Topic: [ANN] Bancor | Protocol for Smart-tokens, solving the liquidity problem - page 453. (Read 375825 times)
May 18, 2017, 01:14:49 PM
Do we have a clue what the per token ICO price will be? How many Bancor Tokens per Eth?
May 18, 2017, 10:23:26 AM
when tokens are traded on the exchange relative to BTC, understandable pricing mechanism. is the flagship and the others were compared. Here, we propose the creation of crosscourse. Prices will be based on courses that are on the exchanges? If so , then not all tokens are liquid and the prices of some are very different in the exchanges, will average?
The network will only work with tokens which are received by smart contracts on everyone, crosscourse to zec, litecoin, Dash will not be used? what will happen to the tokens of other platforms different from etherium?
The network will only work with tokens which are received by smart contracts on everyone, crosscourse to zec, litecoin, Dash will not be used? what will happen to the tokens of other platforms different from etherium?
If I understand you're question correctly, you're asking how the inevitable price differences between smart tokens internal prices & their prices on exchanges.
The answer is the same as the solution to price differences between exchanges: arbitrage bots. When there is profit to be made by a difference in price, these bots automatically come and make trades until they've evened out the prices (and so it is no longer profitable).
To be clear: smart tokens' contracts can buy/sell themselves. No second party needed. That is how every single currency on the network can be fully liquid from day one.
Yeah, right, but since you are going to run a fractional reserve, actual liquidity is going to limited by initial supply. For example, at 20% reserve ratio change in supply by a factor of 2 in either direction will change the price by a factor of 4. This will limit the amount of tokens we will actually be able to buy or sell at reasonable price. Liquidity would be really infinite in two cases: either the initial supply is very large; or reserve ratio is close to 1.
Actually, the supply can be (and for most smart tokens, we think it will be) much smaller than 20%. The reason that smart tokens can still be liquid with tiny reserves is that, when you buy/sell a smart token (or its reserve tokens) the price is calculated as if you sold an infinitely large amount of micro transactions that equal the same total amount. For every micro transaction you do, the price for the next goes up (as with every supply/demand system). So if supply were to grow smaller, the price of each smart token would decrease proportionally. The token would stay liquid, it would just decrease in value.
If demand were such that the price is no longer 'reasonable' to enough people, demand would go down and said price would stop rising (or fall, if demand went low enough that there are now more people selling than buying). In other words, the price of a smart token is kept reasonable by the market, like any other freely traded commodity.
A price of your token is a power law of its supply relative to initial supply. You need to have a fairly large initial supply if you don't want the price to raise/drop by crazy amount after each trade, unless your reserve ration is close to 1.
This is true, a deeper market depth (which is a main function of a reserve currency in this type of smart token) makes for less volatility. The market depth on any given exchange is usually <1%, so a 20% market depth can be considered quite large.
I am sorry, but you are comparing apples and herrings here.
You can't have 5 BANCOR issued initially, which is reserved by 1 ETH. If you do this, your token will behave as any illiquid token, a price will be a random number, which varies significantly with every trade of a fraction of ETH. If you run at low reserve ratio, such as 20%, you need to have a huge initial supply, which is much larger than projected daily volume.
The ratio between Token market cap and Reserve have to always stay the same, so by dropping just 1 ETH in 5 to 1 contract you are increasing market cap by 2 and change the price for one Token from 1:1 to 1.74:1 which is the whole 74% price increase, consider that you just dropped a liquidity bomb that changed Token market cap from 5 ETH to 10 ETH, what would have happened to an exchange if you tried to execute order of that magnitude.
May 18, 2017, 07:22:58 AM
when tokens are traded on the exchange relative to BTC, understandable pricing mechanism. is the flagship and the others were compared. Here, we propose the creation of crosscourse. Prices will be based on courses that are on the exchanges? If so , then not all tokens are liquid and the prices of some are very different in the exchanges, will average?
The network will only work with tokens which are received by smart contracts on everyone, crosscourse to zec, litecoin, Dash will not be used? what will happen to the tokens of other platforms different from etherium?
The network will only work with tokens which are received by smart contracts on everyone, crosscourse to zec, litecoin, Dash will not be used? what will happen to the tokens of other platforms different from etherium?
If I understand you're question correctly, you're asking how the inevitable price differences between smart tokens internal prices & their prices on exchanges.
The answer is the same as the solution to price differences between exchanges: arbitrage bots. When there is profit to be made by a difference in price, these bots automatically come and make trades until they've evened out the prices (and so it is no longer profitable).
To be clear: smart tokens' contracts can buy/sell themselves. No second party needed. That is how every single currency on the network can be fully liquid from day one.
