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Topic: ALL EYES ON SWEDEN - page 3. (Read 722 times)

full member
Activity: 2324
Merit: 175
April 24, 2020, 12:24:22 AM
#25
I can see that they are more disciplined people than the rest of the world. I have a relative living in Sweden and they are safe and sound. I hope all the countries are like this or we need to chip humanity just to contain another pandemic.

Their is stat is not that good
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Coronavirus Cases:
16,755
Deaths:
2,021
Recovered:
550

No one can live in a safe and sound environment as long as there is no cure for this virus they are not flattening the curve, if this goes higher they cannot cope up, even if they have a good medical system.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 11:54:55 PM
#24
depends what you define as 'works'
herd immunity with no isolation will cause mega deaths.
hospitals wont cope

isolation delays the spread. it doesnt make people immune. it just delays when people get it. just to take pressure off hospitals in 4 month and spreads it across many months.

the thing is. if people do become immune. no one knows if thats just for 3months or a year
meaning this whole thing can happen again next year or even just a few months

yep some people get the flu a few times a year

also people who recovered.. but done so with damaged lungs. this makes them weaker next year and less able to fight it off again next year

but ofcourse some silly fools think that there is no issue no one is hurt and no more problems for another decade.
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 1515
April 23, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
#23
Not sure how the "truth" can be uncovered when we won't truly know whether herd immunity actually works compared to social distancing. The U.S. will be the world's largest guinea pig in regards to social distancing because whether it works or not is the question about a second wave resulting in an influx in cases in the winter time. Trump's coronavirus task force press conference introduce some research today indicating that sunlight is able to kill the virus so presumably the summer will see a large decrease in confirmed cases.

My money's on herd immunity. Second wave is inevitable.

legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 11:21:24 PM
#22
badecker just answer this one personal question

what business not running has hindered you personally.
i mean dont go grabbing a script about general liberties of general population
be specific and independantly thinking for once.

explain a few things that you done in january/february. which you cant yourself now do.
again dont go grabbing info of there experience. tell me what lifestyle changes has impacted you..


ill give you an example
i used to travel the world alot. but now im stuck in the UK, and predict to be for most of the year. i have not visited family because i dont want to pass anything to them and i dont want them passing anything to me.

but i can still go to the store, yep i went to a store recently and bought new pillows, and gardening stuff. some clothes, a new microwave. and i had a haircut

now give me some of your own independant and personal experiences. of what in your life are missing, enough to put other people at risk for


and one last thing. ohio protestors at 12th-april+ and ohio has a hospital admission spike of ~300 a day march-april13th
to 1300 april 19th

yep i seen that coming
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
April 23, 2020, 11:10:33 PM
#21
Hot mic at the White House!; Sweden’s gamble pays off; Scientists, Doctors, Journalists, and Politicians agree on the Lockdown Calamity.

EDIT: Thanks, tvbcof.

and meanwhile
at 43minutes into the video. bigtree does bad maths
even at bigtree's 50x factor
firstly 43million of GUESSED infected(untested) is only 13% population

so 48k deaths of 13% =369k deaths of 100%
also you need to factor in that if isolation didnt slow it down to 13% currently
if more and more people got it. hospitals would be over run. meaning even more deaths because people are unable to get a hospital bed to get air and treatment. so the numbers would be higher than 369k

..
big tree is trying to use the effectiveness of self isolation. as the reason why its not bad. but saying it was never going to be bad.
he has no clue about maths

and he will be eating his own words when ACTUAL studies show that its not a 50x factor. but a lower factor meaning less people have it asymptomatically than he projects. meaning more people yet to get it. meaning more people yet to get sick and potentially die

learn the whole point of the self isolation
its not some magic pil of assymptomatic magic. its slowing/preventing the spread because loads of people were getting sick

its kind of funny how even if bigtree multiplies numbers by 50. its still leaves alot of dead people

People dead? When did such a thing as death ever stop? But probably far less than the standard flu year.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 10:52:10 PM
#20
Hot mic at the White House!; Sweden’s gamble pays off; Scientists, Doctors, Journalists, and Politicians agree on the Lockdown Calamity.

