Topic: [ANN] [888] [SCRYPT] OctoCoin ◦ The Power of Eight ◦ Don't Blink - page 16. (Read 297683 times)

sounds good, 8,888,888 octoparty, 1 octoparty for every 8 octocoin

estimated 40 mil current, ~5 mil octoparty to octocoin investors and ~4 mil for sale

but we need to make sure the premine for octocoin can't be traded

But lets not call it octoparty, lets just call it octo, then work out what symbol to use

I had suggestions for 8.8 Million and 8.88 Million.

I wasn't thinking about doing it that away. So that puts us close to 9 Million but not quite.

This may be our first thing to discuss and vote. The coin total cap, what the burn ratio is and how much to sell at the first crowd sale.

I would think most people would think that divisible is good. I see not reason to not have it divisible like Bitcoin or other alts. If it was a points system or an actual stock that you won't split I could see keeping it whole. Or if the token represented one object or physical item you wouldn't want a divisible coin.

Yes, 8.8 million coins sounds good to me. And yes it still needs to be divisible by 8 IMO.

And consider this.... usually the lower the cap on the coin the more potential price per coin being higher due to scarcity. We could easily do 8 Million OCTOPARTY total.

We also need to decide if each coin is 1 whole coin or if it's divisible like most coins where you have the 8 decimal places.

so every 8 Octocoins = 1 OCTOPARTY?

or you mean vice versa? 1 Octocoin = 8 OCTOPARTY?

I think the lower we keep Octocoin holders holdings in OCTOPARTY the better chance we have at success at a crowd sale. Now we want to make sure we have our fair share and that people will be able to make money when the price of OCTOPARTY goes up. We also want to make sure that we have a good balance as a % of all OCTOPARTY.

Here's the question though: What is a balance, if any, that someone spending Bitcoin in a crowd sale will find acceptable? We need to make sure they understand and believe that we are not here to take their Bitcoin, drive up the OCTOPARTY price, dump and disappear with Bitcoin. I know that many of us will probably purchase OCTOPARTY in the crowd sale to support the project. But if you weren't an Octocoin holder, if you were just a regular person with some Bitcoin and you found a project that you thought could be profitable but you saw that a % of the coins were already held by a group, would you trust it's not a pump n dump scheme?

Now on the flip side, if you are the regular BTC holder looking to invest, you have to understand that this isn't a pre-mine or just a group that holds for no reason. This isn't a dev giving all of his friends some coins to dump. This is part of the narative, part of the story. We all put in mining for months. We all spent Bitcoin for months. The market may have delisted  Octocoin when the devs disappeared and it's hard to put a dollar or BTC value on Octocoin at the moment but at one point it was damn near 2 cents a coin. We may not be burning Bitcoin to create XCP but we are still burning the time mining and BTC we spent to buy and hold Octocoin. We may not be transferring an expensive holding like Bitcoin was to create XCP, but what time and money spent on Octocoin still had decent value at one point and a value that you can't put a price on when you consider our support for what we thought would be a good project in the 8 Octocoin apps.

So there lies the balance we have to create. When I was explaining the burn and the plan to a friend and holder of Octocoin he wasn't convinced that we would have support in a crowd sale if Octocoin holders burn and have a huge stake in OCTOPARTY because people would look at it like they look at a premine. I definitely see his point. I think the key is to treat it like some of the successful alt coin devs have treated their pre mines. Keep them small, for a good reason or cause and be very, very transparent.

A burn definitely keeps it transparent. A good plan for how they crowd sale BTC will fund the project has to be transparent. Having multi-sig wallet including at least 1 trusted person from the Bitcoin community should help gain some trust that we aren't going to take their Bitcoin and run or just spend/waste Bitcoin. Having payouts with that trusted party signing off on them only when miestones of the project are reached will also gain trust.

So the question still remains. What % should Octocoin holders hold if we do 8,888,888 OCTOPARTY coins? What % of OCTOPARTY coins should be sold in the first crowd sale? Do we do a smaller % and hold some of the OCTOPARTY coins for future distribution in a crowd sale to fund other projects? Do we distribute all of the OCTOPARTY coins in 1 crowd sale and find other ways to raise money for future projects?

If you think about the total being 8,888,888 I think that for the first project you would have to distribute enough coins that the BTC holders have a larger % of total coins currently available. That way Octocoin burners coins aren't as much of a risk as a pump n dump. If we only sell a small % of the 88,888,888 coins and hold back some for future projects, then between the burners and buyers it will = a fairly small number of total OCTOPARTY available. I would think that the price per OCTOPARTY would be pretty decent.

Of course, that then would affect the burn. I don't know if we could do a 1:1. Or if we did do a 1:1 burn and we have 20 million OCTOPARTY created from the burn we would have to sell like 30-40 million OCTOPARTY in a crowd sale so they have a slight advantage over the burners.

