Topic: Altcoins are a prisoner's dilemma and not possible to beat Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 4528 times)

Ok ,
Prove it Crash ZEIT using one of your Tactics,

No Talk, Actions , prove it to everyone and end the speculation.

No Theories actually Real Word Evidence.
No offense but until you actually do it, it is kind of like saying
Sounds possible but I would have to see it to believe it.  

 

FYI:
Personally I hope you try corning the market tactic.  

FYI2:
Would you like to agree on a specific time and tactic?

FYI3:
Discussing Value is pointless.
That is silly, Value is always determined at specific time with specific criteria by different people,
but by your analogy BTC has no value because the PoW 51% attack tactic currently has no Defense.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-mining-detente-ghash-io-51-issue/
Funny today Ghash is only at 1%.
https://blockchain.info/pools

The biggest problem with PoS is that it's not secure.  Until that issue is resolved discussing value is pointless since any real value will be stolen or destroyed, rendering that coin/asset high risk and worthless.

Ok , i see where we have the problem,

Just because the market does not recognize their value does not mean that the intrinsic Value is not there.
And just because it has no value in your eyes, does not mean it does not have value in someone else's eyes.
I see its value, and to me it is important from a profit standpoint.

It is like this, oil had very little market value, until the automobile was created.
However it's intrinsic value was always there, it just the market was unable to utilize it at the time.

PoS can make more of their selves and move transactions at a much cheaper cost than PoW, for me this is an intrinsic value, not shared by PoW,
however if you can't see it No Worries, as with oil the Market valuation will catch on sooner or later.


 

FYI:
This is just to clearify not to pick at,
even the GMO Corn seeds with terminator technology , do produce at least 1 stalk with 3 or more ears of corn, so they do produce more than was purchased. 

Smart.  You go, girl! 

kiklo, i think you're missing the point why i LOL'd at your statement.

"All Proof of Stake coins have intrinsic value, due to the factor they can make more of themselves"

is suggesting that the mechanism for POS coins having any intrinsic value is due to the fact they can make more of themselves; that's saying something that's valueless has value if it can produce more of its valueless self 

seeds aren't valueless even if they can't make more of themselves. seeds have intrinsic value over an above the ability to reproduce. having value already make them able to increase their intrinsic value if they can create even more.

At least you have seen the term intrinsic value , maybe you just forgot its meaning.
But hey as long as no Aussie tariffs are put on your Chinese dealings , you are not really worried about it.  




 

FYI:
Funny it makes it look like you agree no PoW coins has intrinsic value, only speculation.
Which would fit with my statement the value is in the ASICS for PoW,
Can you not correlate the reference between a seed's intrinsic value and a PoS coin intrinsic value,
maybe you have a specific learning disability only in regards to Proof of Stake if you can't see it.

If the line is over your head
All Proof of Stake coins have intrinsic value, due to the factor they can make more of themselves
Ok, but don't insult it , if you have no logic to prove it false.

Ravings, there you go with insults again, seems all you have is speculation and accusations.
I sorry but you have not posted anything that shows any thought processes as of yet , try again.

Have you got any thoughts about the cryptocoin that does not yet exist or was that just another empty thought?


 

just because i'm not a fan of such mining doesn't mean i have no knowledge of or haven't tested it, so don't jump to such conclusions.

i've been around alternative currencies a long time, i've plenty of concept of mining having mined btc/ltc etc early on. i've helped dev and tested plenty of cryptos, and have a ton of pos coins., i'm not a fan of pow or pos because i've got a pretty good concept of them

this seriously in itself is a wtf statement; "All Proof of Stake coins have intrinsic value, due to the factor they can make more of themselves."

and i think you should seriously rethink it, or most would switch off to the rest of your ravings.

So you have no concept of mining , not a fan of PoW or PoS,
Only stupid thing I see is you wasting everyone's time, by commenting without any knowledge.
At the very least , you should give some details of this genuine p2p currency that does not exist yet or have you given that 0 Thought also.

 


FYI:
Intrinsic Value
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/intrinsicvalue.asp
PoS Coin's Ability to Reproduce more of it's own kind does give it an intrinsic value, that a sterile coin or token does not have.

Easy Agricultural comparison like the Intrinsic Value of a Seed
http://x-fin.com/stocks/usa/SEED

And for the PoW comparison
The ASICS holds the Intrinsic Value not the coins they produce.
Since they can be used to reproduce other PoW coins of the same algo.
Problem, their value drops due to increasing difficulty which kills their profit potential.
At most switching to newer PoW coins with the same algo is the only real way to get more than a year's use of an ASICS .

Very motivational. Thank you for sharing.

seriously i wasn't countering (or caring) about any of your arguments either way, i was merely LOL'ing at the utter stupidity of that one quoted statement 


(for the record i'm no miner, nor a fan of pow or pos, i'm here because i'm a big fan of the possibility of a genuine p2p currency, which imo is yet to exist).

