Topic: Altcoins are a prisoner's dilemma and not possible to beat Bitcoin (Read 4457 times)
Can't believe an Ethbutter started a parody thread of this thread. Actually, yes I can.
April 23, 2016, 05:40:50 PM
Sidechains have a long way to go, but their inherent use of being a seamless method of doing proof of burn BTC hard forks will probably be valuable in the future.
April 22, 2016, 08:27:03 PM
Altcoins will die off once WAVES creates their platform.
They died off already because of sidechains and ETH. Not again please!
April 22, 2016, 06:49:23 PM
Altcoins will die off once WAVES creates their platform.
Waves is no different than NXT, Qora, and all the other closed entropy, IPO, proof of stake, permissioned ledger scamcoins. The purpose of mining in Bitcoin is to create a permanent two way peg, decentralized exchange. The word "permanent" is the important part. Without mining you have a permissioned ledger and not a decentralized currency. You need mining + perpetual coin turnover via transaction fee as block reward or inflation (the former being the lesser evil), otherwise it's not a decentralized currency and becomes both a permissioned ledger and extortion scheme at the same time.
IOTA, for example, has mining but abstracts block reward away from the mining process, making the open entropy of the system completely pointless and turning it into the same classification as a proof of stake coin.
April 22, 2016, 06:46:32 PM
Altcoins will die off once WAVES creates their platform.
April 22, 2016, 05:49:26 PM
It's much more simple than that. The fact is, no altcoin has improved upon the consensus mechanism of Bitcoin. In fact, PoS is actually a downgrade. No alt has been able to improve upon scalability without becoming a permissioned ledger or federated chain either, then they're not even decentralized currencies anymore...
Well, there ya go. One thing I'm sure of: over the long run, the only thing going for the leading alts is Bitcoin dragging them up with it.
In fact, we altcoineers are very lucky that "blockchain" is becoming the new fin-MBA buzzword - even if it grates a little on the ears like another buzzword did back in 1994. Had "Bitcoin" become the buzzword, every alt would be permanently in its shadow in the same way that every other facial tissue is in the shadow of KleenexTM
April 22, 2016, 05:35:30 PM
While OP is correct in many ways i do have to say BTC could go wrong in a lot of ways (centralisation or bloat as big threats longterm for example). When BTC goes horribly wrong you're happy to hold vertcoin or such.
And then there are black swan events that can hardly be foretold so this is all idle talk in the end as nobody here has a reliable crystal ball to see the future.
Alts always were and always will be where the innovation happens. Bitcoin can not exist without altcoins. I personally do look at crypto as a spectrum, a machine with a lot of cogs and wheels. Cryptos support each other in many ways often by accident or without the awareness of the many. It's not "this coin vs that coin"; it's "coins vs fiat"
Altcoins are part of bitcoins' ecosystem until bitcoin becomes part of the ecosystem of something bigger (which will be born among the alts) which hasn't happened yet and probably won't happen this or next year. Anyone who says he knows what the future for bitcoin holds further than 3 or 4 years into the future likely is a scammer and schould be avoided imo. There is no way of telling what might happen down the road.
There is only one thing 100% certain: the coin that could rival bitcoin will NOT be sold in a presale or ico
And then there are black swan events that can hardly be foretold so this is all idle talk in the end as nobody here has a reliable crystal ball to see the future.
Alts always were and always will be where the innovation happens. Bitcoin can not exist without altcoins. I personally do look at crypto as a spectrum, a machine with a lot of cogs and wheels. Cryptos support each other in many ways often by accident or without the awareness of the many. It's not "this coin vs that coin"; it's "coins vs fiat"
Altcoins are part of bitcoins' ecosystem until bitcoin becomes part of the ecosystem of something bigger (which will be born among the alts) which hasn't happened yet and probably won't happen this or next year. Anyone who says he knows what the future for bitcoin holds further than 3 or 4 years into the future likely is a scammer and schould be avoided imo. There is no way of telling what might happen down the road.
There is only one thing 100% certain: the coin that could rival bitcoin will NOT be sold in a presale or ico
April 22, 2016, 05:35:16 PM
From the research I've done, Bitcoin only needs to be able to reach 8-10MB blocks eventually to function as a digital checkbook type device accessible by middle/upper middle class, 1st world nation inhabitants. The whole dynamic block size issue isn't that big of a deal to me unless you believe Bitcoin can never fork to that size, but it's going to 3.2MB in 2017 already, so that doesn't seem to be the case to me. As for the anonymity thing, I already said upthread it's possible Monero could go to billions in market cap, but if it did, Bitcoin would likely be in the trillions, hence, not "beating it".
April 22, 2016, 05:24:59 PM
I just classify Monero as Bitcoin w/ ring sigs. The argument as to whether a plausible deniability anonymity set is critical to a functioning currency or not is a separate one.
This has nothing to do with ring signatures or anonymity.
Edit: It does not work in Bytecoin or most other Cryptonote coins with the exception of Aeon, because they do not have a tail emission or the tail emission is very small (DigitalNote). It could be implemented in Dogecoin because it has a tail emission. It could also be implemented in Freicoin (using demurrage)
April 22, 2016, 05:22:52 PM
I just classify Monero as Bitcoin w/ ring sigs. The argument as to whether a plausible deniability anonymity set is critical to a functioning currency or not is a separate one.
April 22, 2016, 05:08:37 PM
... No alt has been able to improve upon scalability without becoming a permissioned ledger or federated chain either, then they're not even decentralized currencies anymore...
