A Thousandth Reminder for Beginners and Something Else - page 2.

Darker45

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 19, 2025, 03:58:31 AM

The incident involving the seed phrase that the person voluntarily gave away thinking it would be engraved on metal is so unsophisticated that it doesn't even deserve to be called a scam. The victim simply gave away control of their coins. It would be as if someone asked if they can help you carry your wallet and your belongings and you just gave them everything and walked the opposite direction, hoping everything would be ok. Stop and think before you do anything.

I can only hope these people are simply good-natured, raised properly, that they willingly trust and believe in the inner goodness of every man. I don't want to think they're just eager yet naïve individuals who lack basic comprehension.

Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on January 19, 2025, 07:04:05 AM

If people store their seed of their non custodial wallets in any platform like cloud storage service, or messengers like Facebook messenger, Telegram, Viber, Whatsapp, whatsoever, they are doing terrible practice with their wallet, backup and bitcoin.

I know this is very common here in my country. If somebody wants to save an information, he/she sends it to himself/herself. Many DM their own accounts with important information they want to keep or they don't want to forget that they need every once in a while. Accessibility and convenience are probably the reason for doing so.

Quote from: FatFork on January 19, 2025, 07:36:47 AM

In my experience, many less tech-savvy users don't even know the difference between cloud and local storage. They store their digital documents in the cloud without even knowing it.

Many also don't know that gadgets could also automatically store their files in the cloud. The moment they're connected to a WiFi, their files are automatically backed up somewhere which is accessible online 24/7. Some might think keeping a photo of their seed phrase in a locked album is enough security. If they don't tinker with their settings, what's supposed to be kept offline is kept online 24/7.

OcTradism

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Quote from: Saint-loup on January 19, 2025, 01:34:46 PM

Unfortunately, more people are buying and using cryptos, and before being a good at something you are a beginner and you make mistakes to learn. That's why I think newcomers should never buy big bags the very first year they start using cryptos, because they will get scammed or make mistakes and will lost large amounts of money. It's better for them, to play with small amounts, in order to understand how it works. Anyway this offer could eventually interest people using a strong passphrase along with their mnemonic seed words being very confident in it.

In cryptocurrency, a very first step is choosing a good wallet.
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

What is a good wallet?
Two biggest technical things:
- Non-custodial (or self-custodial)
- Open-source

Before using any wallet, verify your download file before installation.
Backup your wallet, test your backup.
You can even do a small funding to test your wallet and your backup, recovery wallet from backup. If the small funding works well, you can fund that wallet with bigger capital.

Security and Privacy Encylopedia

No requirement to share your private keys, or mnemonic seeds to anyone!
n0nce's Steel Washer Backup jig (customisable)
Stainless steel Bitcoin Recovery Seed Plate
Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers

Saint-loup

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Unfortunately, more people are buying and using cryptos, and before being a good at something you are a beginner and you make mistakes to learn. That's why I think newcomers should never buy big bags the very first year they start using cryptos, because they will get scammed or make mistakes and will lost large amounts of money. It's better for them, to play with small amounts, in order to understand how it works. Anyway this offer could eventually interest people using a strong passphrase along with their mnemonic seed words being very confident in it.

Zoomic

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

I don't know if they're simply innocent newbies or something else is really wrong with them, but very basic reminders never get old; they remain relevant all the time.

The only thing wrong with some of these newbies is that they have very little information about wallets and wallet security. Someone who knows what he is doing will never store his seedphrase online after all the constant warnings about the dangers of saving some private information online. These newbies cause these misfortune for themselves because they are always in a haste and do not have the time to read and listen to updates from other people. Now they will understand why it is very necessary for them to write down their seedphrase on a piece of paper, most wallets would even tell their users to write down the seedphrase, so why would the user do otherwise?

This is indeed a painful experience, now they would learn the bitter way.

Coyster

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Wow, did this victim start using crypto the day before they were scammed, because this is unbelievably stupid, there are some "smart" scams that could be difficult for the victims to spot early, but this, this is as easy as just handing over your money to someone else. Like the OP said, advice like this can never get old, because obviously someone just fell for it.

Majestic-milf

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I don't know what to say to this too because like the op said; the scam wasn't a calculated one. For me, it's like the scammer just asked for the buyer's seed phrase and hoped the seller would fall and because the seller was bold enough to ask kinda made it look like it was genuine and not something to be suspicious over.
Some of these newbies are more in a hurry to be owners of Bitcoin and get carried away by the excitement and forget that they are prime targets of scammers because they know next to nothing about the do's and don'ts of crypto and wallets.

