Topic: Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING - page 21. (Read 44381 times)

Thanks.

Be delighted to. PM me the wallet address and I'll throw something appropriate there. Not sure about being able to help with buying medical supplies in BTC thought!

It's alas my 'job'.

I don't mind comments like johnnybravo0311's because people invest for a whole host of reasons. Of course what he says is correct in the simplistic view that if difficulty continues to trend upwards higher than a certain rate then it would indeed be better to do the 'buy BTC now' than even buying hardware!

But of course it is a big IF, and if he's got a fine crystal ball then I assume he also doesn't buy international stocks or shares he just buys fiat currency

It also negates the view that with mining contracts you get a constant 'dividend' stream which you can invest how you like, potentially taking advantage of changes in the market. If you buy BTC and hold then you've 100% locked your final gains entirely against the price of BTC at the point you realise verses the point you bought, rather than having additional factors that can affect the overall returns. The same as 'pension funds' and 'property is my pension fund' views. Each are fine, just make sure if you do the latter that when you want to realise it that the housing market hasn't collapsed.

Again the analogy with buying international currency verses buying a share in a company isn't that different, after all who would have bet in the late 1990s that Apple would be the largest company in the world. You could of course have bought Guatemalan Dollars at the time as well which given where Apple was market share wise against Microsoft may have seemed the better choice!

The comparison we believe with kit is indeed valid. Generally 8-12 weeks means around 50% of the earnings of a certain hash rate will have been collected, so if you are around even double the price of kit alone, then by the time you factor in pool luck issues (which we remove with our guarantee), power (which is fully inclusive - the power alone at $0.10/kWh for a Neptune is nearly $1500), and downtime (we provide a SLG that means even if we did have a bit outage it doesn't affect your earnings) then we believe it's great value. So will you get that kit you order today in 1 week, 2 weeks or 12 weeks? If you are sure that's cool, but given we buy kit by the 100TH load we aren't that sure that all the claims made about availability are actually true.....

But if johnny doesn't we don't mind that - it's just a perspective and if he thinks he can mine better himself then we're not going to tell him he's wrong, and clearly even if he's not mining he can make his view known and we can give ours and the end customer can make their mind up.

We purposely don't make any claims about what may or may not happen (check out our website, we even say on our front page that "Please remember that past performance is not an indication of future growth of the global hashing rate which directly affects the amount of rewards that your hashing contract may make.".

Not only is it illegal in the UK for us to do that under the FCA (the financial regulator), we are in the market of providing a service which people can make their own choice about if it makes sense for them. We've no interest in making massive claims about returns or anything else, we just put the contracts up, give a decent set of information for people to make their own mind up, and leave them to it. No whizz bang schemes, no MLMs, no pumping of the forums, just here it is and see what you think.

Given the contracts we've sold so far it seems many people do like our proposition, but also given that everyone that visits our site doesn't buy something, others think it's not for them. That's cool. Our existing customers seem to like it with many now over the 10THs level, and almost all have added additional contracts. At the same time we continue to contribute a reasonable chunk of doing the important bit of mining which is verifying the transactions.

Megamine is just one of the businesses we have active in the bitcoin arena so it's not a do all or die, and for us ensuring that we are incredibly close to the mining is very important for some of our other investments which will ultimately rely on the integrity of that, and of course everything we haven't sold we mine for ourselves so it's not all bad news for us.

MD = Managing Director - means the buck stops at me for the day to day as well as the 'strategy'. It's a UK term.

J
www.megamine.com

Added to the list.

Thanks for the offer for an account but I'll pass.  I do medical charity work every 2 years and have a separate BTC wallet just for that if you want to donate a few bucks for that (this Thanksgiving I will be working with some friends from the VA down in Gaudalajara, Mexico in a community clinic for 6 days).  I guess I could make a charity account haha.  Haven't found a place to buy medical supplies with BTC for those reading ... some of you could cater to those doomsday preppers 

I can tell from your posts that you spend quite a bit of time studying the mining trends.  As johnnybravo0311 noted it may not be the best return compared to buying hardware, but that is up to the end user to decide.  KNC, Bitmain and AM aren't exactly promising you'll make money either - it's up to the end user to decide what is right for them.

