government which is as huge as our planet, and want me to focus on the direct influence of the government on prices, which is still present but tiny?
Alright I give you an example:
Slot machines: In some gambling regulations the slot machine owners are forced to set the payout ratio to at least 0.7:1 ,cannot set any lower, so the slot machine owner casino can set it's machine only between the (0.7,1) boundaries. That is direct price control.
Minimal wage: It is the price of labour. The government sets a minimum price of the labour, and cannot be below it.
Rent control: Price of rent. It usually has a maximum price/ square meter of the residence.
And so on.
There is your price control, but these direct controls are still too tiny, compared to the indirect controls which are huge.
Your three examples, however seemingly plausible, are not really applicable, because they apply to the consumer. Remember that we are discussing private businesses setting price among each other, and not business-consumer relations.
Also, your slot-machine example is not really price control at all, because the transaction here is 'money in exchange for playtime with the machine', where the money-part is not controlled.
RealBitcoin,
I only need you to answer whether US. private businesses set their own prices- and compete among another and, if the answer is no, provide examples to that effect, such as laws. I don't want rants about taxes being slavery or an unduly burden, etc - since they are not germane to the question.
Meanwhile, let's enjoy - ahem - what you have written so far:
I only need you to answer whether US. private businesses set their own prices- and compete among another and, if the answer is no, provide examples to that effect, such as laws. I don't want rants about taxes being slavery or an unduly burden, etc - since they are not germane to the question.
Meanwhile, let's enjoy - ahem - what you have written so far:
You are ignoring the indirect influence of the government which is as huge as our planet, and want me to focus on the direct influence of the government on prices, which is still present but tiny?
Alright I give you an example:
Slot machines: In some gambling regulations the slot machine owners are forced to set the payout ratio to at least 0.7:1 ,cannot set any lower, so the slot machine owner casino can set it's machine only between the (0.7,1) boundaries. That is direct price control.
Minimal wage: It is the price of labour. The government sets a minimum price of the labour, and cannot be below it.
Rent control: Price of rent. It usually has a maximum price/ square meter of the residence.
And so on.
There is your price control, but these direct controls are still too tiny, compared to the indirect controls which are huge.
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