Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 133. (Read 479475 times)

I disagree - 100% of the hardware currently hashing is within +/- 15% of the power consumption per GH of the avalon chips - as such, 100% of the hardware currently hashing needs to be replaced with far more energy efficient hardware, plus an additional 18,000TH before the Avalon chips are no longer profitable. As such, they will definitely provide ROI before they become obsolete. If the price of BTC goes up, then they will remain profitable even longer.

That is $148million in additional hardware purchases of the cheapest $/GH hardware on the market... (Cointerra's chip, and BFL's second gen, both $8/GH) - that is on top of the estimated $15-25mil already spent on ASIC's - without the price of BTC going up, an additional $148mil is not going to be spent on mining hardware.

TLDR - Even Avalon chips are going to be profitable for a long time coming. ActM as a mining company should mine, not resell chips at potentially a loss.

Lolz.

The experience gained from actually setting up a farm, troubleshooting, powering, etc. has some value. I don't believe Ken+staff has actually done this before.

Shouldn't be discounted is all I'm saying - I have no idea what the going price is for bulk Avalon chips

I think you're right.  From my perspective, the Avalon chips already served their purpose. They provided legitimacy for AMC while Ken raised the $1mil. Having them on order and plans in place to put them online showed investors that he's already got stuff happening. But at this point, if we can just flip 'em for a good price and avoid all the extra costs/work that come with bringing them online, I think that could be a totally viable strategy.

This forum is fast approaching clusterfuck status.

If the Avalon chips were to be sold off, they would most definitely be transferred through dividends..

one point (although it might be a perceived one) that icebreaker makes is that it is probably worth it for ActiveMining to scrap the avalon clone assembly and take those chips/materials/clones and sell them sooner than later.  ActiveMining might actually be able to sell them for a profit (or hopefully break even at least).  and then not have the infrastructure costs (racks, power, etc) to have to cover for those machines, nor have to deal with the rising difficulty that reduces any payout these will give.  even if that means that the dividends wont go up, if you are indeed in this long-term then the short-term dividend increase is LITERALLY pennies, and when compared to either reinvesting that capital elsewhere or returning it to shareholders seems to be unwise.  it would seem that would be a strategy/idea to at least discuss and/or put up to shareholder vote.  if we all believe in the long-term viability of ActiveMining then it will come from it's own chips, not some old technology that prob wont have an ROI.

Having read the NDA...

Technically there is no reason why ActM can't let us know the status of the conversion of BTC to USD, which we know to be for the purpose of developing an ASIC, since technically this is completely separate to discussions with eASIC. - what ActM can't do is tell us this is destined for eASIC, however we will all assume this is the case. Because some knowledge is freely available, and considering hands have already been slapped, its fair for ActM not to tell us the funds have been converted because we all know what that actually means in regards to eASIC, and really we don't want to piss anyone off.

I'm just as keen as everyone else to hear more news, but the bottom line is Ken et al are not here to move the share price, they are here to deliver a dividend.

this is getting so exciting I'm going to piss 

Well, it's a good job Ken never made you the PR person.

Using this information it's logical to assume the funds have been converted into US dollars.

I do not understand the need for confirmation knowing that doing so would lead to Bargraphics then asking, "But if they have been converted, why hasn't the deal been signed already?".  And so on.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

EDIT: Interesting to read BarGraphic's posts elsewhere - seems there is little point engaging with you on any thread, least of all an asic one. Added to ignore list.


I won't criticise your post as you can say what you like. Nor are any board members even remotely discontent with ActiveMining. I answered your comments with the facts as they stand. I understand if you don't like them but I can't change them I'm afraid.

You can also do what you like with your shares, I'm not asking anyone to buy or sell them. I am saying that it is your choice what you do, and if you are unhappy then you can sell, and if you're happy then you can hold or buy. It's your investment to do with as you wish.

Adameb: At this point it's not been possible to discuss anything related to the post IPO->eASIC deal. As soon as that changes, PR will post accordingly

Would it be in violation of the NDA to discuss whether the btc collected in the IPO have been converted to fiat yet, and at what rates?  Or has that already been covered?

I'm not sure what you're after. Ken, PR and now board members have all explained that nothing can be discussed re: eASIC due to NDA. Even the NDA itself has been shown. You can't get more official.