Yeah, right, but since you are going to run a fractional reserve, actual liquidity is going to limited by initial supply. For example, at 20% reserve ratio change in supply by a factor of 2 in either direction will change the price by a factor of 4. This will limit the amount of tokens we will actually be able to buy or sell at reasonable price. Liquidity would be really infinite in two cases: either the initial supply is very large; or reserve ratio is close to 1.
Actually, the supply can be (and for most smart tokens, we think it will be) much smaller than 20%. The reason that smart tokens can still be liquid with tiny reserves is that, when you buy/sell a smart token (or its reserve tokens) the price is calculated as if you sold an infinitely large amount of micro transactions that equal the same total amount. For every micro transaction you do, the price for the next goes up (as with every supply/demand system). So if supply were to grow smaller, the price of each smart token would decrease proportionally. The token would stay liquid, it would just decrease in value.
If demand were such that the price is no longer 'reasonable' to enough people, demand would go down and said price would stop rising (or fall, if demand went low enough that there are now more people selling than buying). In other words, the price of a smart token is kept reasonable by the market, like any other freely traded commodity.
A price of your token is a power law of its supply relative to initial supply. You need to have a fairly large initial supply if you don't want the price to raise/drop by crazy amount after each trade, unless your reserve ration is close to 1.
This is true, a deeper market depth (which is a main function of a reserve currency in this type of smart token) makes for less volatility. The market depth on any given exchange is usually <1%, so a 20% market depth can be considered quite large.
I am sorry, but you are comparing apples and herrings here.
You can't have 5 BANCOR issued initially, which is reserved by 1 ETH. If you do this, your token will behave as any illiquid token, a price will be a random number, which varies significantly with every trade of a fraction of ETH. If you run at low reserve ratio, such as 20%, you need to have a huge initial supply, which is much larger than projected daily volume.
May 18, 2017, 07:08:33 AM
she's the reason why you idiots will raise a shit load of money.
okay, you are not "idiots" but Galia will certainly help bring in the bacon.
That's .... impressive
Waiting for more details about ICO cap and other information. This project is worth to spend time researching all the details and decide how much to invest.
May 18, 2017, 05:38:40 AM
What sort of money are people keen to put towards such a Project ?
im guessing this ranges quite a bit
depends on the amount of money each holds, i can say im going to transfer 15% of my eth to this ICO.. i believe ICO's will bring the most rise in the coming years May 18, 2017, 04:48:43 AM
What sort of money are people keen to put towards such a Project ?
I can not speak for others but I made a very-very good run on ETH in recent months (over 500%) and Bancor is my next target. I plan on shifting a certain % of that but not more than a thousand ETH.
May 18, 2017, 04:14:52 AM
she's the reason why you idiots will raise a shit load of money.
okay, you are not "idiots" but Galia will certainly help bring in the bacon.
May 18, 2017, 04:09:24 AM
They were going to release information about min and max cap of the project did they release that info already/?
Announcement on that here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19042838
May 18, 2017, 04:08:31 AM
Bancor is nothing more than a merger of 2 already existing platforms. First is the ability to seamlessly swap one token for another. This is what shapeshift does and it does it very well. Second you will have the ability to create any tokens you want with ease. This is what the waves platform does. Waves platform is also a dex where the created tokens can be traded. Sorry but Bancor sounds like a loser to me
First: the diff between Bancor and everything else that enables a swapping of tokens is that Bancor allows for a swapping of tokens WITHOUT needing to find a counterparty. This means that even small market-cap currencies with low trading volumes (think of the countless community/complimentary/business-based currencies for example) is always completely liquid.
Second: same as first. Yes Waves enables trade, but its still P2P and requires a counterparty.
---
Additionally, there's the heretofore unheard of use cases like creating Token Baskets (like decentralized ETFs), and creating a currency that is minted/destroyed constantly based on demand;
May 18, 2017, 04:04:38 AM
when tokens are traded on the exchange relative to BTC, understandable pricing mechanism. is the flagship and the others were compared. Here, we propose the creation of crosscourse. Prices will be based on courses that are on the exchanges? If so , then not all tokens are liquid and the prices of some are very different in the exchanges, will average?
The network will only work with tokens which are received by smart contracts on everyone, crosscourse to zec, litecoin, Dash will not be used? what will happen to the tokens of other platforms different from etherium?
The network will only work with tokens which are received by smart contracts on everyone, crosscourse to zec, litecoin, Dash will not be used? what will happen to the tokens of other platforms different from etherium?
If I understand you're question correctly, you're asking how the inevitable price differences between smart tokens internal prices & their prices on exchanges.