EDIT: Thanks, tvbcof.

and meanwhile
at 43minutes into the video. bigtree does bad maths
even at bigtree's 50x factor
firstly 43million of GUESSED infected(untested) is only 13% population

so 48k deaths of 13% =369k deaths of 100%
also you need to factor in that if isolation didnt slow it down to 13% currently
if more and more people got it. hospitals would be over run. meaning even more deaths because people are unable to get a hospital bed to get air and treatment. so the numbers would be higher than 369k

..
big tree is trying to use the effectiveness of self isolation. as the reason why its not bad. but saying it was never going to be bad.
he has no clue about maths

and he will be eating his own words when ACTUAL studies show that its not a 50x factor. but a lower factor meaning less people have it asymptomatically than he projects. meaning more people yet to get it. meaning more people yet to get sick and potentially die

learn the whole point of the self isolation
its not some magic pil of assymptomatic magic. its slowing/preventing the spread because loads of people were getting sick

its kind of funny how even if bigtree multiplies numbers by 50. its still leaves alot of dead people

oh..
and factcheck
california randomly tested 3300 people and 2.5-5.2% tested positive for antibodies
..
so lets do some better maths
and yes il even use the extreme bigtree math
lets use the 5.2% with antibodies
with santa clara having a total pop of 129k =6,700 possible asymptomatic people now with anitbodies
but wait. santa clara has 1900 that were sick enough to be tested.

so the sick 1900 vs asymptomatic 6700
is not a 50x. nor a 20x... but a 4x
yep and thats me using the higher worse case numbers

so bigtree calling out a 50x is not even what the study shows
5% is not 50X

legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 10:29:14 PM
#19
meanwhile.. whilst conspiracy nutters try to find any excuse to want dismiss the virus..
swedens numbers are on the rise and sweden is getting ready to tighten up its rules

yep sweden are not getting a plateau
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 262
April 23, 2020, 10:19:48 PM
#18
It's kinda weird how are they okay even when the most disciplined country like Japan has sky rocketed in amounts getting infected. Im just skeptical because we have seen even rich countries like Korea and Singapore with less population and people properly following quarantine protocols but they got infected despite all that safety precautions.
It's not weird if you know that what the governments say is the cause of COVID19 is a lie.

Sweden kept the schools open, since children are pretty much immune to getting seriously sick. The children are the biggest help to developing herd immunity. The older people (or the people who are susceptible if the people in the know would release that information) are the ones who need to be cautious until herd immunity is achieved by the rest of the population. I heard they've nearly succeeded at this goal.

Over here it's the opposite. They closed the schools first, and then closed most everything else down before there were 5 reported cases in the area. It's all about making a sensationalized media story showing that it is far worse than it really is.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
April 23, 2020, 09:45:00 PM
#17
Hot mic at the White House!; Sweden’s gamble pays off; Scientists, Doctors, Journalists, and Politicians agree on the Lockdown Calamity.


COVID-19: THE LOCKDOWN CALAMITY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L22hboXffXY



Cool


EDIT: Thanks, tvbcof.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 10:21:47 AM
#16
It's kinda weird how are they okay even when the most disciplined country like Japan has sky rocketed in amounts getting infected. Im just skeptical because we have seen even rich countries like Korea and Singapore with less population and people properly following quarantine protocols but they got infected despite all that safety precautions.

what you have to look at is things like border crossing
for instance america done ALOT of 'repatriation' flights from china in january. then alot from itally weeks after, when they started getting it so america brought alot of people across
america didnt start with 1 case then next week 3 then next week 3 ad so on 9,27,81
they were bringing dozens/hundreds back so the numbers in early february made them have alot before the march isolation
sweden didnt do much repatriation and they done other preparations aswell as having better healthcare and better demograph of people

so when they started telling people to stay 2 metres apart. the slowed down the spread before it really began. thus less numbers
sweden actually do contact tracing. something that UK/US didnt do
so again cut down the spread before it had much chance

but here is the thing. although sweden done social distancing and contact tracing. this stopped the exponential near vertical graph plot line. they do have a slower more linear diagonal growth line.. that is not plateauing and not declining.

this shows that if america/UK relax the 'stay home' advise and just do social distance like sweden. there would be growth. but instead of it being 2 months like first wave of UK/US it would be more like 5-9months before numbers start to get critical

UK/US hope to keep their temporary hospitals active enough to stretch it to 9-12months before critical numbers get near bed capacity. but you have to realise by swedens method that social distance and contact tracing alone does not keep a flatline
sr. member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 269
April 23, 2020, 09:05:27 AM
#15
It's kinda weird how are they okay even when the most disciplined country like Japan has sky rocketed in amounts getting infected. Im just skeptical because we have seen even rich countries like Korea and Singapore with less population and people properly following quarantine protocols but they got infected despite all that safety precautions.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
April 23, 2020, 08:15:30 AM
#14
Is Sweden throwing caution to the wind and ignoring social distancing or are they being reasonable during the pandemic? The HighWire went to Sweden to get to the truth.