If that is the case it would leave roughly another 20-40 million for future sales to raise for other projects.

It's such a strange and interesting thing to think about setting up. There are many different ways we could do this.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this. Sometimes the best way to reach a conclusion is to hear many different ideas and reasons for doing things other than the way you would initially do them. Remember, everything I wrote above is just MY thoughts on this and not necessarily the way it SHOULD or WILL be done. Don't worry, we will come to some sort of consensus and vote on how we burn and distribute. We are all in this project together as the original holders. Just remember, it may feel weird to give up some Octocoins for less OCTOPARTY than a 1:1 trade but if you want to create value and gain trust on a buy in, that MAY be what we NEED to do.

I hold about 200,000 Octocoins at the moment. There are people with way less and people with way more. Some involved in the burn hold over a million. There are a few of them. They could take a 8:1 cut and still be large holders. Those with less than 100,000 Octocoins may not be the ones who want to cut into their holdings at an 8:1 burn ratio. I don't blame you. At 200,000, an 8:1 burn would only create 25,000 OCTOPARTY for me. But when you compare a dead abandoned coin with no listing on any good exchanges and no current market price to a new CP asset that is holding a crowd sale for BTC to fund  their first project, I think the latter will prove to be more valuable.

Now that was at an 8:1 burn. It doesn't have to be that high. It could be 3 Octocoins = 1 OCTOPARTY.

Just remember, depending on the number of coins burned and the ratio, combined with the number we sell in the crowd sale, how many OCTOPARTY will be available to fund future projects? If this first project is successful and we want to do more projects, i'm sure we can sell less OCTOPARTY for more BTC based on the success and trust gained from our launch of the coin, first crowd sale and completion of the first project. The value of OCTOPARTY should be fairly decent based on the first project with only a certain % of coins in circulation. As we come up with more projects down the road, maybe there are other ways to raise money to fund them and we don't need to hold any OCTOPARTY from the first sale. We just put all OCTOPARTY into 100% circulation.

Ok, let's hear what everyone thinks!

I had the following idea:

Octos that are burned are divided by 8
and total coins: 8,888,888 Octotoken (or however we call it)

i think this is fair regarding what the octoholders went through and still we got a huge amount for the crowd sale.
And jeah, it still more looks like Octo.

The burn can happen in a reasonable amount of time. However, planning for a first project and a crowd sale will be a fairly long task.

Let's set a deadline and get this done. The longer we wait the worse it will be. Set a date and get it done!!!!!!!!  I am all in!!

So here's a something to think about. If we get close to 20 million what should we make the cap? I would think that anyone that would invest in a crowd sale would have to receive an substantial amount  of OCTOPARTY in order to trust that the burn holders in charge of 20 million don't have an out of balance % of the total coins. Then if you factor in any coins to hold for paying out to devs, paying bounties, promotions, etc., you have to keep it at a fairly low % level. I think you have to look at it in the form of a premine. If it's a small % most consider it acceptable if the distribution is transparent. Now we don't have to hold any of that. We could just pay that out from the burned coins. We already have an anonymous donor that will burn 250,000 to be used strictly for devs and promotions.

We also need to consider the return price based on the cap. We could even do it at a lower ratio than 1:1. If the goal is to keep the cap fairly low and you have 20 million octocoins burned then the ratio may have to be less than 1:1 burned in order to have the crowd sale coins balance it out.

Based on the name Octo and the 888 ticker in some form would we want 8 mil, 88 mil, 888 mil? Keep it the same as Octocoin and do 88,888,888?

Interesting to think about.

XCP - current coins - 2,646,359 - current price: $ 1.99$ - current market cap: $ 5,266,095 - counterparty platform

SWARM - current coins - 99,945,431 - current price: $ 0.010260 - current market cap: $ 1,025,400 - crowdfunding

SJCX - current coins - 41,464,404 - current price: $ 0.024744 - current market cap: $ 1,025,991 - distributed cloud

GEMZ - current coins - 88,135,367 - current price: $ 0.019102 - current market cap: $ 1,683,518 - encrypted mobile messaging

XCPSCOT - current coins - 1,000,000,000 - current price: $ 0.000095 - current market cap: $ 95,072 - country coin

FLDC - current coins - 109,000,000 - current price: $ 0.000410 - current market cap: $ 44,729 - distributed computing for  disease research.

Where do we want OCTOPARTY to fit in with other top assets?