I noticed you signed the announcement "Justin Fielder, CEO & MD".  Is that MD as in physician or some other abbreviation in the UK?

And your customers don't have a prayer of getting a positive return.  Assume I have $3100.  I can either purchase BTC directly or your 12 month 2TH/s contract.  BTC currently is $500, so nice easy math says I can get 6.2BTC with my cash.  Now let's take a look at that contract... at 10% difficulty increases, I'm negative at the end of my 12 months (down about 0.83BTC).  At 20% difficulty increases, I'm negative (down about 3.37BTC).  Ok, let's assume 5% increases... hooray, I'm actually in the black (up about 2.3BTC).

The only way the customer wins is if the network difficulty increases are 8.3% or lower each jump over the next 12 months.  Since the very next increase is tracking to be around 15%, it's a no-win situation for the customer.

I understand you are in business to make money, and I certainly do not begrudge you for it.  However, also understand that you're going to get called on the BS you're spouting about your prices beating out next-generation hardware (using KnC's overpriced Neptune as the example) and making it look like $3100 is a reasonable charge for a year-long 2TH/s contract.

It would be nice for you to add Megamine.com if you'd be so kind.

Our announcement thread here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-megaminecom-a-new-100-hydro-powered-uk-based-bitcoin-mining-service-636096

If you'd like a small account so you can check us out I'd be delighted to arrange that, especially given the work you seem to put into this forum.

We are new but real, you can find out who runs us (http://www.megamine.com/aboutus.php), we are backed by a well respected private equity company (Black Green Capital), we are fully approved and undertake all necessary ID checks for everyone's peace of mind (http://www.megamine.com/idrequirements.php), accept both CC (and hence you get Credit Card protection) and bitcoin payments, are UK head quartered, operate in Sweden, and quite happy to show off our kit buzzing away and answer any questions.

With our recent price change and given the size and the advantage of running on 100% hydro power, we've just dropped under the /GHs cost of the next generation of 20nm THs miners with the small advantage of you get instant activation with us rather than having to wait for the next batch of kit.

KNC Neptune Batch 3 : £5,995:3THs turn up 'Q3 2014'
Megamine Mega Miner 2TH x 2 : $6,200:4THs turn up the second you order it.

J
www.megamine.com

IMO cloud hashing is a lot like buying a miner on ebay.  overpriced and will never ROI.  almost always better to buy bitcoin outright.

any idea why they doubled the price for the Zen cloud hashlets ?

Great post, thanks for the time and effort that you put into it doc.

There are a lot of theories about Zen cloud hashlets and if or what they are mining.
The theory that makes the most sense is that they are leasing or renting out the
hash, which brings in more than a normal multipool. That is my guess at what is
going on. And I have bought some hashlets, see my sig for discounts. Right now it
seems like $15.99/mh with the guaranteed best pool is the way to go.

Gavin Anderson, one of the lead BTC developers, recently warned about some cloud mining companies:
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112329/gavin-andresens-fractional-reserve-mining-cloud-miners-respond

It was not my intent when making this thread to discuss the various cloud mining sites - there's tons of blogs for that.  I wanted to point out inherent risks specific only to cloud mining when compared to mining with physical hardware.  I happened to list Cex, Lunamina and PB since they were sig spamming and lunamine just ran off with 2000BTC

Genesis mining in particular seemed to have a lot of shill postings in July.  I saw one user running around with 40 posts and 34 of them were promoting genesis-mining and yet he/she never stated they were working for the company.  They may not have been paid by genesis-mining but the posts just seemed wrong, especially how the poster chimmed in topics where the OP wanted to know about hardware specifically.

Until these companies start releasing basic information like their incorporation state and their officers I wouldn't trust any of them.

