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Topic: ALLMINE INC - FPGA Cryptominer - page 36. (Read 51510 times)

legendary
Activity: 4354
Merit: 3614
what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?
June 07, 2018, 11:47:44 AM
90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.


Again - we are not building these cards, nor designing them. Xilinx provides what they provide. The reality is there is no magic clock that makes these boards go up into smoke in 90 days. They’re reliable, but fully controllable by the user and therefore can be abused and damaged through carelessness in ways that are impossible to tell from hardware failure. 90 days covers actual defective hardware.

Regardless - here are the terms, no one forces you to buy. You must decide yourself.

Sales should be live today, once we get green light.

so basically if we stick to only your officially sanctioned bitstreams we should be withing card limits. its just if we load others we may destroy the card if we dont know what we are doing?
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
June 07, 2018, 10:20:20 AM
90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.

is there not a way to build in protection circuits to the device. i know the fpga will not self throttle (afaik) without specific bitstream support (maybe i have that wrong?) but surely there are ways to monitor critical sections of the cards (VRMs, FPGA, support chips, whatever) to downclock the device. i mean gpus are more or less bulletproof in that regard, why cant your card do the same.

seems the only thing outside of your control is ESD damage. that i can see as most miners probably ignore it.

at least offer an extended warranty for an added price.

180 days i could handle, 90 days, not so much. sounds almost like youre deliberately running beyond spec and cooling abilities and dont expect it to last.

no disrespect intended but self preservation seems like it should be built into high performance parts from day one.

EDIT btw not all miners abuse their rigs. my rigs lead a better life than my daily driver.. constant power (no cycling), better cooling, more checks for maintenance (temps, dust, cable conditions) etc.

If they actually end up taking PayPal, use a credit card that doubles warranties (MasterCard does I think).

I'm not a big fan of this short warranty but if that helps to keep the price low I can live with that. I used to be excited about 3-5 year warranties on GPUs however in retrospect I wish I had bought refurbs 20% cheaper with 90-day warranty. The low rate of failure and the hassle of RMAing the whole thing to replace a $10 fan is just not worth it. Granted this FPGA is a far more expensive product and an unknown risk so I can understand your concern.
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
June 07, 2018, 10:10:21 AM
My moniker, while perhaps not as warm and trusting on the surface, has my last name in it. So... Cheesy

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-sensel-10454a79/


Thats cool, you probably don't know that no one can access that link unless they have signed up for linkden.
hero member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 556
June 07, 2018, 09:46:12 AM

Sales should be live today, once we get green light.
This is awesome news and pleeeeeeeease make sure you do give us a complete writeup with most detailed information and instructions before you release the cards for sale. Especially minimum requirements. This is big money for a lot of people.
jr. member
Activity: 557
Merit: 5
June 07, 2018, 09:30:43 AM
90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.

is there not a way to build in protection circuits to the device. i know the fpga will not self throttle (afaik) without specific bitstream support (maybe i have that wrong?) but surely there are ways to monitor critical sections of the cards (VRMs, FPGA, support chips, whatever) to downclock the device. i mean gpus are more or less bulletproof in that regard, why cant your card do the same.

seems the only thing outside of your control is ESD damage. that i can see as most miners probably ignore it.

at least offer an extended warranty for an added price.

180 days i could handle, 90 days, not so much. sounds almost like youre deliberately running beyond spec and cooling abilities and dont expect it to last.

no disrespect intended but self preservation seems like it should be built into high performance parts from day one.

EDIT btw not all miners abuse their rigs. my rigs lead a better life than my daily driver.. constant power (no cycling), better cooling, more checks for maintenance (temps, dust, cable conditions) etc.

Again - we are not building these cards, nor designing them. Xilinx provides what they provide. The reality is there is no magic clock that makes these boards go up into smoke in 90 days. They’re reliable, but fully controllable by the user and therefore can be abused and damaged through carelessness in ways that are impossible to tell from hardware failure. 90 days covers actual defective hardware.

Regardless - here are the terms, no one forces you to buy. You must decide yourself.

Sales should be live today, once we get green light.
Will you be able to ship to Europe from the get-go or will we poor european have to wait patiently till August or buy from bittware or digikey
member
Activity: 154
Merit: 37
June 07, 2018, 09:18:53 AM
90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.

is there not a way to build in protection circuits to the device. i know the fpga will not self throttle (afaik) without specific bitstream support (maybe i have that wrong?) but surely there are ways to monitor critical sections of the cards (VRMs, FPGA, support chips, whatever) to downclock the device. i mean gpus are more or less bulletproof in that regard, why cant your card do the same.

seems the only thing outside of your control is ESD damage. that i can see as most miners probably ignore it.

at least offer an extended warranty for an added price.

