Alt Crypots hurting prices? - page 2.

farlack

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Quote from: markm on May 02, 2013, 09:37:27 PM

Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases! Cheesy

-MarkM-

Right because most of the people you see here are buying these alt coins with btc they just bought Roll Eyes

No they're using spare funds they have to try to double their money, getting altcoin from some dude has been mining making $300 a day, and cashing out his btc asap because their value is crashing, making it go down more. Now you have more being sold than being bought..

markm

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Ah well I guess the time between births of suckers keeps decreasing as the world's hashing power increases! Cheesy

-MarkM-

farlack

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Quote from: markm on May 02, 2013, 09:12:45 PM

You buy a bitcoin (I am guessing you implied "with fiat") and use it to buy my altcoin?

Ahhh, there is your problem!

Try you sell your altcoin for bitcoins, and use those bitcoins either to buy more of your altcoin cheaper or to buy some of my altcoin, which you then sell for more than you bought it for, and so on.

Gosh no wonder you have a dim view of the markets! Cheesy

-MarkM_

Most people I see in the btc-e chat are buying off bitinstant:
You get your bitcoin in your btc-e wallet, you dump it for the alt coin.

mtgox is always worth more than btc-e, so you take your coin off btc-e and dump it on gox.
btc-e bitcoin value is always based off the gox price, if gox goes up, btc goes up, if it goes down.. well you know.

I guess it must be my paranoia since btc-e released all the new altcoins bitcoin has been going down.

markm

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You buy a bitcoin (I am guessing you implied "with fiat") and use it to buy my altcoin?

Ahhh, there is your problem!

Try you sell your altcoin for bitcoins, and use those bitcoins either to buy more of your altcoin cheaper or to buy some of my altcoin, which you then sell for more than you bought it for, and so on.

Gosh no wonder you have a dim view of the markets! Cheesy

-MarkM-

Walter Rothbard

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Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

There have been altcoins soaring in value for months without bitcoin crashing. Don't forget that bitcoin crashed weeks ago. Half of these altcoins didn't even exist then!

farlack

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Quote from: markm on May 02, 2013, 09:00:33 PM

Wait, you're saying they dump their (free, extra) bitcoins for fiat?

That doesn't make much sense does it?

The whole thing about the minor altcoins is you don't have any significant electricity or capital expenditure (rigs) to pay for, they are pretty much free, so they are a free way to get lots of extra bitcoins.

You already get plenty of bitcoins to pay all your bills anyway, so any bitcoins you are going to dump are separate from all these frivolous newcoins you can pick up thousands of with just one old 5870 diverted from mining all the merge-able SHA256 coins.

So all you're doing with these newcoins is hoarding more bitcoins than you would be able to if you only got bitcoins directly without mucking around with newcoins.

Why the heck would anyone dump bitcoins for fiat when they don't have to?

What you're dumping you would anyway have dumped even if you had not gotten some free extra coins by playing the newcoins.

-MarkM-

If I buy 1 bitcoin, buy your 1 altcoin, you cash out your 1 bitcoin, I still have my alt coin. Now I trade my alt coin all day long ignoring the bitcoin market. The bitcoin market loses out. Now 1 coin doesn't matter, but there are tens of thousands worth every day. That doesn't seem like much but gox is doing like 250k a day?

markm

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Wait, you're saying they dump their (free, extra) bitcoins for fiat?

That doesn't make much sense does it?

The whole thing about the minor altcoins is you don't have any significant electricity or capital expenditure (rigs) to pay for, they are pretty much free, so they are a free way to get lots of extra bitcoins.

You already get plenty of bitcoins to pay all your bills anyway, so any bitcoins you are going to dump are separate from all these frivolous newcoins you can pick up thousands of with just one old 5870 diverted from mining all the merge-able SHA256 coins.

So all you're doing with these newcoins is hoarding more bitcoins than you would be able to if you only got bitcoins directly without mucking around with newcoins.

Why the heck would anyone dump bitcoins for fiat when they don't have to?

What you're dumping you would anyway have dumped even if you had not gotten some free extra coins by playing the newcoins.

-MarkM-

farlack

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Quote from: chriswen on May 02, 2013, 07:47:15 PM

The money that people use to buy alt currencies has to come from somewhere. People usually buy litecoins or bitcoins first then they invest it in alt currencies.

These cryptocurrencies don't hurt btc at all. Instead they help raise the market cap of all cryptos. You don't buy alt coins with fiat. You buy it priced with other cryptocurrencies. When people sell alt coins they receive bitcoins and litecoins. They don't usually cash this out for fiat. Usually they just hold the bitcoin and litecoin. People who believe in alt coins usually believe in main coins too. They just wished they could have gotten on the boat sooner.

To keep the price moving around you need active trades. The only way btc come into play is when they're purchased, then they're traded for these other alts all day long. You have to also remember, to cash out these alt coins, they first have to convert to BTC, then dump.

On BTC-E there are plenty of high rollers doing 500k-600k trades all day long. If that were in BTC, or the second best LTC, that would help the btc market.

You get someone who managed to get 100k alt coins for dirt cheap, 1-2 btc, then 3 weeks later they're worth 45 btc, they buy from someone that was holding buyer dumps btc goes down.

markm

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Quote from: farlack on May 02, 2013, 07:37:40 PM

What is FTC- feathercoin? PVC piping? Who will accept currency equivalent to plastic. What are all vendors going to accept 102 different currencies? They have zero value, and way to late in the game to be of use. Its like coming up with the next gen MMORPG and make a flash/java side scroller in an already flooded market.

Could be, yes. That is why I was indicating the long lived ones from way back when, especially those that have been merged mined alongside bitcoin all along.