In addition to that, there are commercial considerations to consider so with all the asic companies you are not going to hear everything. Business is not conducted in public for very good reason. IPOed companies do need to let their shareholders know what's going on but not at the expense of the business itself. That only benefits short term traders, not the business and not long term shareholders.

Most of all, on all the asic threads it's a small handful of very vocal naysayers and supporters who bang heads together. That's a tiny, tiny minority of investors who are often being vocal for their own ends, to raise or lower the price of the shares immediately or to bring a competitor into disrepute.


And that information will be released when it's appropriate and when it can be.


You have all the hard facts you can get at this point. There are no more to give. If you are not happy with that, sell your shares. If you are, keep them or buy more. Either way, ActiveMining's job is to get their hardware in production, not to release news every week, or indeed every few weeks, just to raise the share price. If it were, they could release all sorts of positive fluffy news designed to do just that.


People can buy and sell shares how they want, but the short term price is only of interest to day traders. This was always a longer term investment for anyone else.

You are probably correct in saying that the price won't go up until the speculation is gone and facts are on the table. However, the facts will be public at the appropriate time. I'm sorry that this means the price may not go up until then but that's the nature of trading. It is not ActiveMining's problem in the short term. They raised their money to achieve a particular long term aim, and it's that long term share price and dividend that matters.

You are also correct perhaps re: Avalon boards yet many people had been asking for just that information so it was given.

EskimoBob, may I suggest that comments like your last one are the type that ask for you to be ignored. Please refrain from that abusive tone. Please also understand that you're dealing with some very experienced people, not some kids from college.

zefyr0s, the NDA is there for a good reason. He cannot break it and he cannot risk the business over it. This has all been considered and discussed.

There will be a shareholder meeting for large shareholders to discuss any issues directly with Ken in the future. For now, we need to let him complete the eASIC deal.

I do take away from this that the board should put a little pressure on Ken for info.

I understand that Ken is afraid to say anything more now and break the NDA. Perhaps he could get in contact with someone at eAsic legal and remind them of the fact that he still needs to get some information out to his investors and his customers. He can't obviously release a timetable of expected developments related to this particular deal, but he definitely could lay out some contingencies, and some routes to take if this deal goes through, and if it doesn't. It's a pretty level playing field currently with respect to current/next gen ASIC tech. The only difference is how the management plans for the future up to and including the eventual severe decline in mining profitability ~2-3 years from now.

LOL - don't pull any punches there fella.

I'm looking forward to the first shareholders meeting, and I'd love to know when it is :-) This is all from me, because forums are septic.

It's so easy to invent all sorts of BS because the PR guy, Ken and the "board" are not releasing any information. Actually, they have not released any short nor high level long term plans with tasks, dates, costs etc - aka a fkn project plan for going from A to B. So what do you expect? 

So, every fuck-witt can come up with their own "news" and blabber on right here.

This is not a discussion thread, this is just another speculations thread.
What is the difference between "mindless speculations" and actual "discussion"?

Official announcement, project plan update, weekly report, monthly financial statements etc are published and people have a on-topic discussion about the released "news". This is what "The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread" should look like.

What's going on here, is "mindless speculation" and non-stop circle jerk. No news, no statements just blabbering about "I think they blaa blaa blaa".

And please, fuck off with comments like "they have more important stuff to do than report xyz". If you think like that, you have obviously never ever managed a large (or any) project in your life.

1) Have you seen any list of actual milestones (with dates!) set by the management?
2) Have you seen any cost estimates for achieving those milestones?
3) Have you seen any updates to those milestones?
4) Have you seen any "plan B" or even "C", if "A" fails?   
5) How much cash is spent as of today? Is it more or less than expected?

If the board is not demanding, from management, a clear high level (and detailed for short term) plan, they are incompetent and should return to jerking off in this forum.

Cheers!

That at least would have novelty value which would probably make it a better long term investment than IceDrill.

Maybe it's a drill made out of ice?

No not atall you can see right through him which is why I'm off to the IceDrill thread to see how he's getting on with all his money in IceDrill.

IceDrill - because mining Bitcoin involves drilling into ICE - maybe.