180 days i could handle, 90 days, not so much. sounds almost like youre deliberately running beyond spec and cooling abilities and dont expect it to last.

no disrespect intended but self preservation seems like it should be built into high performance parts from day one.

EDIT btw not all miners abuse their rigs. my rigs lead a better life than my daily driver.. constant power (no cycling), better cooling, more checks for maintenance (temps, dust, cable conditions) etc.

Again - we are not building these cards, nor designing them. Xilinx provides what they provide. The reality is there is no magic clock that makes these boards go up into smoke in 90 days. They’re reliable, but fully controllable by the user and therefore can be abused and damaged through carelessness in ways that are impossible to tell from hardware failure. 90 days covers actual defective hardware.

Regardless - here are the terms, no one forces you to buy. You must decide yourself.

Sales should be live today, once we get green light.
member
Activity: 109
Merit: 10
June 07, 2018, 09:18:28 AM
When are sales going to go live?
sr. member
Activity: 736
Merit: 262
Me, Myself & I
June 07, 2018, 07:34:09 AM

Huawei didn't hold the gun but is paying 1B fines. Easy as that.

For warranty? Can't seem to google any related article about that 1B fines and Huawei, got link?

My mistake. ZTE got 1B fines, Huawei permanent US ban. Not related to warranty, point was one shouldn't gunpoint to get fines...
newbie
Activity: 111
Merit: 0
June 07, 2018, 07:15:56 AM

We will be building protections into the shell. HOWEVER, that's our code. We can't control other's code or what code you use. If you run some code that has no protections built in and you damage your board; do you think we should warranty that?

Obviously trying to push 300 watts through a device designed to handle 225W is not going to end well. Another example, running the devices at the upper limits of their thermal design.

That's great news. Waiting forward for Europe shipping and pricing
From what country you'll be shipping in europe?
Any possibility to take it by yourself person to person?
jr. member
Activity: 557
Merit: 5
June 07, 2018, 06:46:27 AM

We will be building protections into the shell. HOWEVER, that's our code. We can't control other's code or what code you use. If you run some code that has no protections built in and you damage your board; do you think we should warranty that?

Obviously trying to push 300 watts through a device designed to handle 225W is not going to end well. Another example, running the devices at the upper limits of their thermal design.

That's great news. Waiting forward for Europe shipping and pricing
hero member
Activity: 1118
Merit: 541
June 07, 2018, 06:30:36 AM
90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.

is there not a way to build in protection circuits to the device. i know the fpga will not self throttle (afaik) without specific bitstream support (maybe i have that wrong?) but surely there are ways to monitor critical sections of the cards (VRMs, FPGA, support chips, whatever) to downclock the device. i mean gpus are more or less bulletproof in that regard, why cant your card do the same.

seems the only thing outside of your control is ESD damage. that i can see as most miners probably ignore it.

at least offer an extended warranty for an added price.

180 days i could handle, 90 days, not so much. sounds almost like youre deliberately running beyond spec and cooling abilities and dont expect it to last.

no disrespect intended but self preservation seems like it should be built into high performance parts from day one.

EDIT btw not all miners abuse their rigs. my rigs lead a better life than my daily driver.. constant power (no cycling), better cooling, more checks for maintenance (temps, dust, cable conditions) etc.

We will be building protections into the shell. HOWEVER, that's our code. We can't control other's code or what code you use. If you run some code that has no protections built in and you damage your board; do you think we should warranty that?

Obviously trying to push 300 watts through a device designed to handle 225W is not going to end well. Another example, running the devices at the upper limits of their thermal design.
jr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 4
June 07, 2018, 06:26:02 AM
And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.

I'll take that action. Name the wager Smiley


That is my opinion. I don't bet on opinions, actually I don't bet at all. Lets just wait and see. If I am wrong I will simply admit that I was and others were right, no shame and problem with that in my book.
legendary
Activity: 4354
Merit: 3614
what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?
June 07, 2018, 06:19:17 AM
90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.

is there not a way to build in protection circuits to the device. i know the fpga will not self throttle (afaik) without specific bitstream support (maybe i have that wrong?) but surely there are ways to monitor critical sections of the cards (VRMs, FPGA, support chips, whatever) to downclock the device. i mean gpus are more or less bulletproof in that regard, why cant your card do the same.

seems the only thing outside of your control is ESD damage. that i can see as most miners probably ignore it.

at least offer an extended warranty for an added price.

180 days i could handle, 90 days, not so much. sounds almost like youre deliberately running beyond spec and cooling abilities and dont expect it to last.

no disrespect intended but self preservation seems like it should be built into high performance parts from day one.

