Topic: After 1 year of diversified bitcoin dice house bank investment we lost 32.46% - page 8. (Read 17814 times)

Thanks Bitcoin Betting Guide. I have search manually all dice and casinò games with a investor program and only now i have see this post.

Can you add diggit.io to your calculations please?

^ I did not see that one coming. Doug has forsaken us.

Yes and add just-dice too : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884724.new#new

We list that on the revews page

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/bitcoin-dice-reviews/

Peerbet is indeed the longest operating site included

Good work.
Just a little thing: could be possible to add the longevity of each casino?

Thanks for maintaining this, and congrats for reaching +ROI!

Any thoughts on adding inception date to each of the listed gambling sites? We take pride in our longevity over at Peerbet.

To calculate bank turnover we use

house bank
amount wagered when we started tracking it
amount wagered the last time we updated it  

For example if
the house bank is ฿100
the amount wagered 100 days ago was ฿1000
the amount wagered now is ฿3500
Then 100 is being wagered every 4 days so bank turnover is 4 days.

The important part is that means the investors should make 0.9% every 4 days.

I am wondering what amounts you use to calculate "Bank turnover" (and therefor "Expected annual return".) I mean BitDice's BR has 2 big investors on 10x kelly. Their virtual bankroll is 4340. The 1 BTC investor's share is 1/4340 not 1/960. So I am not sure if you use 960 or 4340. It looks like 960 though, which would give x4.5 higher wrong results than the real expected results. With DiceNow it's the same.

More than 2 months in and we have hit our biggest milestone so far. We are in profit! Even after 1 of the 8 operators stole our entire ฿1 investment. Read all about it

We also have the first operator whos actual return is better than their expected return based on house edge and amount wagered. That is Peerbet who have fixed their amount wagered figure allowing us to calculate their bank turnover and expected annual return. They also had a profit bump of ฿0.01 for the week

There was also a nice ฿0.03 profit bump on PRD dice which has taken them back above Win88. They also got almost ฿1000 more invested in the bank

~฿3000 bet on Bitdice with almost no profit change...

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

If you can get 50% a year in expected revenue, it's a good investment since there is less than 25% chance that they will disappear in a year

All stats are updated again and we have a new leader! Win88 is now king of the hill with 38.54% returned in less than 2 months which annualizes to 766.23%!

Big action on BitDice this week with more than ฿3500 bet which saw site profit grow despite my epic ฿6.5 winning session To be extra rude I lowered their score in the reviews after that session as I realized a couple of little thing that were not optimal with the betting experience.

Peerbet have recognised there is a problem with their amount wagered display and are working on a fix. In the meantime we can not report on their bank turnover or expected annual return, we are working on getting the table to display a "?" for those cells.

We should be back in profit over all by next week! Here is where the table lives

http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

Notsureiftrolling that is exactly what this addresses, these are all real house bank investments that I am reporting, not just figures reported by the sites or paper trading.


A few people are mentioning bikini dice, the truth is when I started this comparison I had never heard of it, it looks fine and reports all the stats we need so I will keep an eye on it

I like the idea but as an investor you have more risks on your capital but you know you have a 1% edge if the operator is not cheating when the poker player can always tilt and be an underdog or be mistaken about his edge.

It's not poker, but it can work on similar basis. You can consider players and investors playing against each other. Investors engage their fund long-term and, in exchange, they got 1% edge, and the operator is set in between (taking the rake).

So instead model: "players - investors+operator" you've got: "players - operator - investors". Doesn't make much difference from players' or investors' point of view.

I noticed you perceive investors in a traditional meaning (as shareholders), which isn't appropriate, they are players betting long term (on the house).
In terms of PRCDice, there are no shareholders, if there were, they'd be probably all in favour of the 'rake' system. Well, you can say that Dean is the only shareholder (afaik).

Anyway, I've seen on PRC chat that you're considering both options for your site and want to put it under voting. Great idea. Good luck with your site.

The site or operator is not confident enough to bet on his own site, to either fund the bankroll, or to share in both profits and losses. I don't know if that is an argument or not, but we're certainly not talking of toys here. Fiat banks lend to business on the strength of their business plans. Take care of your toys so you don't break them. Or play with them knowing you will break them (such as for target practice? My kid has a new Iron Man toy, likes to fling it across the room thinking it will survive.)

Most businesses are prepared to operate at a loss a minimum of 6 months, some even take 1 year or more. I'm talking about traditional brick and mortar businesses, not fly-by-night crypto businesses. Break even point or ROI for some fast moving consumer goods businesses that sell actual physical products in malls and department stores can take up to 2 to 3 years.

That's the mindset you should have when putting up a business. Admittedly, I see bitcoin based business such as game sites could probably make their capital investment and profits a lot more quickly than 2 to 3 years.

For any investor, I will only take 10% of profits. Small investors, then 10% of small investment profit. Big investor, then 10% of big investment profit.

No casino is going to give 1% or even 0.5% of turn over or wagered to their investors just because that is their declared house edge.

If the game were multi-player poker, and the house takes a 2.5% rake on every bet, win or lose, I think everyone understands that model. But we're talking about a game that is played against the house, not against another player. The house already has the edge.

Taking profits from investors when players win or loss does not inspire confidence in the house as far as the shareholders are concerned. This is gambling after all. Even the house gambles.

I agree though, that the house would have a more consistent income in the short term. It will never lose. It won't suffer variance.

Confidence = Are you willing to bet on it? If the answer is no, then you are not confident.

That may or may not factor in some other people's decisions. I am personally invested in that particular dice site, which is not an endorsement, I am talking the same risks as everyone else investing there as well.

You can also look at it another way, that the house is guaranteed to have income, therefore there is confidence that the site will make money. They are just not willing to bet on it.

Primedice is not an investment casino, and this thread is only about investment based casinos. And as for Bikinidice, op probably didn't think it was a safe investment option, and chose not to try it.

Good way to see information of the various type of casinò. But I don't see casinò like PrimeDice for example, why? Do you want to add bikini dice to your list? It is the ultimate casinò of bitcointalk community

There is a invest page or a invest button on them for you to invest in the bankroll.
You only need to create an account, deposit bitcoin in your account, and go to the invest page to invest it.

Very good info.
This looks great on paper but does anyone have any real experience to vouch for house bank investing?

(Sorry, if this question derails your thread.)