The answer is the same as the solution to price differences between exchanges: arbitrage bots. When there is profit to be made by a difference in price, these bots automatically come and make trades until they've evened out the prices (and so it is no longer profitable).
To be clear: smart tokens' contracts can buy/sell themselves. No second party needed. That is how every single currency on the network can be fully liquid from day one.
Yeah, right, but since you are going to run a fractional reserve, actual liquidity is going to limited by initial supply. For example, at 20% reserve ratio change in supply by a factor of 2 in either direction will change the price by a factor of 4. This will limit the amount of tokens we will actually be able to buy or sell at reasonable price. Liquidity would be really infinite in two cases: either the initial supply is very large; or reserve ratio is close to 1.
Actually, the supply can be (and for most smart tokens, we think it will be) much smaller than 20%. The reason that smart tokens can still be liquid with tiny reserves is that, when you buy/sell a smart token (or its reserve tokens) the price is calculated as if you sold an infinitely large amount of micro transactions that equal the same total amount. For every micro transaction you do, the price for the next goes up (as with every supply/demand system). So if supply were to grow smaller, the price of each smart token would decrease proportionally. The token would stay liquid, it would just decrease in value.
If demand were such that the price is no longer 'reasonable' to enough people, demand would go down and said price would stop rising (or fall, if demand went low enough that there are now more people selling than buying). In other words, the price of a smart token is kept reasonable by the market, like any other freely traded commodity.
A price of your token is a power law of its supply relative to initial supply. You need to have a fairly large initial supply if you don't want the price to raise/drop by crazy amount after each trade, unless your reserve ration is close to 1.
This is true, a deeper market depth (which is a main function of a reserve currency in this type of smart token) makes for less volatility. The market depth on any given exchange is usually <1%, so a 20% market depth can be considered quite large.
May 18, 2017, 04:02:53 AM
I am seriously considering investing in Bancor, but I have this nagging question in my head that hasn't been answered yet:
How is Bancor's token any different than any other token? Are the following statements accurate:
1. You buy it with another ERC20 token. Now you have Bancor token.
2. You sell Bancor, use it or hodl.
3. Bancor's price goes up or down based on the buy and sell ratio of Bancor.
Bancor presumably answers the liquidity issue, but what makes Bancor liquid? Isn't it the same as what makes any token liquid, buys and sells?
Not fudding at all, I want to invest! Please help me understand.
How is Bancor's token any different than any other token? Are the following statements accurate:
1. You buy it with another ERC20 token. Now you have Bancor token.
2. You sell Bancor, use it or hodl.
3. Bancor's price goes up or down based on the buy and sell ratio of Bancor.
Bancor presumably answers the liquidity issue, but what makes Bancor liquid? Isn't it the same as what makes any token liquid, buys and sells?
Not fudding at all, I want to invest! Please help me understand.
So the BANCOR token will be the first of the smart tokens. What makes it liquid is the exact same thing that makes every other smart token liquid: namely that when you are buying/selling smart tokens to the smart tokens' contract, the contract itself is the entity that is selling/buying.
Up until Bancor, the only way to sell is if you can find a buyer who wants to buy what you're selling at the price you're selling it. With the Bancor protocol, the smart tokens' contract is always available to buy from and sell to.
But is it actually buying my token or am I just trading my token for a Bancor token? Bancor tokens will have to be liquid themselves in order for me to buy/sell them. I'm having a problem identifying the difference unless I'm stuck with a token that has absolutely no liquidity itself in which case how does it help Bancor's token? I'm not seeing how this is any better than trading on an exchange and choosing any token/coin I want.
They will hold the reserve in ETH to make us able to buy or sell bancor. It does not need to be listed on any exchange for this.
I'm not sure I understand the difference between buying a token with another token and trading a token for another token. If you were to buy BANCOR from the smart contract, you would send your ETH to the smart contract (which would be added to its reserve) and the smart contract would mint new BANCOR tokens (at the price it calculated at time of trade) and send them to you.
Like I said, Bancor tokens are liquid the same way every other smart token is liquid. The smart tokens' contract is the thing you are trading with (as opposed to exchanges where you have to be matched with another party to make a trade). That is why it is always liquid.
The biggest reason that Bancor is better than exchanges is that EVERY conceivable currency in the world, even small ones like community currencies and loyalty points and in-game currencies, will be fully liquid. Exchanges only make currencies with high trading volumes liquid. With Bancor, the long-tail of currencies can be created (alike to how youtube enabled the long tail of videos, how Instagram enabled the long tail of photography, etc.).