Russians have flat out good saying just for this occasion - "don't piss against wind". So far social distancing combined with masks is the nicest way to prevent the disease from spreading. Ignoring that, Swedes are at risk of becoming infected literally with the speed of wind. Don’t they know what’s going on in NY?

That's why we take:
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3
Zinc
Vitamin A
Quinine, if we can get it
And generally eat well.

This way, even those of us who have been set up for CV by being vaxxed, have a great chance to not even get the flu or a cold.

Russians are into to much vodka... or actually, too much vodka is into them.

Masks are practically useless. Don't kiss your wife.

Do it right. Get into an isolation chamber. You can get your own hyperbaric oxygen chamber, and set it up so you are totally isolated against the world. You won't catch anything that way, lol.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 04:36:46 AM
#13
Don’t they know what’s going on in NY?

swedish cities are not as dense as NYC
infact many countries are different
infact different states in america have different policies
NYC is not allowing leisure activities but just basic daily walk/exercise and groceries.. yet badeckers home state allows them to play golf

its all about how many contagions there are at any one time in any location. if things get worse fast, then restrictions change.

the thing im predicting is that al them dense people doing protests in city centers like michigan. standing shoulder to shoulder en-masse will result in a rise of cases over the next few weeks.

basically their stupidity will be the cause of tightening restrictions rather then loosening them.

summary: stay at a distance, dont touch random things then lick your hand or eat food without washing hands/food first. and definetly dont lick door knobs
(yep there are actual people that lick door knobs and shopping carts on purpose)

in most cases governments of most countries are trying their best to advise their citizens to be smart and do things for themselves to reduce the risk of passing it around so fast. but when stupid people think they can ignore the advice and shout 'if its not a punishable law ill ignore the advice' they are the stupid ones that make the advice become more mandatory rule which can then become punishable

thus they are the cause of their own situation

.. take this example in ohio

"Last month John McDaniel, a 60-year-old from Marion, Ohio, wrote a series of Facebook posts in which he described the coronavirus outbreak as a “political ploy” and decried the “madness” of the governor’s decision to close the state’s restaurants and bars.

“If you are paranoid about getting sick, just don’t go out,” he wrote, adding that others should not be prevented from “living [their] lives”.

A few weeks later, Mr McDaniel died from complications related to Covid-19, becoming one of more than 40,000 Americans to have perished from the disease. In his obituary, his family requested that “everyone continue practising social distancing to keep each other safe”.
"
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 04:29:14 AM
#12
one thing to note about most 'old peoples homes' questions many have asked

yep many are questioning why these old people getting covid in care homes are not being sent to hospital.

every elderly person has had a review of their care plan which includes DNR (do not resuscitate)
this is standard practice for care homes that has been around for decades and not new due to covid
however instead of 6-12month reviews the elderly did have a review update recently due to this new event

the reason is because they are told if  their chance of survival is so low its best to just stay in a care home and be given palliative/end of life care (pain killers and sedatives, to allow them to pas away peacefully if it becomes that severe)

a few hospitals also do get admissions. to treat the immediate symptom. and then released back to the care home once it reaches the point of no further treatment requested on the care plan.

in short a few old people have care plans where they will get treatment for mild stuff but if they are told they need a ventilator the elderly requests or their care plan mentions to be discharged back to their care home to die with dignity at home

.. this actually explains why some hospital numbers report X discharged (which has been umbrella's as 'cured') but later that person dies.
not due to second infections. but due to the first and only infection not being resolved fully in the first place

legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 23, 2020, 02:14:49 AM
#11
in some ways some american states went into lockdown all at the same time even when their state didnt have many cases
but with an r0 of 2.6 a week
50-130-338
having just 50 cases passing it on. turns into 338 before the first 50 have recovered from hospital.
meaning when the 338 turn up the total bed occupancy is 518
yep thats how rapid it can be.

i know when a state only has one case its more like
1-3-7-20-50
5 weeks to get that 50 infectee rate
which actually explains a scientific reason why america waited until march to generally go into lockdown instead of february when they had their first cases.

