Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 132. (Read 223316 times)
The big issue is that at 0.0005 the IPO shares are almost all that will be bought, since anyone that sells below that will do at a loss. The moment the price goes up, there will be lots of share flipping on the market, selling just below IPO price. This means the income funds for buying more hardware will halt while the flippers sell their shares. This is a very big issue!
Yeah, we already went down the rabbit hole now. It would be better to simply let the market work and if Ken wants to sell more stock, just position it below the market ask. That's how it works for everyone.
Perhaps he could already define a date for the new batch and say something like "will sell for 10% less than the previous 5 days average". This would give more confidence to everyone.
Plus, if he commits to selling at 0.0005 and it takes too long to sell, many people that already invested may get anxious or need their BTC and may end up selling below 0.0005... and this could start a process of devaluating the stock so Ken makes less money per stock sold.
Perhaps he could already define a date for the new batch and say something like "will sell for 10% less than the previous 5 days average". This would give more confidence to everyone.
Plus, if he commits to selling at 0.0005 and it takes too long to sell, many people that already invested may get anxious or need their BTC and may end up selling below 0.0005... and this could start a process of devaluating the stock so Ken makes less money per stock sold.
Yep. I completely get Vbs reasoning, but for the sake of a free flowing market, i just cant agree to fixing a price after this round of fund raising is over.
I get the sense that people are dumping AM shares presently. They are going to need a home for that BTC!
Yeah, we already went down the rabbit hole now. It would be better to simply let the market work and if Ken wants to sell more stock, just position it below the market ask. That's how it works for everyone.
Perhaps he could already define a date for the new batch and say something like "will sell for 10% less than the previous 5 days average". This would give more confidence to everyone.
Plus, if he commits to selling at 0.0005 and it takes too long to sell, many people that already invested may get anxious or need their BTC and may end up selling below 0.0005... and this could start a process of devaluating the stock so Ken makes less money per stock sold.
Perhaps he could already define a date for the new batch and say something like "will sell for 10% less than the previous 5 days average". This would give more confidence to everyone.
Plus, if he commits to selling at 0.0005 and it takes too long to sell, many people that already invested may get anxious or need their BTC and may end up selling below 0.0005... and this could start a process of devaluating the stock so Ken makes less money per stock sold.
If you fix the price after these have been sold, what about the option buyers with strike prices to consider?
There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.
From my estimates, getting the hardware faster from BTC10,000 from the [email protected] outweighs the mess that will be selling shares at higher price points with all flippers just waiting to cash in. Maybe shares can sell pretty well at 0.0008, but there's no guarantee that those funds are going to AMC. Right now, at 0.0005, there is.
For each share someone buys at 0.0008 from a flipper, AMC received 0.0005 when the flipper bought it in the first place, and the flipper now receives 0.0003. Since AMC receives all the same, might as well sell at 0.0005 instead of competing in a speculative market, where it only gets a much smaller % of all sales and takes a huuuuuuge time to collect the much needed funds for buying hardware. The clock is ticking!
I agree. It will keep short term investors or flippers out for the time being. At the least keep it at 0.0005 maybe for another round of the next batch of 5,000,000?
There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.
From my estimates, getting the hardware faster from BTC10,000 from the [email protected] outweighs the mess that will be selling shares at higher price points with all flippers just waiting to cash in. Maybe shares can sell pretty well at 0.0008, but there's no guarantee that those funds are going to AMC. Right now, at 0.0005, there is.
For each share someone buys at 0.0008 from a flipper, AMC received 0.0005 when the flipper bought it in the first place, and the flipper now receives 0.0003. Since AMC receives all the same, might as well sell at 0.0005 instead of competing in a speculative market, where it only gets a much smaller % of all sales and takes a huuuuuuge time to collect the much needed funds for buying hardware. The clock is ticking!