Those are the small denominations, and in the case of namecoin the actual ability to nominate as in name, of the mainline aka SHA256 style blockchain family that can and presumably eventually will be secured by all those same ASICs that so far seem mostly to have been wastefully failing to make maximum use of their hashing power by merged mining all the chains that can be merged mined (or, if some do impact the merge enough to make a real dent in income, at least all those can reasonably be merged mined).

Those are the gold leaf lettering (namecoin), the gold rings, gold ear-rings, gold gosh knows what else (gold desk-ornaments? Have you seen the Journal of Irreproducicle Results' stuff on how number of desk ornaments relates to position in heirarchy? Wink

) of the "golden" SHA256 blockchain technology.

-MarkM-

chriswen

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The money that people use to buy alt currencies has to come from somewhere. People usually buy litecoins or bitcoins first then they invest it in alt currencies.

These cryptocurrencies don't hurt btc at all. Instead they help raise the market cap of all cryptos. You don't buy alt coins with fiat. You buy it priced with other cryptocurrencies. When people sell alt coins they receive bitcoins and litecoins. They don't usually cash this out for fiat. Usually they just hold the bitcoin and litecoin. People who believe in alt coins usually believe in main coins too. They just wished they could have gotten on the boat sooner.

Impaler

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Any look at the market history will clearly show it is BTC volatility which has stimulated interest and trade in alts, not the other way around. In addition ASICs have stimulated an interest in GPU miners to go into Scyrpt coins, as those GPUs would soon have been obsoleted for BTC mining purposes they do not represent a loss of Hashing rate for BTC either.

TheSwede75

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Quote from: farlack on May 02, 2013, 07:39:48 PM

Quote from: ImI on May 02, 2013, 07:37:21 PM

LOL! You ever heard of the term Market Capitalization? The terms that are generated lastly have a tiny tiny tiny MC compared to BTCs. In other word they are in NO WAY to blame for the recent btc price drop. Also, nobody knows those new coins. Even LTC is unknown to 99% of all Bitcoin buyers not even to speak of altcoins such as FTC or BTB.

You realize BTC-E is a bigtime trader? BTC-E accepts quite a few.. even FTC now. If you're doing $3,000,000 a day in trades with these junk coins, that's bringing 1/5th out of trading bitcoin.

BTC-E are a bunch of retarded alt coin pimps. They would list their own genital warts for $20 and a pack of smokes. Feathercoin listing was just the latest in a long line of idiot decisions from the muppets behind BTC-E.

farlack

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Quote from: ImI on May 02, 2013, 07:37:21 PM

LOL! You ever heard of the term Market Capitalization? The terms that are generated lastly have a tiny tiny tiny MC compared to BTCs. In other word they are in NO WAY to blame for the recent btc price drop. Also, nobody knows those new coins. Even LTC is unknown to 99% of all Bitcoin buyers not even to speak of altcoins such as FTC or BTB.

You realize BTC-E is a bigtime trader? BTC-E accepts quite a few.. even FTC now. If you're doing $3,000,000 a day in trades with these junk coins, that's bringing 1/5th out of trading bitcoin.

farlack

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Quote from: markm on May 02, 2013, 07:34:33 PM

Its not how much they will be worth tommorow but how much they will be worth ain 4 or 8 or 12 ore more years when many of todhalve their block rewards a few (more) times.

Some of the CPU-mined coins for example are a few years old already and are not of the "same block reward forever" variety so the CPU miners hope all the GPUs will continue to ignore them until the block rward has halved at least once and maybe a few times...

-MarkM-

They wont be worth jack in 4 or 8 or 12 years.

Bitcoin is supposed to be the 'gold' of currency.

What is FTC- feathercoin? PVC piping? Who will accept currency equivalent to plastic. What are all vendors going to accept 102 different currencies? They have zero value, and way to late in the game to be of use. Its like coming up with the next gen MMORPG and make a flash/java side scroller in an already flooded market.

ImI

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LOL! You ever heard of the term Market Capitalization? The terms that are generated lastly have a tiny tiny tiny MC compared to BTCs. In other word they are in NO WAY to blame for the recent btc price drop. Also, nobody knows those new coins. Even LTC is unknown to 99% of all Bitcoin buyers not even to speak of altcoins such as FTC or BTB.

Edit: Of course they could harm the btc prices in the longrun. But the recent drop has nothing to do with that,imo.

cryptocancer

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Just to make my earlier point make more sense... not that this does... : http://www.ebay.com/itm/251268782694 $4k bitcoins anyone?

markm

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Its not how much they will be worth tommorow but how much they will be worth in 4 or 8 or 12 more more years when many of today's coins halve their block rewards a few (more) times.

Some of the CPU-mined coins for example are a few years old already and are not of the "same block reward forever" variety so the CPU miners hope all the GPUs will continue to ignore them until the block reward has halved at least once and maybe a few times...

-MarkM-

farlack

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Quote from: Boelens on May 02, 2013, 07:30:13 PM

I agree. I'm not sure if it actually hurts the prices, but the current spam of alt coins is pretty bad. I've went on the Feathercoin train and profited, and am now profiting from BitBars, but I feel slightly bad for hopping on these trains. I mean, it's profitable but I feel like I'm turning into a greedy person. After the BitBar, I'm off the alt coins (atleast the new spammed ones, LTC,FTC,DVC seems good).

Because if one day there are 100,000 BTC being traded a day, then because 5 new coins came up in the past week, now only 75,000 are traded, it drops the price.

BBQCoinsFTW

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But the thing is, you can't know how much one of these coins will be worth tomorrow, so speculators can get rich.

Look at feathercoin for example.

cryptocancer

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*nods head* uh-huh ...*keeps flooding ebay

Topic: Alt Crypots hurting prices? - page 2. (Read 2843 times)