AI has beaten top poker professionals - page 3.

marlboroza

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Interesting article and unbeatable proof that texas holdem isn't gambling.
I wonder how this will affect whole online poker industry in future.

Quote from: BTC_Spin on December 22, 2017, 05:07:57 AM

But who are these guys? Let that machine meet STEPHEN CHIDWICK or Daniel Negreanu with all the skills these guys have!

They are good because they can read opponents. They can't read AI.

Quote from: tokeweed on December 20, 2017, 05:14:21 AM

Lol. Not sure if serious. Negeaunu turned out to be one of the weaker poker players after a generation of online players started taking the scene during the mid 2000's. Guys like Cole South, Brian Townsend and I guess Patrik Antonious and a whole lot of young guns.

On side note he took third place as top 10 poker players in 2017.

mOgliE

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Well it's not really surprising is it?
I know that poker has even been solved in texas holdem limit. Which means that an IA has managed to find the perfect way to play the game, no matter what the human does. But it's only on head up (two players) and with limit to the bet amount.

So next one to fall might be limitless poker :p

Seeker#9

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There comes a time when artificial intelligence will dominates human lives. The AI that used in chess and poker might be the first step in modernizing the gambling world. The gambling machines inside the house will also equipped with AI in the future.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: Lionidas on December 22, 2017, 09:27:53 AM

So in artificial intelligence being so good at chess and now poker.
Does this mean that the house can always win?

If that is so then what is the point in playing against them online in a poker match.

Cause you know the outcome will always be the same
They will win 100% of the time and you are just wasting your money in playing an AI opponent. Embarrassed

That's how matters stand these days. Ultimately, in my view, there is nothing wrong with that because we're not competing with, for example, a tower crane or freight train in strength as we don't compete with a calculator in calculations. But this doesn't mean that humans cannot compete with other humans in whatever it might be. Whether some people are going to cheat is another question though. But people have always been cheating anyway.

Patatas

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Quote from: jimmy55 on December 22, 2017, 04:39:37 PM

This will obviously hurt online poker. If people are playing in person, you know they aren't an AI. Online someone could have an AI open on their computer and beat the human players over time.

That is the case even know ? Don't you think ? Why do you think the real poker players stay away from online communities or only join rooms which support live poker ? Is is not now,even the chess playing bots are better at stuff than humans which are in the games before the AI.

Quote from: Hatcher on December 20, 2017, 07:58:56 PM

Very interesting. It was only a matter of time for this to happen and I was anticipating it. I myself am a backgammon player and the reason why no one plays backgammon online for money anymore is because bots will crush even the best human players in the long run. Poker, of course, will encounter a similar fate.

I think this will give birth to a chain based system where you will have programmable AI bots which play against each other.Machines vs Machines,you are both even know.

jimmy55

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This will obviously hurt online poker. If people are playing in person, you know they aren't an AI. Online someone could have an AI open on their computer and beat the human players over time.

arisatox

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Quote from: Lionidas on December 22, 2017, 09:27:53 AM

So in artificial intelligence being so good at chess and now poker.
Does this mean that the house can always win?

If that is so then what is the point in playing against them online in a poker match.

Cause you know the outcome will always be the same
They will win 100% of the time and you are just wasting your money in playing an AI opponent. Embarrassed

That is the future we are signed up for, where robots rule everything because they are faster and smarter. Maybe it will help make people begin to get smarter too.

Lionidas

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So in artificial intelligence being so good at chess and now poker.
Does this mean that the house can always win?

If that is so then what is the point in playing against them online in a poker match.

Cause you know the outcome will always be the same
They will win 100% of the time and you are just wasting your money in playing an AI opponent. Embarrassed

tokeweed

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Quote from: BTC_Spin on December 22, 2017, 05:07:57 AM

But who are these guys? Let that machine meet STEPHEN CHIDWICK or Daniel Negreanu with all the skills these guys have!

I'm pretty sure those guys are much better than your Stephen Chidwick and the overrated Daniel Negreanu. The latter I know for sure made bank before the internet generation of poker players. Games were passive back then and almost devoid of 3 betting and for betting in both NLHE and PLO. I doubt he can build a bankroll on Stars if he started at the micros.

LuanX3

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I do think that one day AIs will be extremely smart to even outwit any human player. The thing is, AIs are mechanical and they can do almost anything that would be better than a human since they commit less error. Maybe one day the world will be ruled by robots and it could lead to those scifi movies about robots in the future we all know and love (Matrix, iRobot, Terminator, etc).

BTC_Spin

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But who are these guys? Let that machine meet STEPHEN CHIDWICK or Daniel Negreanu with all the skills these guys have!

mrproblem

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You know in chess all cards are open so it is difficult than poker. AI already solved issue in chess so pokes is easier and funny one for AI

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: hurremshaikh295 on December 21, 2017, 11:52:42 PM

AI in poker cant beat pros on the long run just because poker is a range game and ranges can be fooled therefore AI gets caught, a godo bot should learn from the villain mistakes to make them lose more money with each mistake

If so, why the pros couldn't beat the AI in the games they played?

