Topic: After 1 year of diversified bitcoin dice house bank investment we lost 32.46% - page 9. (Read 17814 times)

Thank you for updating your charts Very handy to know this.

That's not really an argument. Just a childish mentality: "I broke my toy, but the other kids are playing with theirs... that's not fair!"

You know if he was using the "traditional system", you'd still loose your money, right? Operator losing together with investors 'inspires the confidence'? How?

If you launch your site under the traditional system, how long are you prepared to operate at loss? What happens when you run out of funds?
Even if the site is on profit, what will you do if big investor comes along making your portion of profits insignificant? How will you mitigate that risk?

how can i invest in the house bank  of these sites?

What is the minimum investment in Bikini Dice?

I invested 15 BTC in Win88 Casino and its all giving me plenty.
Site assured me to be well compensated and my investment is safe with them.

For example, the dice site in question, just lost a bunch of profits. My share of the profits as an investor, I just lost half a bitcoin. All the while, the operator has been taking from the amount wagered. That's the thing about being in the same boat. Doesn't inspire confidence. Which is why, when I launch my own site, I probably won't be doing the same thing.

The investors cannot be paid on amounts wagered. That wouldn't make any sense. Operator's fee is paid from investors' funds (if player wins) or from amount wagered by player (if he loses).

If the investors were to be paid % of amount wagered (turnover is not the right word) then they will be effectively paying themselves from their own funds (on player's win) or from their own earnings (if the player loses). So not much logic in that.

This system is way better than 'traditional' one, as it places the operator right in the middle between players and investors, somewhat forcing him to care equally abut both sides.

There's no real benefit of operator being 'on the same boat'.

Imagine the site is making a loss for 2-3 months (lucky whales etc), you've lost some of your investment, but you're OK with that - you know it's a long-term thing. But, knowing there's a real person operating the site - you know he has to eat, he has a costs, bills to pay etc, you have no idea whether (and for how long) he can afford to operate at loss. If he can't he'll likely be tempted/forced by the financial situation to pull some weird stunt (rig the game, 'borrow' investors money, or simply disappear with funds).
With the % of amount wagered system, the above risk is minimised, as op has a steady income.

There are also a massive benefits re affiliate programs, but that's a different story.

All figures are updated again, we are just about back to break even after the Dice Ninja loss.

The Total Wagered figure displayed on the Peerbet dice interface has gone down since the last update On the 5th it was ฿476.437 now it's ฿359.488. That is one of the figures the table uses to calculate bank turnover and expected annual return and this is the 2nd it this has happened. Peerbet show another figure for wagered in the my invest page of ฿5467.832, I have contacted them for clarification. That's the kind of thing I mean when I say its still armature hour out there.


That's interesting, an operator could be making 1% on all users bets then make just enough winning bets (by knowing the seeds) themselves to take the overall site profit down to 0.5% which investors and users still accept as legit. I'm sure there is a way operators can make it provably impossible for them to do that I'm not sure if that is implemented anywhere. When you see operators report thousands of bitcoin turnover every other week with almost no change in site profit it makes you wonder.



By the "it's the same expected value" logic the site could pay investors .9% of turnover regardless of actual results, it's the same expected value but it's a bad idea because, in terms of payouts, the actual results matter not the expected value. It adds another angle to the potential for the operator to overpay themselves (in this case by over reporting turnover). I like the operator to be in the same boat as the investors.

See the table here http://www.bitcoin-dice-guide.com/dice-investment-comparison/

If there are other sites that pop up, would this kind of profits/commissions arrangement be a good thing or not?

It may indeed be a more sustainable model on the part of the site/operator. However, it does not add as much confidence some people (not all) would have on how the site does not seem to trust it's own profitability otherwise, that the house is not "invested" in the bankroll.

I had considered doing this same "percentage based on turnover" instead of "percentage on profits" model. But have decided against doing that, for now.

nice thread, following it from now

these are some good stats. thanks for this!

I agree with it as well. PRC Dice and Bitcoin Casino are strongly staying on the first two positions of this ranking.

yea i got to agree with you pawel. same ev diff either way and if it takes some stress off the owner it works for me.

In the Reviews section (on your website), for prcdice you said:


Why do you see it as a bad thing? I'd say it's a more sustainable model. It adds some sort of confidence that the dev will have sufficient income to cover operating/promotional expenses even if the site is in loss position for a longer time period.

I see it as a strong point of prcdice.

Could you elaborate?

This one look like many people to play

I always like to see statistics well done like this. Nice work

And what do you think about BikiniDice? is it a good small amount investment for a newbie? what other site would you recommend to invest that deals with altcoins for a beginner? 

i think you left out the most likely case which is site operators cheating by rolling and knowing the future seeds. any site operator that takes 0.2% wagered spread out over a large amount of time with several different accounts placing innocuously small bets is going to have one hell of a time ever being found/caught. the prevalence of the <1% house runs really points to this imo.

It will be very exciting to follow this thread. I may invest in a gambling site or two but I will be risking to loose 100% of the capital invested, I will cash out the profits every 10 or 20% to reduce my exposure.

Ok I should not invest in dice ninja...doesnt seem like a good annual profit l0l

Thanks a lot for the support and encouragement ITT everyone. The investments are now more than a month old meaning the figures are becoming meaningful. If you like the investment comparison table I think you will find even more value in the rest of the Bitcoin Betting Guide's content.

We have updated all figures again, I don't want every 3rd post ITT to be a be a screenshot so please see the updated table here.

More than ฿1000 of bets reported on Dice Now this week and even more on PRC.

It's interesting being invested in Coinwin when it has a ฿7 bank, it gives the operator much less incentive to do a runner and it means my ฿1 is 14% of the bank meaning I make 13% of site profit (after commission). The small bank is turned over every 2 days meaning I should make 0.9% every 2 days. Although so far every single operator is below their expected annual return which is calculated with that logic. This might point to operators over reporting their turnover, underpaying their investors or that bots making tiny tiny bets with stop losses on their martingales are actually making money.

It will be at least 11 days until we can update this again sorry for the delay.