Quote
At this point I would propose that all remaining "Early-Adopters" shares from the 20M should all be posted at 0.0005. This would guarantee that almost all sold shares are coming from the IPO stock, since there'll be almost no undercutting, with the incoming funds quickly being invested into new hardware. As I pointed before, this is a silicon time race.
There is no reason to do this, shares were selling pretty well at 0.0008. Just let the market consume the shares left from this batch, give it a couple of weeks to see what the market is willing to pay, make an announcement "We will sell another 10M shares at price XX" and that's it. Simple and easy, as long as Ken is transparent and announces things upfront.
(...)
Shareholder Count: 327
Shares Sold: 4,440,113
550k early adopter shares left. I assume the remaining 20 mil will take a while to chew through as we move upwards. Not sure how that's going to play out.
(...)
Shareholder Count: 327
Shares Sold: 4,440,113
550k early adopter shares left. I assume the remaining 20 mil will take a while to chew through as we move upwards. Not sure how that's going to play out.
(...)
At this point I would propose that all remaining "Early-Adopters" shares from the 20M should all be posted at 0.0005. This would guarantee that almost all sold shares are coming from the IPO stock, since there'll be almost no undercutting, with the incoming funds quickly being invested into new hardware. As I pointed before, this is a silicon time race.
I wouldn't worry that much about share price. The current 0.0005 is a cheap buy, and as soon as the IPO shares are gone it'll go back up. I initially bought some at 0.0005, then when it went up I bought more at 0.0006, but I don't really feel ripped of.
Only strange thing I see atm is that I bought some more 8h ago and there were only ~150k left at 0.0005, now there are ~500k at 0.0005.
But I feel confident. kslaughter is clearly not a communication beast, but he doesn't look incompetent in the matter of mining, and his future mining is why we buy these shares.
Only strange thing I see atm is that I bought some more 8h ago and there were only ~150k left at 0.0005, now there are ~500k at 0.0005.
But I feel confident. kslaughter is clearly not a communication beast, but he doesn't look incompetent in the matter of mining, and his future mining is why we buy these shares.
Here here.
I welcome the good-will intention to compensate the shareholders who feel aggrieved, but it seems a given they will have an opportunity to sell out without a loss. That could be just hopeful thinking, as i was filled @.00071 when Ken sold down to current level.
I think the issue after we clear the current allocation, is the method of further allocation/s. I think this should be made absolutely clear what the method will be, in an easily digestible way. Maybe Ukyo could validate/confirm points raised. Im saying this, as expectations have obviously not been met, in the minds of many. And many of them would be classed as newbies to this. To shift all those shares, do we not need many new participants? So lets make it as transparent as possible.
I dont envy Ken, starting and running this IPO, and Lorren has a point about different skill-sets. But Ken has painted a pretty solid plan and vision, which appears to be built on solid experience and knowledge. Thats where the value is, and thats what i am buying into.
I've had a company for more than 4 years now, and I don't have an EIN. Then again, I am a sole proprietorship as well. Does AMC have any employees? If they don't, then they could probably get away with not having an EIN for the time being.
I would agree that kslaughter isn't exactly the best at communication... I would add, also not the best at running an IPO. If he can run a mining company, then he'll be able to redeem himself. Certainly running an IPO takes a different skill set than putting together electronics to mine Bitcoin.
I would agree that kslaughter isn't exactly the best at communication... I would add, also not the best at running an IPO. If he can run a mining company, then he'll be able to redeem himself. Certainly running an IPO takes a different skill set than putting together electronics to mine Bitcoin.
I wouldn't worry that much about share price. The current 0.0005 is a cheap buy, and as soon as the IPO shares are gone it'll go back up. I initially bought some at 0.0005, then when it went up I bought more at 0.0006, but I don't really feel ripped of.
Only strange thing I see atm is that I bought some more 8h ago and there were only ~150k left at 0.0005, now there are ~500k at 0.0005.
But I feel confident. kslaughter is clearly not a communication beast, but he doesn't look incompetent in the matter of mining, and his future mining is why we buy these shares.