Also we could consider cross marketing with these assets. I know ScotCoin said they were interested. They also cross promoted with FoldingCoin recently and got media attention. They donated a portion of their coins to be distributed as payment along with FoldingCoin when users donated computing towards disease research. That might be something we consider to do to help get our coin spread out to other asset holders that won't know about that.

http://foldingcoin.net/2015/01/announcing-scotcoin/
https://letstalkbitcoin.com/forum/post/scotcoin-joins-merged-folding
http://scotcoin.org/

I'm thinking closer to 20+ million octocoin will be burned.

The need for hash support will be highest when we are doing the actual swap. Most forks will self-correct within a few blocks unless there is a sustained attack... and even then it should switch to the longest chain (the sustained attack chain) in fairly short order. That being said... I have seen a fork recently that re-wrote 1500+ blocks of data and nearly brought a coin's network to a halt when it corrected itself to the proper chain.

We need an extremely stable network while doing the swap so that coins being sent to the burn address aren't sent on a bad fork. They should be recoverable, but I would hate someone sending in 1 million+ 888 (or any amount, for that matter) to get them lost on a fork, even if temporarily.

Hash rate has been higher, recently. Whether that is because of a couple more people mining or people seeing activity on the thread and trying to grab some more OctoCoin before the burn party... or hoping they can dump them on Xnigma if the price rises. I think the latter is what was seen the past couple of days when the hash rate jumped up to around 250mh/s.

networkhashps" : 51596300

Over 50 Mh/s!!

I just added mine to it.

based on what quite a few people have stated octocoin holding wise i wouldn't be surprised if we burn over 10 million octo at this point.

Looks like we might have some hashing support.

If people saw the jump in hash i wonder if random ppl would mine also lol.

I can put my ACIS (20 MH) on OCTO if you need them.  BTW, I have about 300,000 OCTO right now.

Joshycoin has some script asics in our basement and about 600,000 Octocoins. I'm sure he'd prolly hash for a week to up that number for a burn and to help secure the chain. I know one other guy that also has script asics that i'm texting today to see if he'll commit to hash for a week. He's also a large holder of Octocoin.

Joshycoin has like 40 MH/s total maybe and the other guy has quite a bit more than that.

Joshycoin said he'd probably be willing to do it for a week.

As for a block explorer... I have a couple of people that have set up explorers for me in the past that I can ask. I mentioned them to frameLAlife in the early stages of discussing what we could do to revive OctoCoin. Both of these people usually set up block explorers for free. One pays for his time through ad revenue and the other relies on donations. I'm not sure that either would be willing to create one for a short-term project without some sort of payment up front.

Of course, there may be some who want to stick to the old OctoCoin, so having a block explorer may not be too much of a short-term prospect if people were still mining and trying to keep OctoCoin alive after most of us have moved on to OctoParty... I will send some emails out today and see if either of them are interested... We may need to raise a small amount of funds to actually make an explorer happen.

As for block chain security... There has been a small amount of hash on OctoCoin keeping the chain moving. At times it has been around 200mh/s, but usually much less. If anyone wants to mine (as I said in an earlier post) the only active pool I know of is at lifeforce.info. There has been some hash coming in from elsewhere at times, whether it is another pool or people solo mining, I'm not sure.

I threw a few mh/s on lifeforce just to keep the chain moving last week and have kept it there, for the most part, since then. If anyone knows of any other pools operating, post them in the thread. If you have some spare hash to throw at the lifeforce pool (or solo), you can pick up a few more 888's to burn for OctoParty and help keep the chain secure until we get the burn over with.

When will the block explorer is coming back.

One potential flaw... in the absence of a block explorer I wasn't able to verify whether the send comment is just stored locally or whether it is actually visible somehow in a block explorer.  I think it's possibly the former but will keep digging.

Burning in March is a nice idea in terms of the history of Octo, but... that means needing to secure the blockchain with hashpower until then which is a tall order.  With all the Scrypt ASICs around it would be very hard to secure against a determined and organised attack.  However, in reality the only possible benefit in anybody doing so would be for spite and to stop a switch to CP happening or just for the fun of it.  There's not really any financial gain in doing so.  I can only really see bholzer being motivated enough to do that out of sheer bloody mindedness.

At the moment we don't really have much to lose.  A working blockexplorer is essential to any plan and as much hashing power as we can raise.  I only have 17MH/s of scrypt, happy to add that to a pool (Lifeforce?) for a week or so whenever we're ready and depending on rental prices could maybe chip in with some rented hash too.

I must admit I haven't really read up on the CP side of things and don't have time today but will do. I had a *very* quick look at the code for vennd in GitHub, it does look like it could provide an elegant way of automating the payout for burn process but it doesn't do anything that can't be done manually with email, a couple of spreadsheets and a working block explorer.  Assuming it's as easy to obtain a CP address as it is with a conventional wallet, people participating in the burn could just send their CP address as the message with their remittance to the burn address.