Topic: Advice for new users regarding CLOUD MINING - page 23. (Read 44307 times)

There is profit in mining, unfortunately right now all hardware has to be bought from ASIC manufacturers.  They set the price and timeline as to when they deliver your hardware.  If it costs them $100 to make a miner they can sell it to you for $500.  If you buy 1 miner, they can afford to now buy 5 miners and compete against you at 5 times the rate.  Sad, but this is what has happened - see Dogie's ASIC manufacturer Guide https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-dogies-comprehensive-manufacturer-trustworthiness-guide-1st-feb-2016-456691 and notice all of them get an F for ethics even though they may sell very good hardware at a good price (like Bitmain).

Is Mining even profitable anymore? The difficulty is rising so fast, that in a year people with 1.6 TH/s will probably only mine like 2-5 cents/day ...

It is true that I do have a pay per post signature for PrimeDice and I am being compensated for posts, but if you read my posts you will see I am not spam posting like many of the other users on the forums.  I have also long since passed my 400 post max for the month just like phillipma1957 so everything I've posted in this thread was more or less to let new users become aware of the possible pitfalls of cloud mining.  I will amend my opening statement to include the PD signature disclosure.  Thank you for pointing out that I missed that.

I am not a paid "Shill", however, as I am not hiding the fact that I am being paid by PrimeDice.  Over 1/4 of the senior/hero members have the sig and it's more or less common knowledge that it is a paid sig... just like all the other paid sigs.  Shills are people who come here and promote a website or business without disclosing the fact that they are part of or are being compensated by the business.  Typically when you accuse them of this behavior they will ignore your accusation or deny it.

Thanks for the advice, mate. Helped me alot.

Yeah I also run into this.

 I do point out that I posted 300 posts a month pre retirement and pre signature.

It is difficult to separate the financial benefit of postings when you get paid for making them.

To be fair  this is my 520+ of the month and I will not get money for this post.

 If the signature campaigns end I will still post over 300 posts a month.

 Thanks for the informative post on cloudmining.  I have and will continue to avoid it.
One thing I would like to mention is that you have an ad and a link in your sig (as do I) for which you are being compensated.  Like it or not, we might be no better than the "shill" posters you have identified.

Nice post.  I have a signature for prime dice.  I get paid up to 400 posts in 1 month.  this is my 520th post for the month.

you can verify my post count here.   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64507;sa=showPosts

Okay all cloud mining listed above  with the exception of GAW Miners is pretty much nuts to do.  you have 0 protection the entire time they have your hard earned BTC.  None of them take CC payment.  I advise you to use none of them.  Now That has been spoken on to the Gaw Miners.

Some days I think they are brillant other days I think they are complete total --- (pick your favorite insult).

 They offer one thing no one else offers on the list above they offer CC payments  which gives you 60 days protection

Should you buy from them ?  I don't know some days I think you should and some days I think you should not.  Did I buy from them yes I did and quite a lot.  I have a thread on my experience with them for the last 30 days or so. using cloud or zen .

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=698679.0;all

  I moderated this myself and as of yet have not had to alter anyone's posts.  So most likely  many complaints against them are shill accounts.



They will sell you a piece of the cloud and you can mine in under a few hours. if you use a CC you have CC protection if they crash and burn.

Will you make money with them …..  I have no idea .

 but  if you get an s-3 from them today it will be mining on the zen cloud in about 2 hours.  it will be CC protected for 60 days or so.


Oh  I have :

6 s-3's in house
11 gridseed blades in house
1 AsicMiner Tube ordered on this site due  next week.

I have 58MH on zencloud/gawminers
I have 950Gh on zencloud/gawminers

I have a dragon 1th hosted in china
I have a disaster from black arrow doing nothing  one day maybe I will see something from it.

Thanks for the advice, bro. I bought the real hardware a few weeks ago, I'm pretty happy though. Nothing wrong so far.

I have tried 6 different signature campaigns and 5 of the have failed to pay me.  PrimeDice is the only one that has kept it's word and Stunna is a good representative for the Bitcoin community - in stark contrast to lunamine who everybody plastered their sig and they ran off without paying anybody.  PrimeDice is honest in that it is known as a gambling site and you should only play with money you'll willing to lose.  All the cloud mining companies are gambles but they present themselves as "investments" 

I believe that what could mining has been doing.... they just need to fake mining and pay you back partial...

Good points here.

Since scrypt mining has negative ROI. They might as well take your money and pay you back a smaller portion of it every month.

I posted this in the ZenMiner thread, but it seems important to note the following issues with GAW/ZenMiner here as well:

Good points in this thread. I looked into Lunamine as it appeared genuine, but I would never buy a fixed term cloud contract as it is exactly the same as me giving you $1000 and you saying you'll give me back $50 each month, but i cant access the $1,000 ever. Its a losing proposition all day long. I have traded CEX GHS, but not sit and hold as that will not reward as the underlying asset inversely tracks difficulty.

By the way everyone (almost) in this thread has a gambling signature deal that pays out on the number of posts made (at least I think that is how it works). Nothing wrong I guess with that just that it shows everyone is after your BTC or $ be it gambling, cloud contracts real or ponzi etc.