but the point is knowing that a week is a multiple of 2.6, delaying a lockdown by a week makes a bigger difference
imagine instead of waiting for 50 in an area. they waited a week
130-338-878 (1347)
so big changes occur in short timescales
most hospitals only have so many ICU beds
with even bigger numbers the more its delayed

arizona has. if everybed was only filled with covid cases. 14k speciality beds
they locked down when numbers were around the 130 cases area
meaning
130-338-878-1400-1400-1400 * isolation caused stabilisation of the growth
but imagine just 2 weeks of not locking down in arizona
878-2282-5935-5935-5935* the beds would have been over capacity
yep just a 2 week delay to implement isolation would have caused a bed overflow
now use the number 130 and do 2.6 and continue doing 2.6 multiples until you get to high 6 digits. just to see what kind of numbers would be involved in such a short time

at the moment arizona has 14k beds for severe stuff. but lets say 4k are taken up for other ailments. and only 10k for covid.
well those not able to get one of them beds would obviously die due to no treatment(no air=no life. obviously)

so comparing the
130-338-878-2282-5935-15431-40120-104313-271215-705159
die:         15       45    110    5k       30k     90k       260k    690k   die due to no treatment

as you can see. no lockdown really changes things very very fast
those numbers are per week not per season/year

and thats accounting for only a 10% severity (7mill pop-700k severe)
sr. member
Activity: 373
Merit: 262
April 22, 2020, 11:26:59 PM
#10
The first one. They are valuing economic health above physical health. Doesn't fit my definition of reasonable.

Anger in Sweden as elderly pay the price for Coronavirus strategy
Nobody is forcing the elderly to come out of their homes are they?

They told us that the sole whole reason for the lockdown was the hospitals would overflow, and that even though people would get sick either way, it would be better to not have so many people sick at once. I guess most everyone has forgotten about this lie that they told at the beginning? If they had been doing this, they would have waited until the hospitals started to fill up before closing things down.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 21, 2020, 10:07:39 PM
#9
it is soo funny
badecker cares soo much about US deficit. and give zero craps about human health
hasnt he realised most people wrote of american economy in 2008

what is he protecting.
does badecker not realise the benefits and reasons why bitcoin was created.
why does badecker love his fiat and government and big pharma so much. trying his hardest to sell the benefits of getting people to buy chemicals in carparks

if badecker wants 'freedom' he can easily go out of his basement. go to the store, buy some bear and some burgers. and light up a barbecue in the back yard
he can even stay in his basement but have the freedom to research beyond the 5 websites that he felt limited to.

but why is badecker not realising what he can do. and instead is busy repeating scripts and rhertoric from january's crap news media stories.
why is badecker refusing to even look into the AZ DHS website. which would be a good resource for him in particular because its info about the particular area he live in

no badecker is not interested in information that can affeect him. instead he wants to repeat crap scripts abou area's that has nothing to do with where he is, and details that he is too afraid to even check. so he just blindly follows the faux news as if its true by using his ignorance to fact check.

yep badcker.
if you want some proof and you care about how things can affect you personally
start closer to home. the AZ DHS can tell you more than your bigtree fangirl links can


.. hey badecker.. BIG NEWS JUST FOR YOU
arizona governor says:
Quote
Engaging in outdoor exercise activities, such as walking, hiking, running, biking or golfing, but only if appropriate physical distancing practices are used.

yep badecker. you can go out and play golf. just like sweden
you are allowed to leave the house. no one is forcing you to stay in your basement

oh by the way arizona has not banned farmers markets.
they just said be smart, use common sense and distance market booths atleast 6feet apart
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
April 21, 2020, 07:26:45 PM
#8
Well, Sweeden... other countries...

Probably many of us have received this email. It's kinda funny in some ways. Bill Bonner.
Quote
SAN MARTIN, ARGENTINA – “What have we learned from this Coronavirus shutdown?” asked a recent acquaintance, rhetorically.

Then came the answer: “The importance of a good wine cellar and a bidet.”


Clandestine Visit

We met our new friends clandestinely, at the only hotel in the area. They are French, a psychiatrist and her neurologist husband.

They arrived just as the country was shutting down and locking up. They were at the hotel when the stay-at-home order came down five weeks ago. They are still there.

“The whole thing is unbelievable,” explained the shrink. “We were here on a visit. And then we couldn’t leave.

“At first, we were quarantined in our room for 14 days. We weren’t allowed to leave the room. Then, the hotel closed. Everybody left. The manager, the maids, everybody.

“But we had nowhere to go, all the flights had been cancelled. So they just left us in the hotel. Fortunately, they left us the keys to the wine cellar and the kitchen.

“As for the bidet, we realized how important that was when we ran out of toilet paper.”

We visited for a few minutes. Like plague survivors, we huddled alone in the hotel’s courtyard… fearful of being discovered by zombies.

“Fortunately, or unfortunately, we have the internet,” the doctor continued. “I follow the news. I don’t know what is going on. It’s as if most of the world has gone crazy. Mon Dieu. It’s just a virus. It’s not The Plague.

“There are about a million people in this province, that is in a space about the size of Texas. But there are only three cases of the virus… all of them people who had just come from Spain. And none of them very serious.

“And yet, they stop you from going to work… or even from going to restaurants or driving down the road to visit friends.