Only strange thing I see atm is that I bought some more 8h ago and there were only ~150k left at 0.0005, now there are ~500k at 0.0005.
But I feel confident. kslaughter is clearly not a communication beast, but he doesn't look incompetent in the matter of mining, and his future mining is why we buy these shares.
There is one pretty big problem with that. What about the people who bought at 0.0008 or some other price > 0.0005 but bought them from existing shareholders rather than from Ken? The profit there didn't go to Ken, it went to whoever flipped the stock. It gets real murky really quickly.
Again, for those just joining us, I have a very negative opinion of the issuer. Just because I make a factual statement that seems to go in favor of the issuer does not change that. So please don't attack me for defending him.
Again, for those just joining us, I have a very negative opinion of the issuer. Just because I make a factual statement that seems to go in favor of the issuer does not change that. So please don't attack me for defending him.
Other option would be to issue a special dividend, weighted by the bought share price, so that everyone that bought at a higher price gets more %.
Yes, I think this might work. We have checked our transactions to see how we can identify the purchasers and have some ideas on how to do that.
I sincerely hope that there is something you can do.
I've refrained from posting to this thread up until now.
I'm "heavily" invested in your stock, not as a speculator but as somebody who was trying to support a mining solution.
This really was not the type of news I wanted to wake up to this morning.
Thank you
Shareholder Update:
AMC 20,542,154
AMC 15,002,166
---------------
AMC 615,856
AMC 214,515
AMC 200,000
AMC 185,257
AMC 175,000
AMC 152,542
AMC 147,591
AMC 120,500
AMC 108,550
AMC 100,000
Shareholder Count: 327
Shares Sold: 4,440,113
550k early adopter shares left. I assume the remaining 20 mil will take a while to chew through as we move upwards. Not sure how that's going to play out.
--------------
Someone's conversation with AMC, IRC chat logs:
AMC 20,542,154
AMC 15,002,166
---------------
AMC 615,856
AMC 214,515
AMC 200,000
AMC 185,257
AMC 175,000
AMC 152,542
AMC 147,591
AMC 120,500
AMC 108,550
AMC 100,000
Shareholder Count: 327
Shares Sold: 4,440,113
550k early adopter shares left. I assume the remaining 20 mil will take a while to chew through as we move upwards. Not sure how that's going to play out.
--------------
Someone's conversation with AMC, IRC chat logs:
Code:
there is no reason to think those are real buys.
[00:50]Your right, there is no reason.
[00:51]thought you went to bed
[00:51]Get ready to
[00:51]amc
[00:51]could we get a picture of something?
[00:52]anything that tells me you guys are real
[00:52]a picture of a monitor of a small piece of the software
[00:52]anything really
[00:52]even you bbqing in st louis
[00:52]would be nice to see a face
[00:53]It won't be long before you will know.
[00:54]see, that sounds threatening
[00:54]I was just talking about the Avalon's getting here and we start paying dividends
[00:54]pirateat40 paid dividends too
[00:54]it worked amazingly well
[00:55]amc could increase their investments so much, if they only showed some skin
[00:56]btw, how are you guys going to be paying for the manufacturing of chips? i assume you cant do that with bitcoins
[00:56]thats a month long process of converting btc to $
[00:56]After today I don't think we could increase it much more.
[00:57]I do it in 5 days
[00:57]tax rate?
[00:57]What about tax rate.
[00:57]are you not realizing gains?
[00:58]you have to pay taxes when converting to usd
[00:58]Do you mean are we paying taxes?
[00:58]yes
[00:58]Yes, we will be paying taxes.
[00:58]do you have an EIN?
[00:59]if so, what is it?
[00:59]We are working on that
[01:00]Our agent in delaware is going to be working on that this next week.
[01:00]you cant register a company without an EIN
[01:00]Don't tell me what I can do, I been in business since I was 18
[01:01]I know what to do.
