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Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 65. (Read 223316 times)

full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
We are in the process of compiling a FAQ's which should be written on Monday and posted soon after that.  It may need to be reviewed and rewritten before it is posted.  I am going to post that in the reserved post that I have at the beginning of the thread.  That way if anyone ask a question that is answered in the FAQ's we can point them to that message.

Excellent!  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Ken has not addressed many of the issues discussed here for the last few days. I've asked questions in regards to the AMC/VMC structure, capping out the shares issues at a lower number, distribution of dividends from hardware/mining, issuing of new shares, and protection of shareholders investment by keeping funds within AMC (no side project funding for Ken's personal venture). Would like to see if Ken or anyone that has asked to Ken about these issues for clarification. These are just some of the issues at the top of the list for me. I am sure we all have more to add but let's get the ball rolling from here.

If think part of the problem is many people here have not done their due diligence and expect to be spoon fed information that is available elsewhere in the thread. I've studied this security and watched Ken's moves and I feel I have a good understanding of the value proposition. Basically, what I'm saying is I am comfortable with my significant investment and where we are.

However, there are outstanding questions that have not been answered, or could due with further clarification. I like your idea i.e. let's get the ball rolling. Maybe we could compile a small number of questions for Ken over several posts, to be presented *one at time*, and maybe Ken can commit to feedback whenever his schedule allows. The real challenge will be keeping the spammers like Megamouth in check. So, I'm afraid that although I'd like to try this approach, I'm not confident it will work because it only takes one unethical poster to sabotage the plan.

If we *can* get this approach to work, we should aim to build a FAQ which everyone can refer back to in future. If we *can't* get it to work, I'll live with it and wait for future news and dividend payments to validate my decision to invest.

We are in the process of compiling a FAQ's which should be written on Monday and posted soon after that.  It may need to be reviewed and rewritten before it is posted.  I am going to post that in the reserved post that I have at the beginning of the thread.  That way if anyone ask a question that is answered in the FAQ's we can point them to that message.
full member
Activity: 148
Merit: 100
48 yes to 48 no (after my yes vote). A really odd number IMHO.

To clarify, I want to keep the criticism, but just not the behaviour thats occurring... from both sides.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Ken has not addressed many of the issues discussed here for the last few days. I've asked questions in regards to the AMC/VMC structure, capping out the shares issues at a lower number, distribution of dividends from hardware/mining, issuing of new shares, and protection of shareholders investment by keeping funds within AMC (no side project funding for Ken's personal venture). Would like to see if Ken or anyone that has asked to Ken about these issues for clarification. These are just some of the issues at the top of the list for me. I am sure we all have more to add but let's get the ball rolling from here.

I think part of the problem is many people here have not done their due diligence and expect to be spoon fed information that is available elsewhere in the thread. I've studied this security and watched Ken's moves and I feel I have a good understanding of the value proposition. Basically, what I'm saying is I am comfortable with my significant investment and where we are.

However, there are outstanding questions that have not been answered, or could do with further clarification. I like your idea i.e. let's get the ball rolling. Maybe we could compile a small number of questions for Ken over several posts, to be presented *one post at a time*, and maybe Ken can commit to feedback whenever his schedule allows. The real challenge will be keeping the spammers like Megamouth in check. So, I'm afraid that although I'd like to try this approach, I'm not confident it will work because it only takes one unethical poster to sabotage the plan.

If we *can* get this approach to work, we should aim to build a FAQ which everyone can refer back to in future. If we can't get it to work, I'll live with it and wait for future news and dividend payments to validate my decision to invest.

Edit: Oh, and I really want to make it clear I believe there are a significant number of people here who are trying to get the terms of the offering modified for financial gain. It seems a lot of people got burnt through naivete/poor decisions and they should *not* be reimbursed or compensated in any way. That way lies Moral Hazard and the corruption of the legacy finance system.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Forget the Poll Ken - the thread has only got this way because of your silence. Start addressing the valid concerns and you won't then need to censor your shareholders.

My advice needs to be repeated - cover yourself here and don't put anymore money into VMC's account until 'Mr Slaughter' reveals himself and answers the valid questions that he has blatently been refusing to answer.

Exactly. Where is Ken's input as the CEO of AMC? No responses? What kind of CEO ignores shareholders requests for clarification and solutions to a major issue.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Quote
Treasury:      0.12 BTC ?

What is that?

He pays dividends to unsold shares, so they go back to the company on top of the 'reinvestment shares'.

I know, both concepts are ridiculous, and would never pass muster with an accountant.  It's just another mechanism to bleed the shareholders.