Totally Understandable, you PoW miners and ASICS salesman are the last of your Breed,
with your numbers dwindling , it is best for you to huddle together and reminisce about the good old days with you made fiat with your ASICs.
Unlike the past 2 Years where the PoW mining has not even broke even with your ASICS & electricity costs.

I entered the BTC market a few years ago when BTC was $450 for 1 BTC, it only took a few months of mining to realize , I was losing fiat and would never even break even , so since the PoW miners always talked that I could make Fiat by mining , I tried again with LTC, only took 1 month to realize that was also a failing venture.
By then I realize you were a bunch of fools or liars to keep promoting a failing PoW system.

So I took one last try with Proof of Stake , Purchased ZEIT for 22 litoshi , today I can sell for over 175 litoshi , if I had to sell it now , or I can just sell my stake and keep my principle or wait for an even higher price.  For the mathematically challenged 175/22 = 7.95 x my original investment , so in less than 2 years my PoS coins has been a better investment for me that any of the PoW crap you guys offer. Plus there is so little market resistance to our coin going up , it will be at least double what it is now next year if not more.  

 

FYI:
BTC was $450 , when I entered Crypto and what is it now after ~2 years
Today it was $417.51 , and that is high compared to earlier in the year.
Keep Lying to yourself that PoW is the future, and you will LOL yourself right into the poor house.   

i agree with much of generalizethis' reply.

though people lose sight of whats trying to be achieved with developing a p2p currency.

trust and adoption is critical for a currency to be successful over and above any innovative bells and whistles. if people just jump to what ever is percieved as the latest innovative crypto of the day/week/month then it makes it very difficult for any to get sustained decent adoption.

this could be used as the argument to sticking to bᴉtcoᴉn; so crypto can achieve decent adoption, however i think its naive to think bᴉtcoᴉn is the ideal one for this purely based on it being (well in many peoples eye) the first.

100% agree.......................................................................... .................with the LOL

Many alts are more efficient at doing what they do than BTC would be at integrating them or adding them as a service layer. The whole Bitcoin is king argument hinges on bitcoin's market being so big that no one would miss the efficiency (or novelty, such novelty) garnered by using alternatives, but Bitcoin's market is neither big enough to warrant this "king once and for all time" label (see Bitcoin's marketcap versus gold and fiat), nor is the efficiency we are talking about slight enough for it to not matter (see hoops you have to jump through to anomize BTC through a mixer or a privacy coin).

Bitcoin has yet to rise out of the speculation stage, and until it does, all bets on "one coin to rule them all" are off. Not that mass adoption alone has secured any technology enough to where it is safe from cheaper more efficient methods. Instead of writing about a prisoner dilemma that doesn't really exist (why should cryptocurrency fail if Bitcoin fails or isn't top dog?) the Bitcoin maximalists (supremacists) should find those coins that do things more efficiently (cheaper) and diversify--they'll have hedged themselves and avoided faulty logic that wastes everyone's time (you first need to determine that altcoins can't survive without Bitcoin to make the prisoner's dilemma--you can't assume it into being). And every day an unproven Altcoin sits near a billion dollar marketcap, the less and less plausible this argument becomes.

Enough fiat to Altcoin exchanges (maybe even one) and the tether that holds Bitcoin atop the cryptocurrency food chain is gone. How likely is this to happen, about as likely as someone staying anonymous to omnipresent secret-hording intelligence.

I know Funny Right, all of that Logic , and all you can do is laugh.  
Well at least you aren't the crying type since you now Know PoW will eventually collapse.


 

FYI: You remind me of this guy.

LOL

You can make a Profit with my coin, try making a profit with your BTC.
My coin has a blockspeed of 30 seconds your BTC can takes hours to confirm a transaction, no contest.  
BTC requires enough electricity for a small country, my coin can be run as a minimized app on a already running PC.
My Coin does not require New ASICS be purchased every year.


FYI:
ZEIT"S Marketcap is bouncing between $150,000 and $500,000 marketcap for the past few days.
ZEIT briefly touched  $ 1,067,604,802 , so we Broke CoinMarketCap Volume Reporting.
ZEIT would have been in 2nd Place directly under BTC.  
ScreenShots included
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13636387


FYI2:
All Proof of Stake coins have intrinsic value, due to the factor they can make more of themselves.
Proof of Work Coin have no intrinsic value ,
1. because they can not make more of theirselves
2. Without ASICS they can not even move , so all of the value is in a ASICS that becomes Worthless in a year due to increased difficulty.
Sorry No Profit to be made with PoW coins in the long run, I even go so far as saying PoW is the Coin's world version of Negative Interest Rates Policy.

You're trying to pump a $50,000 market cap, PoS clone coin and calling Bitcoin "the model T"...

The very label of Alt coin is a way to try and degrade all other coins in a PR view compared to BTC.

The simple fact is BTC is the equivalent to a Ford Model T (Great in it's early days)


But BTC is no Match for the NEW Coins in comparison,


It is Foolhardy to believe one of the NEW coins in Time will not overtake BTC.