Due diligence will point you in the right direction these sort of threads useful part of that process

The problem with cloud mining is that it requires a large capital investment up front by the provider if it is to be legit.  The service provider must purchase the hardware, set it up, maintain it, etc.  Assuming I want to setup a 1PH/s farm, I'm pretty sure I've seen the $1,000,000 number floated as necessary capital to do so.  Even if that number is only $800,000 it's still a sizable chunk of cash.

Now I've got to recoup my investment.  As we all know, the value of the hardware depreciates very quickly.  Assuming meager 10% difficulty jumps, you're looking at losing 10% of your revenue stream every 2016 blocks.  This hardware costs money to run - power, cooling, location, maintenance - which further reduces my revenue.  Basically, your cloud mining provider faces all the same things every other miner does.

Since I'm in business to make a profit, I must therefore charge consumers accordingly.  This is where I need to try and forecast the future and make decisions based on how much risk I'm willing to accept.  Here is where you, as the cloud mining consumer, are also making your decisions.  It's a gamble.  Do you think you can forecast better than I can?  That's the game we're playing.  If you win, you make a profit on your cloud mining contract.  If I win, I make the money on that contract.  The difference is that I'm the one in control.  I'm setting prices.  I've got the edge because I can adjust things according to how the market is doing.  You, on the other hand, are locked into the decision you made.

Up to this point, I'm only speaking of legitimate providers.  Companies who really do own hardware and are actually mining Bitcoin with it.  As a consumer, I've already got virtually everything going against me with these guys.  Now you introduce the scammers.  The easiest scam is the Ponzi.  Maybe I invest a bit of capital up front to purchase some Bitcoin and setup a website.  I then sell my "cloud mining" service to you.  You pay me Bitcoin, which I then turn around and pay back over time.  I tell you to refer your friends and you'll get a cut of the profits.  You're interested because it means more coin in your pocket.  As long as I can continue to get people to join the game, I can keep the game going.  Those of us on the top make a killing.  I've already recouped my initial investment (if I even made one to begin with).  Eventually, no more people will join and things start to go bad.  All I have to do is close up shop.  I can claim I was hacked, robbed, beaten, whatever.  It doesn't matter.  I'm out with a ton of coin and you're stuck with nothing.

In both cases the cards are not stacked in the consumer's favor.  Legitimate cloud mining providers are in it to make a profit for themselves - not the consumer.  Scammers - well, we know they're only in it for themselves.  Do yourself a favor and avoid cloud mining altogether.

one to add to the list:

Megamine.com

• UK based, backed by established industry names
• Guaranteed pool luck
• thread at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-megaminecom-a-new-100-hydro-powered-uk-based-bitcoin-mining-service-636096

,

I have been dealing with GAW for a while and always got a response. IMO they aren't unresponsive, just check the forums every single complaint gets answered by their employee Amber.
I've noticed guys at GAW are serious about nettiquette and angry people tend to go mental. Some people went too far and got banned on hashtalk, so they made new accounts here and started complaining.

I'm not saying all negative feedback is fake, but at least half of it is.

The thing is, and I need to state, that I am one of the Lunamine signature members, who got suckered...These companies offer such legit looking businesses.

Follow the Lunamine thread, and you would find, 90% of the people having issues, got it sorted out quickly. {So obviously, these people are getting better at the long con now}

They enter the mining field, with loads of skills and offer a great service. {Based on this, many people would be successful, if they had a sound business plan} But then they get greedy, and they decide to run away, with peoples money. 

I guess the temtation is too big, and also the amount of money involved. 

I'll add Gigascrypt to the list but I honestly don't have time to investigate companies.  It looks like Gigascrypt hasn't posted to Twitter in a month and nobody is really talking about them in the services section.  I leave that to other forum members who are into that field.

Back when BFL was trying to become the first ASIC manufacturer a lot of people actually flew out to BFL in Kansas to tour their facility before plopping down $2k, $5k and in some cases $100K of hardware.  Now it seems people are happy to throw it away without doing any due diligence whatsoever and then cry afterwards.

There were several people, myself included, who warned others to not buy cloud mining unless they knew the company owner firsthand or knew where the company was physically located.  A lot of people on these forums had lunamine signatures just last week - and now the company is gone.  I'm not saying that every cloud company is going to run away and scam everybody, but people should at least research their investments before buying into them. This isn't like throwing money at AAPL or MSFT stock.

PBMining may be legitmate.  Unfortunately from what I have seen they haven't bothered to rebuke the notion that they are ponzi.  If anybody from PBMining would like to prove otherwise please post here.

As noted above GAWMiner/Zenminer are still communicating with their customers.  Obviously they're not trying to run away at this point in time and they just very well have growing pains like many businesses do when they're understaffed.

Well I don't like to label people without having some proof but if you look at the user's posting history everything is clearly laid out. It's not wrong for somebody from a mining company, an exchange, a vendor who accepts BTC, or a cloud mining operation to come on the boards and promote their product - what good business wouldn't do that.  I find it shady when the company hires people who post as if they regular users without disclosing their association.  Yes, regular users who happen to talk about a single company 50 or 75% of the time - nothing fishy about that 

PB mining is a bit odd, but still you pay 100% more then if you buy hardware, so it is possible to make a profit for PB mining. Still I understand your ponzi accusation, my first thought.

I wanna buy an additional 200 ghash, but am scared that they will vanish in a couple of months when they have a lot of orders .

Another cloud mining service is Gigascrypt.com, haven't read the terms yet, but looks promising!