Seriously? Only that is enough to never list stuff like that.
You are correct it ridiculous and you do not have to be accountant to understand this. Is it possible, he has no idea wtf treasury stock is and just used a fancy word? Smiley

Every share bought back by the Co becomes treasury stock - no divs, no voting. Period! Those share can be later canceled.
When shares are bought back - number of outstanding shares must be reduced (btc-tc supports that) and there is also reduction of company assets (_cash_ used to buy the shares). This is usually done when  Co shares are undervalued for what ever reason and it actually makes sense to buy them back.

If Co has 1000 outstanding shares and 1000 coins
Co buys back 100 shares for 100 coins, they are left with 900 shares outstanding and 900 coins as cash.

Now, if that same Co makes 50 in profit and has 900 shares outstanding and 100 in treasury, 50 gets divided by 900 shares and NOT by 1000 (900+100)

"reinvestment share"? I hope they mean the % of profits reinvested. Nothing wrong with that because the coin stays in the Co as an asset.

I do not have enough LTC shares to be part of the official voting process. Regardless, we need to do everything to keep scams like this off the exchange(s).

Now, this scam has happened. Guy has the coin and it's probably all transferred to his wallet. Only way to fix this mess is if he fixes the contract so shareholders do not get ripped off.

Ken, are you willing to do that?


This change needs to be a top priority as well. Unsold shares should not take in dividends. Shareholders should take in all dividends along with the fixed 20m growth fund.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Ken has not addressed many of the issues discussed here for the last few days. I've asked questions in regards to the AMC/VMC structure, capping out the shares issues at a lower number, distribution of dividends from hardware/mining, issuing of new shares, and protection of shareholders investment by keeping funds within AMC (no side project funding for Ken's personal venture). Would like to see if Ken or anyone that has asked to Ken about these issues for clarification. These are just some of the issues at the top of the list for me. I am sure we all have more to add but let's get the ball rolling from here.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Once again lolstate, you make claims that have no substance.  NONE of these have been addressed by Ken at all.

We could go back and forth if you like, but what is the point? You say he hasn't, I say he has. He has. Go back and review the thread.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
I voted yes to delete all the crap spam that has taken this thread over. 

I would also like to hear from Ken regarding the questions and accusations, in detail.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?

You've started to spam again. You're added to the list  Cheesy.
Please add me aswell, because I was about to ask you the same question. Thanks.

Why, what have you done to count yourself in MM's league?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Bitfunder Shares Issued 40,000,249 (number changes few times per day) and BTCT Shares Issued 5,000,000  Huh

It is good thing that BTCT guy is starting to realise the truth with AMC / VMC deal ("Definitely does not sound good for investors").

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2617303

This is an excellent post from Burnside and I recommend everyone reads it. It is sensible, level headed and a breath of fresh air in comparison to the nonsense Megamouth gets away with. Ironically, it does not give much support to MM's agenda with all his FUD  Cheesy.

It's easy for people to forget that when they participate in this new economy they are among the very earliest of adopters. Every new market and industry goes through growing pains. This is what we are seeing here. We are trail blazing a new economy. We are the ones that have to take most of the pain and stress so others that follow will have a much easier time. If you are ready to accept this and the associated high risks, the rewards could be great.
hero member
Activity: 662
Merit: 545

A lot of this stuff has been addressed.

Nonsense - none of it has been addressed.

I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy.

Dunno why you refuse to accept lots has been covered. It has been - go back and review this thread if you can hack through the noise  Wink

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Once again lolstate, you make claims that have no substance.  NONE of these have been addressed by Ken at all.
full member
Activity: 218
Merit: 100

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?

You've started to spam again. You're added to the list  Cheesy.
Please add me aswell, because I was about to ask you the same question. Thanks.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?

You've started to spam again. You're added to the list  Cheesy.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.

Are you insane?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100

A lot of this stuff has been addressed.

Nonsense - none of it has been addressed.

I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy.

Dunno why you refuse to accept lots has been covered. It has been - go back and review this thread if you can hack through the noise  Wink

Blue chips use PO Box addresses all the time. It is standard practice for mail to be sent to one location then forwarded to another. There is nothing controversial about this, it's a fact.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10

A lot of this stuff has been addressed.

Nonsense - none of it has been addressed.

I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.

Blue Chip companies do not use mailboxes in side street shops. They have offices you can visit, they are regulated by government agencies, the company Directors publicly display their CV, home addresses registered, bank accounts audited, news release claims are independently verifiable for accuracy.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Things that need to be answered directly from Ken.