EDIT btw not all miners abuse their rigs. my rigs lead a better life than my daily driver.. constant power (no cycling), better cooling, more checks for maintenance (temps, dust, cable conditions) etc.
hero member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 556
June 07, 2018, 05:30:44 AM
Sure, the Xilinx FPGAs are expensive, but the more "mainstream" they become, the cheaper they will be. There are options too... Like the Acorn accelerator (or the highly-rated Dwarfminer Cheesy) that can be had for $3-400 etc. The fpga's have a big advantage over ASICs too: as long as they are re-programmable (and different algos and forks thereof get produced), they can be used. The race against time isn't at all as critical as when you buy anything from Shitmain.
jr. member
Activity: 557
Merit: 5
June 07, 2018, 05:08:45 AM

And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.
I'm not that sure.
With the number of miners on the planet running more than 1 rig, there is enough pockets to be emptied.
Issue could be stock and network resilience.
Multiple FPGA farm can kick out GPU miners like myself the same way ASICs can (and do)
And if small GPU miners using only one or two card to mine get out of mining because of profitability then the whole network suffers at the profit of FPGA miners until ProgPOW become mainstream and kicks out ASIC and turn FPGA programming to a nightmare (or at least makes it far less profitable)
hero member
Activity: 1118
Merit: 541
June 07, 2018, 05:01:54 AM
And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.

I'll take that action. Name the wager Smiley
jr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 4
June 07, 2018, 04:59:41 AM
As I already stated in some threads the FPGA were overhyped as its the usual in crypto. There will be some scam threads (like that dwarf FPGA) and there will be legit ones like this one here. But the performance is not what people hoped it to be, or feared it to be it seems. They are good if you have deep pockets because they concentrate power and if you are doing large scale they have really low power consumption and that is indeed very important. But I don't see FPGA yet being relavant for the ordinary home miners like myself. For large scale operations definitely but for home use, no. To much uncertainty, to short warranty. For that price to much risk overall. On the other hand it will be interesting to see how much optimization sw developers can squeeze out of these cards and how much they can improve the hashrates.

Its interesting to watch things develop. I will definitely closely monitor the progress and read the first user reports Smiley

So no worries for GPU miner as I predicted. Always so much noise but GPU mining is here to stay and is still quite nicely profitable.

What is the most interesting part of FPGA for me is the concentration.
Heck if for the same price of my 24*1070ti i can have 3 FPGA than use only 400w instead of 2500w that will produce less heat and be more profitable why not run with it.
But the main issue is obviously the know how which i'm lacking.
I wish i could develop my own bitstream

Sure, I agree, thats why I said its for the big players. But for me and other small miners its much easier to scale card by card. I buy AMD cards (RX 580) as they are affordable and offer quite a bang for the buck. This way I can scale nicely over time because I don't have the means to just cash out 3-4K$. And even if I did have that means this is a completely fresh market. And with that you don't even know what kind of problems you will encounter. Some people have full pockets of cash it seems and can throw 10K out the Windows if need be, but I can't. I need to check every dollar I invest into mining.

And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.
sr. member
Activity: 544
Merit: 250
June 07, 2018, 04:23:41 AM
[
There's a pretty simple solution for all the potential buyers out there. If you don't like the terms/warranty, then don't buy it, simple as that. No one is holding a gun to the buyer's head to buy a product with only 90 days warranty.

If you would like a 1 year warranty, then I suggest senseless create a 3rd product on his website for $15,000 board with included 1 year warranty. There, buyer's have options now.

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Huawei didn't hold the gun but is paying 1B fines. Easy as that.

For warranty? Can't seem to google any related article about that 1B fines and Huawei, got link?
jr. member
Activity: 557
Merit: 5
June 07, 2018, 04:09:47 AM
As I already stated in some threads the FPGA were overhyped as its the usual in crypto. There will be some scam threads (like that dwarf FPGA) and there will be legit ones like this one here. But the performance is not what people hoped it to be, or feared it to be it seems. They are good if you have deep pockets because they concentrate power and if you are doing large scale they have really low power consumption and that is indeed very important. But I don't see FPGA yet being relavant for the ordinary home miners like myself. For large scale operations definitely but for home use, no. To much uncertainty, to short warranty. For that price to much risk overall. On the other hand it will be interesting to see how much optimization sw developers can squeeze out of these cards and how much they can improve the hashrates.

Its interesting to watch things develop. I will definitely closely monitor the progress and read the first user reports Smiley

So no worries for GPU miner as I predicted. Always so much noise but GPU mining is here to stay and is still quite nicely profitable.

What is the most interesting part of FPGA for me is the concentration.
Heck if for the same price of my 24*1070ti i can have 3 FPGA than use only 400w instead of 2500w that will produce less heat and be more profitable why not run with it.
But the main issue is obviously the know how which i'm lacking.
I wish i could develop my own bitstream
hero member
Activity: 1118
Merit: 541
June 07, 2018, 04:06:14 AM
And....
Unless the new bitstreams are completely free you'd end up paying more over time

Bitstream development is open to anyone. We may have some egalitarians releasing bitstreams with no fee.

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