[01:02]I know a thing about this. you have to get an ein number from the federal govmnt before you can register a company state side yes?
[01:02]No you don't
[01:03]You create the company first, then you get the ein or fin or tin.
[01:03]roger
[01:04]We are in the process of doing that. Send the form to our agent in delaware.
[01:05]didnt mean to sound aggressive. just a lot of shit flying around right now, and im pretty heavily invested,
[01:05]Anyway, VMC is spinning off AMC into a foreign entity of its own.
[01:05]Ok
[01:05]any timeline on when/if the vmc shares become available?
[01:06]I would like to have done them this coming week, however with what happen today I don't know.
[01:08]le2: Nice talking with you, going to bed now.
[01:08]ttyl
[01:08]Last question ;) on the bitcointalk forum, one user mentioned that it costs upwards of 2million$ to get masks and all that jazz for sub 50nm chips, from the share selling, we're at almost 5million, which is about 300k$
[01:09]do you foresee a delay on the chip making?
[01:09]We have a better way 150-400 thousand
[01:09]ttyl
[01:10]They are working on feasibility study now, I have to redo some RTL code this weekend to make it work on their tools
[01:10]gl
[01:11]We will have to wait and see.
[01:11]gl?
[01:11]good luck
Why did the shares just dissappear ?
Ukto, ask me to remove the ask while we had a conversation.
Why did the shares just dissappear ?
Ken was offline when I made the forum post letting him know he can set the price however he wants.
When he came back online I suggested he might want to take them down temporarily while we talked in case of abuse.
As I told Ken, I am not requiring him to set a price, but would like him to make a statement in the Summary regarding the shares as previously mentioned so newer investors can be informed of the status of shares.
It sounded as if he plans to put the remaining 1mil shares back up at the 0.0005 and let those run their course.
Ukyo thanks for the update. Also quick shoutout love the site. Since there is a large sum of bids crowding at .0005 right now for clarification does your matching engine do FIFO.
Yes, FIFO is only fair.
Why did the shares just dissappear ?
Ken was offline when I made the forum post letting him know he can set the price however he wants.
When he came back online I suggested he might want to take them down temporarily while we talked in case of abuse.
As I told Ken, I am not requiring him to set a price, but would like him to make a statement in the Summary regarding the shares as previously mentioned so newer investors can be informed of the status of shares.
It sounded as if he plans to put the remaining 1mil shares back up at the 0.0005 and let those run their course.
Ukyo thanks for the update. Also quick shoutout love the site. Since there is a large sum of bids crowding at .0005 right now for clarification does your matching engine do FIFO.
Why did the shares just dissappear ?
Ken was offline when I made the forum post letting him know he can set the price however he wants.
When he came back online I suggested he might want to take them down temporarily while we talked in case of abuse.
As I told Ken, I am not requiring him to set a price, but would like him to make a statement in the Summary regarding the shares as previously mentioned so newer investors can be informed of the status of shares.
It sounded as if he plans to put the remaining 1mil shares back up at the 0.0005 and let those run their course.
Also, I have asked Ken if he would be willing (with an NDA if need be) to share some of his work and allow me to see a bit of what he's working on so I can at least tell people that there are things happening. I think we would all be interested in seeing what comes of this and should solve some concerns.
People just have it ingrained in them that the markets going back to .0005 since it keeps getting slammed down there. This is the problem with shifting the market offer wall up and down and just running people over. People are speculating in the offer wall moving not the investment.
Seems like 0.0005 is the right price if you want to raise money quickly, you've got over 700btc in a single day
as opposed to 100-200btc when you were selling it at a much higher price.
you have no idea how much he collected at any given price if you aren't accounting for how many shares he bought himself as opposed to 100-200btc when you were selling it at a much higher price.
Seems like 0.0005 is the right price if you want to raise money quickly, you've got over 700btc in a single day
as opposed to 100-200btc when you were selling it at a much higher price.
as opposed to 100-200btc when you were selling it at a much higher price.
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