Alone055

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This is why knowledge is important. Those who think so highly of themselves while they don't know much about the things they are doing tend to fall flat on their faces and then learn the lessons the hard way. When you are dealing with finances, you can't act cool and think that you know everything when you haven't even done enough research about the things you are using. You can't keep your finances secure with tools and methods that you know nothing about.

Newbies who get into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies need to learn about the things they are going to face as the first step. What's the hurry? Do you want to buy Bitcoin? Fine, do it, but at least learn how you can keep your assets secure at first so that you don't fall for such stupid things and give away your seed phrase to a random service provider so that they can make it securer for you.

Some things that people fall for are literally laughable.

Mia Chloe

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The fact remains that no matter how much these kind of educational threads or warnings are sounded or created there are still people out there that will still make silly moves like storing keys or their seeds on a cloud and In the end lament about how they lost it to some hack , scam or phishing attempt. The thing is most times the victims of incidents like this don't really understand the concept of privacy and security of their coins rather they are basically just trying trending methods of seed storage without knowing the reason.

The concept of Decentralisation and security of seed on the bitcoin network is one thing that newbies in the bitcoin ecosystem fail to understand and as a result end up losing their coins.

OcTradism

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Quote from: FatFork on January 19, 2025, 07:36:47 AM

In my experience, many less tech-savvy users don't even know the difference between cloud and local storage. They store their digital documents in the cloud without even knowing it.

Don't know that service storing data on clould is not good, but they can learn and when they know it, they will quit that service if they see importance of storing their wallet backups not on cloud storage.

Unacceptable practice is if they know that it's a cloud storage service, and still store their wallet backups on it. It's terrible from their approach initially, and it's not because of any lack of knowledge about a service they are using.

Bitcoin security and resources.
Cryptocurrency security checklist.

Quote

DOs
Store your recovery seed offline. May it be on pieces of paper or a steel sheet, and store them somewhere no one else but you has access to.

DON’Ts
Don’t use a paper wallet. Creating a secure paper wallet can be quite difficult if you don’t have experience with Linux systems.
Don’t save your recovery seed digitally. Not on a .txt file, a word document, on your email, on your mobile phone’s notes app, or anywhere digital.

FatFork

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Quote from: btcltcdigger on January 19, 2025, 06:17:41 AM

Dude! Who stores a seed phrase on a cloud? Seriously, what the actual f***?
From the day one, even in the ledger booklet, it's clearly stated: write down your seed on a piece of paper, and store it safely somewhere.

In my experience, many less tech-savvy users don't even know the difference between cloud and local storage. They store their digital documents in the cloud without even knowing it.

But this here is something else entirely. This is a blatant attempt to steal private and confidential data under the guise of a web store selling offline seed phrase backup solutions.

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on January 19, 2025, 06:28:07 AM

Far too many still think that cloud is safe.
Far too many still think that if you save it in cloud password protected, then it's safe (and then put the password password123).
Far too many still think that saving on the desktop is safe. And then set up their Windows to "save the important files" on OneDrive.
Far too many keep a photo of their seed in their phone, but they also have all their photos automatically sent to Google Photos, or Dropbox, or whatever.

So yes. I expect a lot save it to cloud. And maybe more than half of that without knowing it.

If people store their seed of their non custodial wallets in any platform like cloud storage service, or messengers like Facebook messenger, Telegram, Viber, Whatsapp, whatsoever, they are doing terrible practice with their wallet, backup and bitcoin.

All those platforms can have data leaks from a platform exploitation or from their internal leaks like selling their customer data from a bad staff, or their accounts on those platforms can be hacked, and hackers can access those wallet seeds, private keys.

Some people have another terrible practice by screenshot their wallet seed, and store it somewhere else, digitally and online too.

Warnings are never not helpful, they are all necessary and newbies have to absorb those warnings if they are serious with their bitcoins.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: btcltcdigger on January 19, 2025, 06:17:41 AM

Dude! Who stores a seed phrase on a cloud? Seriously, what the actual f***?

Far too many still think that cloud is safe.
Far too many still think that if you save it in cloud password protected, then it's safe (and then put the password password123).
Far too many still think that saving on the desktop is safe. And then set up their Windows to "save the important files" on OneDrive.
Far too many keep a photo of their seed in their phone, but they also have all their photos automatically sent to Google Photos, or Dropbox, or whatever.

So yes. I expect a lot save it to cloud. And maybe more than half of that without knowing it.

btcltcdigger

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Dude! Who stores a seed phrase on a cloud? Seriously, what the actual f***?
From the day one, even in the ledger booklet, it's clearly stated: write down your seed on a piece of paper, and store it safely somewhere.

memehunter

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

Days ago also, there was a topic on reddit about somebody who was scammed while ordering metal seed backup. The reason is that he shared the seed for engraving. The purpose of having a seed backup in metal is to make sure it's protected from all kind of elements while kept hidden, so that it will last. Everything became pointless the moment it was shared with somebody else.