There's also the fact that trading on Bancor will be cheaper than on exchanges (no/low fees), that you can create smart tokens that serve as token baskets (kind of like ETFs), and that it is decentralized and therefore cannot be DDoS'd or otherwise easily attacked.
I can see some advantages to that (which is why I'm interested in the first place). However, I don't see this as an alternative to exchanges. If I trade one token for another on an exchange I now have the new token. If I trade one token for Bancor I now have Bancor Tokens. I don't own the tokens inside Bancor outright. I have an ETF basically as you say. An ETF Token, which, is cool and maybe that's really all it is when all is said and done and all the fancy math is complete
Have you read the whitepaper yet? It explains that the type of contract that is issuing the BANCOR smart tokens is just ONE use-case of Bancor.
Bancor protocol can be used to:
- Make it possible to create a smart contact that continuously & instantly issues/liquidates (mints/destroys) its currency according to demand. Like the BANCOR smart token contract, and countless possible community/company/project based currencies. Or tokens to be used to buy a specific thing, with the price increasing as demand does (like tickets to a show, or a freelancer's personal currency that goes up as demand does).
- Make it possible exchange ANY currency for ANY other currency on the bancor, instantly, even if said currencies have such small trading volumes that you'd usually have trouble finding a buyer/seller (thereby enabling an explosion of small-market-cap cryptocurrencies alike to how Youtube enabled an explosion of video content). These are the Token Changer smart tokens. They can also take a fee which is added to their reserves (thereby increasing market depth and decreasing volatility for higher-volume trades) that increases the value of the Token Changer smart token itself (so that owning one of these is kind of like owning a share in a mini-exchange).
- Make it possible to create a smart token that holds multiple other tokens in reserves at pre-set CRRs (so that it is always re-balancing it's holdings to keep the each reserve token's value at the % of total smart token value you desire). This is the ETF use case. These can be combined with Token Changers.
That's just a few of the cooler use cases. There's more in our whitepaper, our upcoming FAQ, and the future's store of innovative use case ideas no one has had yet (alike to how Bancor is an innovative use case of Ethereum).
- explain about exchanges between tokens, how the BANCOR smart token type is just one type (the type that creates a new currency)
May 18, 2017, 03:08:37 AM
Just please, do not fuck up the ICO with capping it too greedely. I agree with people saying 6-12 million is acceptable price range. You will see, that if you set it insanely high like 20 million or more (or make it uncapped) you will not gather even half of that and you will not create decent community helping you promote your project, which is priceless.
Yeah thats true, 6-12 million is acceptable, I don't want them to push it too high or worse leave it uncapped. Nevertheless I have high hopes for this coin. It's one of those I'm keeping a strong watch on, and participating in its bounties
I actually fear that it might not be enough. This looks like a mega project that is likely to be a major game changer. If executed well, it has the potential of solving a lot of trading / liquidity problems. I, for one, am very likely to use it for my personal gain in the hope that it will help me trade out of my past endeavors. In short, I'm all-in and I don't care much for Cap.
AC
PS - to be clear, when I say that i'm all-in, I mean big time as I really want to see them make it fly!
I second that, but lets not forget that pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered! It is a brilliant project, at the right time and with the right team (I saw them in Amsterdam recently) so I quite comfortable backing them. I am, however, personally concern with capping it because I've already missed two ICO and I don't want to miss this one - projects/ICOs today are concluded in a matter of hrs and sometime in a matter of mins, and this one is very likely to behave exactly like that if they'll cap it!
May 18, 2017, 02:57:27 AM
What sort of money are people keen to put towards such a Project ?
May 18, 2017, 02:21:42 AM
Just please, do not fuck up the ICO with capping it too greedely. I agree with people saying 6-12 million is acceptable price range. You will see, that if you set it insanely high like 20 million or more (or make it uncapped) you will not gather even half of that and you will not create decent community helping you promote your project, which is priceless.
Yeah thats true, 6-12 million is acceptable, I don't want them to push it too high or worse leave it uncapped. Nevertheless I have high hopes for this coin. It's one of those I'm keeping a strong watch on, and participating in its bounties
I actually fear that it might not be enough. This looks like a mega project that is likely to be a major game changer. If executed well, it has the potential of solving a lot of trading / liquidity problems. I, for one, am very likely to use it for my personal gain in the hope that it will help me trade out of my past endeavors. In short, I'm all-in and I don't care much for Cap.
AC
PS - to be clear, when I say that i'm all-in, I mean big time as I really want to see them make it fly!
May 18, 2017, 02:15:59 AM
They were going to release information about min and max cap of the project did they release that info already/?