It was a 20 day competition with a prize pool of $200,000, surely not something to sneeze at. The players tried to change their strategy but to no avail. Indeed, over a longer course, some weaknesses will be discovered in the playing patterns of Libratus which could ultimately lead to its defeat. But there is nothing that prevents it from evolving. Right now, for example, top chess players don't stand a chance against the best chess programs out there, so why poker, and especially online poker, should be different?

hurremshaikh295

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AI in poker cant beat pros on the long run just because poker is a range game and ranges can be fooled therefore AI gets caught, a godo bot should learn from the villain mistakes to make them lose more money with each mistake

benmartin613

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Quote from: Hell-raiser on December 21, 2017, 04:11:31 AM

Quote from: benmartin613 on December 21, 2017, 03:18:53 AM

Just like in the e-sport dota 2, a year ago they introduce "Open Ai" which was really good and beaten the top players of dota 2, but now that AI has been getting some smack in the ass because top player know the Ai`s potential, eventually the poker players will defeat that AI just like "black" "sumail" and other pro players who beat the AI.

Well, I don't really know much about Dota games. Are they shooters or what? But I don't think that it is possible to put the genie back into the bottle when it has already been released. You can now easily beat chess champions using common desktop computers, so how is poker different? Yeah, I know that it is in fact different because poker is an "imperfect-information" game as they call it, but the AI that beat poker champions was treating poker pretty much like chess. I mean no bluff, no hidden info.

Dota 2 is a MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena Video Games) , anyways well i think that those poker player were just amazed on having am AI to compete with, AI`s are able to beaten on large numbers of game even on gambling and poker is no excuse, let them play for over a year so that poker players (champions) can fell more on what its like playing with an AI.

paolo099

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wow, this is amazingly scary to see, where many human things are involved in real life poker games.
Ai is getting stronger and stronger every day and working in a company where the AI is being developed and used for human needs like medical field, cancer researches, rare sickness and so on, it's good to see the versatility and usefulness of machines either way.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Parodium on December 19, 2017, 05:06:45 AM

I've never heard of any of these professionals, I want to see it beat Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan.

Yeah, those players are sort of good, but they are not the top players, so maybe not everything's lost.
I think it is not very nice, that people keep creating AI which will beat people in games. AI development is a good project, but I think it should be concentrated more on other things, such as adaptation for people's social needs, exploration of human consciousness and stuff like that. People need games as a part of their life. Game presupposes that one can't always win, for thus the game makes no sense and doesn't really make people feel better. As a person can't always win, AI doesn't become cleverer when it does, it remains being a cold machine that doesn't understand human experience.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: adaseb on December 21, 2017, 04:39:32 AM

This is indeed interesting however it won't do much in either the real physical casino or in any online casinos.

In online casinos you can't see bluffing or be able to bluff.

In a physical casino you can't use an AI to bet. You are allowed to card count only without the help of electronics. However using an AI is impossible to do without getting caught.

Many people had spotters before which had a small laptop or tablet or phone that they used to determine a strategy and they all got caught by casinos cameras.

So Las Vegas has nothing to worry about.

I tend to disagree. Along with the AI technologies the technologies which make use of them are also being developed. As I see it, in the future, and not so distant future I suspect, it will be possible to extend your capabilities and expand your intelligence directly by using brain implants. Yeah, I know it sounds a bit scary, but there is no other way we are going to beat the machines apart from implementing the same technology on ourselves. Evidently, people who will be the first will try to monetize their competitive advantage, and casinos will likely be the places where these new "improved" people are going to show up.

adaseb

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This is indeed interesting however it won't do much in either the real physical casino or in any online casinos.

In online casinos you can't see bluffing or be able to bluff.

In a physical casino you can't use an AI to bet. You are allowed to card count only without the help of electronics. However using an AI is impossible to do without getting caught.

Many people had spotters before which had a small laptop or tablet or phone that they used to determine a strategy and they all got caught by casinos cameras.

So Las Vegas has nothing to worry about.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: benmartin613 on December 21, 2017, 03:18:53 AM

Just like in the e-sport dota 2, a year ago they introduce "Open Ai" which was really good and beaten the top players of dota 2, but now that AI has been getting some smack in the ass because top player know the Ai`s potential, eventually the poker players will defeat that AI just like "black" "sumail" and other pro players who beat the AI.

Well, I don't really know much about Dota games. Are they shooters or what? But I don't think that it is possible to put the genie back into the bottle when it has already been released. You can now easily beat chess champions using common desktop computers, so how is poker different? Yeah, I know that it is in fact different because poker is an "imperfect-information" game as they call it, but the AI that beat poker champions was treating poker pretty much like chess. I mean no bluff, no hidden info.

Topic: AI has beaten top poker professionals - page 3. (Read 904 times)