Good advice.
Either you engraved it personally or do not engraved it at all. Do not think for a second that your local metal worker does not know anything about crypto Grin

.
The same goes for backup phrases written on some old notebook pages thinking that no one will understand. You might accidentally give that notebook/book to write/read and things can quickly go sour.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

Days ago, there was a thread here about a hardware wallet that's compromised. The reason is that the seed was stored in a cloud. The purpose of the hardware wallet, which was to store the seed offline, was defeated right way when the backup was stored online.

I think this has become a classic by now. A typical rookie mistake.

I have seen several threads on another forum over the years where the OP explains that he doesn't know how his cryptocurrencies were stolen if he followed all the security measures, didn't share with anyone the seeds and even that no one knows he has cryptocurrencies. After a lot of scratching and scraping in the end those kind of threads have the same ending: he took a picture of the seeds and uploaded them to iCloud or similar.

hd49728

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Not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

Days ago, there was a thread here about a hardware wallet that's compromised. The reason is that the seed was stored in a cloud. The purpose of the hardware wallet, which was to store the seed offline, was defeated right way when the backup was stored online.

Whatever wallet, if you store your wallet mnemonic seed, private key online, it's risky. Storing it in your cloud account or any third-party platform contains risk too. Their platforms can be compromised, your accounts can be hacked, and you will lose your wallet mnemonic seed or private key. This means, you will lose your bitcoin.

Quote

Days ago also, there was a topic on reddit about somebody who was scammed while ordering metal seed backup. The reason is that he shared the seed for engraving.

That victim did not understand importance of wallet mnemonic seed, private key and its backups. Because "Not your keys, not your coins", if you share your mnemonic seed, these coins are no longer yours.

How to back up a seed phrase?
Bitcoin Q&A: Not your Keys, Not your Coins.

m2017

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Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

Days ago also, there was a topic on reddit about somebody who was scammed while ordering metal seed backup. The reason is that he shared the seed for engraving. The purpose of having a seed backup in metal is to make sure it's protected from all kind of elements while kept hidden, so that it will last. Everything became pointless the moment it was shared with somebody else.

This would be really funny (for NON-newbies), if it weren't sad (for newbies). I remember the old saying that "everything ingenious is simple" and in this method of fraud it happened exactly like that. The worst thing about it is that this not at all sophisticated method of deception finds its "clients".

It seems to me that newbies will never stop falling for such cheap tricks.

Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1i3glsw/beware_bitcoin_seed_phrase_scams/

It's a pity that that topic didn't say exactly how many bitcoin were lost in such a naive way.

Quote from: Darker45 on January 18, 2025, 10:26:59 PM

This isn't a sophisticated scam. It's so obvious that it's both mind-boggling and funny when somebody falls for it. But people fall for it, newbies especially. But considering that they're already into self-custody and metal backups, they're supposed to be more advanced. Or perhaps they're too eager going to the next level even if they aren't ready yet.

That is why I say that the mass user is not ready for bitcoin yet and crypto currencies must move to another stage of usability (without losing security), otherwise newbies will lose savings in a similar naive way or turn to service providers that provide crypto storage services in combination with simplicity and convenience of storage and use, but with a decrease in the level of security (since crypto will be stored by 3rd parties or they will have access to it).

Jating

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And they said that this is fake though, although it's really stupid to fall for the scam.

I check the Etsy account, and if the victims could report this shop to Etsy and shows evidence that this is a scam, the shop could have been taken down already. Or maybe someone clever enough from this community could message the store and see how it goes, just sort of fun and experiment and if indeed a scam, Wink

Pmalek

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The incident involving the seed phrase that the person voluntarily gave away thinking it would be engraved on metal is so unsophisticated that it doesn't even deserve to be called a scam. The victim simply gave away control of their coins. It would be as if someone asked if they can help you carry your wallet and your belongings and you just gave them everything and walked the opposite direction, hoping everything would be ok. Stop and think before you do anything.

Hatchy

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The fact that a newbie knows how to safely secure his seed but still ends up losing it is tiring. One thing that everyone should have in mind is that when you try to over do something, you might end up doing the wrong thing. The metal back up is to engrave your keys on it on your own without telling any third party about it. Why on earth would someone share such private info with someone else in the name of engraving. We should all be careful and more smart to excell in this aspect of financial security, there are so many ways to loss you coins without even knowing.

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