I notice that  you have mention about many sites for cloud mining but you haven't mention about Genesis-mining. I think Genesis-mining is providing the best offer of cloud mining. Here is the official thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=602022.new#new

It is possible that at some stage 1GH/s would not be able to hash enough BTC to cover the costs of mining. We are not sure what hardware will be available on the market say in 6 months or a year and if it will be practical for us to buy it. With the difficulty rising as mad only the rise of the price of bitcoin can balance the costs vs profit. As you know the old miners like Avalons or Jalpenos are usless today. So if we reach the point when we would not be able to reduce the costs further (or because of sudden bitcoin price crash) we will have no other option but to redempt the shares and distribute the silver by posting the physical coins and/or settling in BTC to the users that would possess less than 1TH/s. We cannot predict when this would happen. Of course as any other undertaking of this kind we will be reinvesting money into newer hardware reducing the costs and building up our hashing buffer.

On the other hand however perhaps at some stage the price of silver will be rising on its own or along with the price of bitcoin, who knows. It will make our GH/s even more attractive. We have much better prices than on CEX, much lower maintenance costs and our GH/s is silver protected. I see is no reason why the market price would remain so low for long apart from the fact that very few people know about kryptologika so the turnover is so low. We just leave them as they are for the market to decide.

Does it make sense?

What's the value in backing a virtual commodity that you create on your own with another commodity? I guess I don't understand the principal of how having silver ensures anything when the virtual commodity is always decreasing in value over time because of difficulty?  So 1gh today is worth whatever you say it is (1/10 oz or whatever) and in six months 1gh would be worth 1/20th, etc.  Unless customers could withdrawl in silver, what's the value?  

Not trying to attack, just trying to understand.

I have no affiliation with NiceHash (or WestHash); however, I can confirm they actually DO mine.  I know this because I ended up with about 70TH/s on my p2pool node from them.  No idea how they even found my node since I don't promote it (but I do leave port 9332 forwarded so I can look at my stats from the road), but suddenly I had a new miner on my node with a pretty significant hash rate.  When I looked at the traffic, I saw the IP address and it was owned by NiceHash.

Anyway, that's just my 2 bits on NiceHash.  I've checked out their site, and it's pretty interesting.  Basically if you own hardware, you configure it to point to their pool.  You also put out orders for people to use your mining power.  If somebody buys hash rate, and NiceHash decides to use your hardware to satisfy that order, suddenly your miners are running on their pool.  If nobody is using your hash rate, the pool appears "dead" to your miners, so they go to their fallback.

Honestly, it's about the most interesting "cloud" mining solution I've seen yet.  It's distributed because it relies on your hardware, and it actually mines on real pools.  I haven't checked out their pricing or fees, so I can't comment on it.

DrG, you should add NiceHash

NiceHash.com

• No contracts, bidding system
• Simple way to create orders instantly
• Ability to cancel any order at any time without loosing any funds
• Mine different algorithm coins (SHA256, Scrypt, Scrypt-N, X11, etc.) with massive hash rates

NiceHash.com

External escrow is basically not possible if it was to involve the distribution. Technically probably I can escrow the coins, pay for it and once the shares will be redempted I will need the silver to be sent back to me to handle it. This is an alternative to the merrionvaults.ie here locally and it has its advantages. But how can I explain I used a private person as an escrow if I had an option to keep them safe in the vault? This issue can be raised by any shareholder at any time and to be honest I do not have a good answer to that. Apart from an argument that an escrow with a respected bitcointalk member would gain more attention on the forum.

I think I would rather stick to the original plan and keep it in the merrionvaults.ie. Escrow of BTC is understandable and easy in an anonymous world. Escow of silver is not that handy and is not justified when the customers are dealing with identifable person or a company.

The more I think of the escrow of physical silver the more complicated it seems to be. There is no problem when you escrow bitcoin as you release them with a few clicks. When it comes to redemption of silver you need to take into account the costs of labor and distribution to the users. It is therefore subject to further discussion about the technical aspect of it to be as cost effective as possible. I will try to sort it as soon as possible.

Thanks for the advice, power for mining is costlier than profit earned unless you have nice configurations.

Nice thread, well done.

Look at the reviews on those sites.  They're like 5 words reviews like "nice interface.  I like site".  Those sites are meaningless.

More appropriate reviews would be from other miners that have positive or negative experiences who post it here on Bitcointalk.