This is simply not true. The Cryptonote adaptive blocksize limit when combined with a tail emission as implemented in Monero is a major improvement in scalability over Bitcoin.
Edit: There is a lot more to Monero than anonymity.
April 22, 2016, 05:03:14 PM
Saw that...we're in a downtrend right now, that's for sure. No hot hand last forever; neither does a hot market.
My own take on the thread subject is essentially a simple-man's take. Bitcoin was the first and the biggest, and has the greatest network effect. It's the latter point that explains why the big BTC is going to be #1 for a very, very long time.
Just look at what the network effect - plus being numba 1 - has done for the greenback. The "Death of the Dollar" has been predicted for decades by people who knew the vulnerabilities of a fractional-reserve system. Give me enough time in the long-tail section of Amazon, and I can dig up at least one book from the 1970s that explains why the greenback "is" on its last legs.
And yet, the mighty dollar keeps ticking along as the #1 currency in the world. How's that for a demonstration of the network effect?
My own take on the thread subject is essentially a simple-man's take. Bitcoin was the first and the biggest, and has the greatest network effect. It's the latter point that explains why the big BTC is going to be #1 for a very, very long time.
Just look at what the network effect - plus being numba 1 - has done for the greenback. The "Death of the Dollar" has been predicted for decades by people who knew the vulnerabilities of a fractional-reserve system. Give me enough time in the long-tail section of Amazon, and I can dig up at least one book from the 1970s that explains why the greenback "is" on its last legs.
And yet, the mighty dollar keeps ticking along as the #1 currency in the world. How's that for a demonstration of the network effect?
It's much more simple than that. The fact is, no altcoin has improved upon the consensus mechanism of Bitcoin. In fact, PoS is actually a downgrade. No alt has been able to improve upon scalability without becoming a permissioned ledger or federated chain either, then they're not even decentralized currencies anymore...
April 22, 2016, 04:43:19 PM
Maidunsafecoin? Dashtothetrash? New Poverty Movement?
Saw that...we're in a downtrend right now, that's for sure. No hot hand last forever; neither does a hot market.
My own take on the thread subject is essentially a simple-man's take. Bitcoin was the first and the biggest, and has the greatest network effect. It's the latter point that explains why the big BTC is going to be #1 for a very, very long time.
Just look at what the network effect - plus being numba 1 - has done for the greenback. The "Death of the Dollar" has been predicted for decades by people who knew the vulnerabilities of a fractional-reserve system. Give me enough time in the long-tail section of Amazon, and I can dig up at least one book from the 1970s that explains why the greenback "is" on its last legs.
And yet, the mighty dollar keeps ticking along as the #1 currency in the world. How's that for a demonstration of the network effect?
April 22, 2016, 04:01:20 PM
Maidunsafecoin? Dashtothetrash? New Poverty Movement?
April 02, 2016, 04:37:42 AM
Wrong movie. 
LOL,
That ok, it is still Funny.
FYI:
And with that I take my leave,
r0ach you may resume your fudding now.
April 02, 2016, 04:34:49 AM
When you reply to a thread trying to shill for some altcoin nobody has ever heard of and you constantly spam the word "Zeit" in bold letters over and over like a 4am infomercial it just makes everyone think you're ultra desperate to try and unload your proof of poverty coin bags on the first random fool you can find. You might want to take some type of different approach and not assume everyone reading your posts is a 10yr old.
I think he misread POS as Proof Of Shill.
Since you are a hopeless Monero shill, whatever.
Hey , you should disable your web cam.
Wrong movie.
April 02, 2016, 04:27:36 AM
When you reply to a thread trying to shill for some altcoin nobody has ever heard of and you constantly spam the word "Zeit" in bold letters over and over like a 4am infomercial it just makes everyone think you're ultra desperate to try and unload your proof of poverty coin bags on the first random fool you can find. You might want to take some type of different approach and not assume everyone reading your posts is a 10yr old.
I think he misread POS as Proof Of Shill.
Since you are a hopeless Monero shill, whatever.
Hey , you should disable your web cam.
April 02, 2016, 04:22:39 AM
When you reply to a thread trying to shill for some altcoin nobody has ever heard of and you constantly spam the word "Zeit" in bold letters over and over like a 4am infomercial it just makes everyone think you're ultra desperate to try and unload your proof of poverty coin bags on the first random fool you can find. You might want to take some type of different approach and not assume everyone reading your posts is a 10yr old.
I think he misread POS as Proof Of Shill.
April 02, 2016, 04:21:18 AM
When you reply to a thread trying to shill for some altcoin nobody has ever heard of and you constantly spam the word "Zeit" in bold letters over and over like a 4am infomercial it just makes everyone think you're ultra desperate to try and unload your proof of poverty coin bags on the first random fool you can find.
When a Group of You SPAM FORUM after FORUM, with these lies.Quote
The biggest problem with PoS is that it's not secure. Until that issue is resolved discussing value is pointless since any real value will be stolen or destroyed, rendering that coin/asset high risk and worthless.
Hey ,
Buy whatever coin you want, but cut out the lies above.
PoS is easily as secure as PoW if not more, quit spreading fake PR and I 'll stop pointing out PoW flaws every time you do.
You're just not used to someone making valid points that destroy your argument.
April 02, 2016, 04:14:31 AM
When you reply to a thread trying to shill for some altcoin nobody has ever heard of and you constantly spam the word "Zeit" in bold letters over and over like a 4am infomercial it just makes everyone think you're ultra desperate to try and unload your proof of poverty coin bags on the first random fool you can find. You might want to take some type of different approach and not assume everyone reading your posts is a 10yr old.
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