“It’s crazy. A lot of these people are poor. They need to work to eat. And nobody’s life is going to be saved by these restrictions. Because there’s no virus here. It’s crazy.

“But we’re okay. I’m used to working long hours in a hospital. Here, at least, I’m enjoying a rest.

“And my wife’s been able to keep working. She gets together with her crazy patients via video conferencing… And her business is doing well.

“Her patients are trapped in their houses and apartments… They’re getting crazier and crazier.”

We could not visit for long. We arrived by a side entrance… and left the same way.

But “crazier and crazier” seemed to sum up so much of what is going on today…


Great National Purpose

As time goes by, it becomes clearer and clearer that the C-virus is just a virus. It kills old people. For young people, it is much less of a threat than suicide or auto accidents.

And yet, their world – their economy, their jobs, their social lives… all have been up-ended.

Of course, not everybody minds. Some people feel a certain jubilation in the fight against the virus, as if they were in a real war. It gives their lives fake meaning.

Gone are the real worries – about their jobs… about earning money… about getting along with sisters-in-law… settling their bar tabs… or moving their son out of the basement.

All their real cares and concerns suddenly disappear in a cloud of Great National Purpose.

Now, they spend their hours getting mad at politicians for clamping down… or easing up. Or, they argue about “flattening the curve” or “herd immunity.”

Is Mr. Trump doing a great job, as he says he is? Or is he the clueless clown that the liberal media describes?

There’s even a word for it: lachesism. It is based on the French word lâcher which, as a verb, means to “give up” or “let go.” As a noun, it means “coward” or “shirker.”

Now, with the virus all around us, many people have an excuse to lâcher and focus on something else entirely… something they have no control over.

Meanwhile, things get crazier and crazier…


A Sane Person in a Nuthouse

The U.S. budget deficit, for example, is already headed to $4 trillion this year. And yet, here comes another budget-buster to “top up” the aid package. Roll Call:

    Congressional leaders and the White House have an agreement in principle on a nearly $500 billion coronavirus relief package and are now working through the final details, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Monday night.

And here’s the Committee for Responsible Federal Budget on the Fed:

    On net, we estimate these measures total $1.7 trillion in economic support so far – including $1.2 trillion from expanding its holdings of Treasuries and mortgage-backed securities. The total measures the Federal Reserve has announced it will allow itself to undertake could total as much as $9.2 trillion, or potentially more, if continued at current purchase limits through May 31. Federal Reserve actions have no direct impact on the federal budget deficit.

And just to make sure nobody gets in the way of their spending lollapalooza, the swamp denizens are out to eliminate the only member of Congress who stood in their way. The New York Times:

    House Republicans Take Aim at Thomas Massie After Stimulus Vote 

Mr. Massie dared to make the totally un-crazy suggestion that if the people’s representatives were going to spend the equivalent of 10% of GDP… money the Fed doesn’t have, by the way… at least they should go on record, yea or nay.

Gotta get rid of him immediately, say Republican fixers. The last thing you want in a nuthouse is a sane person. He makes the inmates feel… well… crazy. Grin

Stay tuned…


Cool
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
April 21, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
#7
sweden is not some big mass city of urban area like new york is

swedens healthcare system is better prepared for things.
they have bad winters which means they are used to pneumonia's and such.

yes this virus is different but sweden is only 57people per square mile. where as even though america has all them huge mid states of cornfields.. still ranking america at over 90people per square mile
americas healthcare is not well prepped.
and americans in general are not as socially savvy/smart as swedish.

what im basically saying is america is more dense in many terms than the swedish.

as you can see by the gun wearing militia doing protests in full body suits, masks and such. but then pretending there is no virus

its kind of funny. why dont the militia just go to a grocery store.. which are open. get some beer and then go and have a 'bring your own beer' in their own homes

just for some prospective.. swedens most populated City and capital. is the same population as phoenix arizona
as you can see much much much less dense than NY
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1375
Slava Ukraini!
April 21, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
#6
It's interesting to follow situation in Sweden. I'm not sure that their decision not to make lockdown is right. I would call situation in Sweden "not great, not terrible". Yes, situation is much better than in Italy, Spain or USA. But it's much worse than in neighbour countries - Norway, Denmark or Finland. Number of cases and deaths is really big in Sweden.
For Sweden, this virus isn't strong enough reason to kill their economy. After this global lockdown virus won't be gone. But in Sweden most people will get immunity, so second wave of virus won't hurt them so badly.
I have some relatives in Sweden and they told me that there is significantly less people in public places, they try keep distance. But very few wear masks and in general continue to live as usual. People feel confident that situation in their country is under control and they trust in their government.
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