May 18, 2017, 02:08:31 AM
Just don't make the ICO capped too high.
May 18, 2017, 02:06:47 AM
i joined the social media bounty. waiting to see its success by the time. i think everybody in the community knows about Bancor.
Bancor is most awaiting project so that I also will so agree with you this will be huge because it's just ready to get launch. This is really interesting thing in crypto world that is the reason everyone is promoting this project for get some benefit so good luck to all community.
May 18, 2017, 01:53:43 AM
I am seriously considering investing in Bancor, but I have this nagging question in my head that hasn't been answered yet:
How is Bancor's token any different than any other token? Are the following statements accurate:
1. You buy it with another ERC20 token. Now you have Bancor token.
2. You sell Bancor, use it or hodl.
3. Bancor's price goes up or down based on the buy and sell ratio of Bancor.
Bancor presumably answers the liquidity issue, but what makes Bancor liquid? Isn't it the same as what makes any token liquid, buys and sells?
Not fudding at all, I want to invest! Please help me understand.
How is Bancor's token any different than any other token? Are the following statements accurate:
1. You buy it with another ERC20 token. Now you have Bancor token.
2. You sell Bancor, use it or hodl.
3. Bancor's price goes up or down based on the buy and sell ratio of Bancor.
Bancor presumably answers the liquidity issue, but what makes Bancor liquid? Isn't it the same as what makes any token liquid, buys and sells?
Not fudding at all, I want to invest! Please help me understand.
So the BANCOR token will be the first of the smart tokens. What makes it liquid is the exact same thing that makes every other smart token liquid: namely that when you are buying/selling smart tokens to the smart tokens' contract, the contract itself is the entity that is selling/buying.
Up until Bancor, the only way to sell is if you can find a buyer who wants to buy what you're selling at the price you're selling it. With the Bancor protocol, the smart tokens' contract is always available to buy from and sell to.
But is it actually buying my token or am I just trading my token for a Bancor token? Bancor tokens will have to be liquid themselves in order for me to buy/sell them. I'm having a problem identifying the difference unless I'm stuck with a token that has absolutely no liquidity itself in which case how does it help Bancor's token? I'm not seeing how this is any better than trading on an exchange and choosing any token/coin I want.
They will hold the reserve in ETH to make us able to buy or sell bancor. It does not need to be listed on any exchange for this.
I'm not sure I understand the difference between buying a token with another token and trading a token for another token. If you were to buy BANCOR from the smart contract, you would send your ETH to the smart contract (which would be added to its reserve) and the smart contract would mint new BANCOR tokens (at the price it calculated at time of trade) and send them to you.
Like I said, Bancor tokens are liquid the same way every other smart token is liquid. The smart tokens' contract is the thing you are trading with (as opposed to exchanges where you have to be matched with another party to make a trade). That is why it is always liquid.
The biggest reason that Bancor is better than exchanges is that EVERY conceivable currency in the world, even small ones like community currencies and loyalty points and in-game currencies, will be fully liquid. Exchanges only make currencies with high trading volumes liquid. With Bancor, the long-tail of currencies can be created (alike to how youtube enabled the long tail of videos, how Instagram enabled the long tail of photography, etc.).
There's also the fact that trading on Bancor will be cheaper than on exchanges (no/low fees), that you can create smart tokens that serve as token baskets (kind of like ETFs), and that it is decentralized and therefore cannot be DDoS'd or otherwise easily attacked.
I can see some advantages to that (which is why I'm interested in the first place). However, I don't see this as an alternative to exchanges. If I trade one token for another on an exchange I now have the new token. If I trade one token for Bancor I now have Bancor Tokens. I don't own the tokens inside Bancor outright. I have an ETF basically as you say. An ETF Token, which, is cool and maybe that's really all it is when all is said and done and all the fancy math is complete
if you trade for a token that is a smart token you will have the token not bancor, if token A is a smart token and token B is a smart token if you buy them you have them not bancor... Also if you trade any of them to a token in a reserve you will have the token. for example if you put GNT in a reserve and you buy GNT you will have it... the only case where you wouldnt have the real currency is when its a tokenized version of it like if somoene were to create a token for BTC you would have a BTC token..
the main key issue in the exchange will be the issue of pricing, if the smart contract will at any time make the tokens on the exchange for a client and have a question. what is the price of this exchange and is it profitable to change at the moment, liquidity in this case will be supported, but at what cost?
May 17, 2017, 07:44:25 PM
i joined the social media bounty. waiting to see its success by the time. i think everybody in the community knows about Bancor.
May 17, 2017, 06:49:59 PM
Bancor is the super star project in 2017, let us see if this happens.
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