A lot of this stuff has been addressed. We are just going around in circles here. I also have to chuckle when people act like they are shocked a company uses a PO Box. If that qualified a company for scam status, 99% of all blue chip companies would fall foul.
hero member
Activity: 662
Merit: 545
Things that need to be answered directly from Ken.

The address is posted on the btct.co asset details page.

Quote
Office Address:

Active Mining Corporation
95 Wilton Road
Suite 3
London
SW1V 1BZ
United Kingdom
Fax: +44 (0)20 3004 1756



umm... lol?



Not sure where this address was found - is it a genuine AMC claimed address on their website?

Just a little research shows that this address and specifically 'Suite 3' was  used circa 2007  by Italian money launderers and scam artists some of who have been jailed for a multi-million pound internet fraud.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/02/422284.html?c=on

A link on that page shows the 'Suite 3' address is infamous in the arena of London-based scam companies (currently still registered as well as historic) many many of which have been set up claiming 'Suite 3' as their 'office'. Apparently there is probably no office or suite at the property just a seemingly very 'accommodating' Mail hosting operation.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/wsr-csr-corporation-worldwide-england-greater-london-c142076.html

What does this prove? Well it proves that AMC are pretending they have a London office that is infact a mailbox. It also proves AMC are using the exactly the same distancing and 'keeping anonymous' techniques that scam artists successfully use. Anything else? I have a question - Should a 25mill dollar business be using an anonymous mailbox as used by convicted scammers, or should they have a bit more transparency?




I don't like this whole VMC/AMC structure. Why are we risking everything to fund VMC's hardware project? Wouldn't it be better for VMC/AMC to be one entity and manufacture hardware and mine just like ASICMINER? I've been reading this thread since day 1 and there is so much drama, confusion and lack of transparency. Why can't we just keep it simple? Wouldn't it make more sense to have VMC/AMC operate under one roof. AMC can manufacture hardware and mine. AMC can use the hardware to mine or sell it if it will generate additional income on the side just like ASICMINER. With the mining revenue and hardware sales it will to back to the shareholders in dividends. The 20m in growth and expansion fund will then be used to continue manufacturing and selling more hardware. If more shares need to be released to raise funds for more growth and expansion then those shares can be released at the market price at that time. What do you guys think? Isn't this more easier to work with? Then AMC will be able to take in profits from mining and hardware sales and the investors will be happy and it will give the company more value.


I 100% agree with this.

The most worrying aspect of the whole setup, is why does VMC, and ultimately Ken, benefit 90% from hardware sales that AMC (read, US) invested in and funded.

I think if Ken were to change this aspect, it would greatly improve the investment in AMC for everyone, and new investors would come onboard instead of being worried about this strange aspect.

Do what ASICMINER is doing ... use the funds ... create the hardware ... use it to build a mining aspect, and sell the rest of the hardware.

THAT, makes sense.

And further, if Ken did do this, he shouldn't feel like he is backing down or will be looked upon badly, quite the opposite! It would add credibility for listening to shareholders and shows that he is truly looking after the shareholders interests. Which is his number 1 duty.

Can we get a response to this Ken? This would really give investors more confidence and transparency to what they are investing into. Possible investors would be less confused as well. ASICMINER has a good plan and business model and it works.

Would it be possible for Ken to re-write the original contract and get rid of a lot of wacky text that works only in his & VMC's favor? If this happened and there would be no more price manipulation and also dilution of shares.

I would want the cap set at a lower amount of shares. 40m sounds reasonable where 50% of the revenue goes back into grow and expansion and 50% goes back in dividends to shareholders. New shares that have yet to be released should be released at the market value at the time of the release. VMC/AMC should keep things simple like ASICMINER by mining and manufacturing hardware. This way investors are happy because they are investing into 100% of the business without us funding Ken's side project (VMC). Also i think this will eliminate all the heat being put on Ken and scaring away new investors. Sound reasonable guys?


I do however still consider there to be a vast amount of issues that need to be addressed before I can call AMC anything else then a "pretty damn close to a complete scam" based on a lot of the things brought up here. Starting with but not exclusively related to:

- pricing structure and expected profit margin
- ownership structure
- share structure
- ownership structure relating to profit and risk sharing related to VMC'S/AMC and Ken.
- listing practices and total share amount, listing time and dividend placement


legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1000
AMC is second worst stock on BTCT, by score. Well deserved!



And the operator of Cognitive (Garr225) has been found to shill his own auctions by using sock puppets, and he has a score of 7.

This place is a farce, and wonder why people 'participate' more and more. Bitcointalk is the centre of all things Bitcoin is it?
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