Topic: [ANN] BetKing.io ICO - Bitcoin Gambling website - 581.4 BTC raised so far - page 8. (Read 29776 times)

This sounds like a pretty good way to start. At least we'll know where the dividends are ending up and transfer should be quick and manageable for a large number of investors. If we can buy/sell direct on site then should be easy o offer a DRIP style re-investment to buy back in?

Also - looks like there's been quite a lot of action recently as well on BetKing. Even though it's divested (as mentioned) and the Max Profit was down to ~30BTC, it's still attracting the biggest players:

Everyone has already been forcibly divested.

If you're asking about the shares, I think the situation is that you will be able to sell your shares so long as you can find someone willing to buy them from you.

are u able to divest ?

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

To further clarify:

You sell 30% of the company (BK) to investors for 2000 BTC (supposing again that the ICO sells out)
You (DN) keep 70% of the company, and 2000 BTC.

So BK has no BTC, DN has 70% of the shares and 2k BTC, and the investors have 30% of the shares.

Do I have it right so far?

If so, let's proceed. I'm guessing here, but is this how it works?

* DN gives BK an interest-free loan of 2k BTC to use as its bankroll.

* BK pays its expenses out of the 2k bankroll. The bankroll grows and shrinks as players bet.

* Each 3 months (or however often dividends end up being paid), you check whether the bankroll is over 2k or not.

* If it is, you pay out the excess to shareholders. 30% to the public investors, 70% to DN.

* If it isn't, you pay no dividends for that period and wait for the bankroll to grow back over 2k before paying anything out.

* If BK is ever sold to a new owner, it pays back the 2k BTC loan to DN. If the bankroll is less than 2k at the time of sale, the shortfall is made up from the sale price so that DN's loan is repaid in full.

* After repaying the loan, the money left over from the sale is paid out to the shareholders. 30% to the public, 70% to DN.

I don't think I've seen you refer to the 2k in BTC's bankroll as a loan from DN to BK, but I don't see what else it could be. It doesn't belong to BK. It belongs to DN, who sold 30% of the company in exchange for 2k BTC. Is it a loan? Is it interest-free?

No, I don't think so. In Dean's first example:


There was 300 profit, 25 expenses, so 275 net profit.

The investors get 82.5 whereas 30% of the gross profit would be 90, so they are paying 7.5 BTC towards the expenses.
Dean gets 192.5 whereas 70% of the gross profit would be 210, so he is paying 17.5 BTC towards the expenses.

In other words the investors pay 30% of the expenses and Dean pays 70% of the expenses.

Well, not quite...it's a simple line swap in terms of a P&L statement, but if your expenses were ~30% of your revenues, then investors would have zero incentive to invest.

It's only unusual if you are thinking in terms of "investing" in dice bankrolls. Which is not the norm and not really investing.

This is how investing in businesses usually works.

Note that you would not only be getting a share of profit generated by dice but all future products

It is not the usual practice, but given how small the costs are compared to everything else, it doesn't really make much of a difference

Acquisition of damn 2 kilobitcoins by ICO scam artist is nothing new to the town, is a risk-readjustment of the net capital: first he boasts of being trustworthy in public with funds he gets from da game, second he turns the tides and spits into ur face. That's normal for that kind of gambling business management.

That's correct yes.

Right, but all working capital is coming from investors?

The company is paying them all. From the working capital we raise during the ICO

So investors are paying all expenses out of their 30%?

OK so what I mean by this is:

Assume the ICO meets the target of 2000 Bitcoin raised as investment.

The business would have 2000 Bitcoin capital. There are no other funds from me, other investors or any type of private bankroll option.

At first the main product would still be dice.

I would set the max payout on dice 20 Bitcoin (this could change) as if there were a 2000 Bitcoin dice bankroll with 1% kelly as the risk setting.

If someone lost 1 Bitcoin playing dice we would have 2001 Bitcoin in the company.

If someone won 1 Bitcoin playing dice we would have 1999 Bitcoin in the company.

I guess the confusion is that I have said bankroll, capital and investment when we should be thinking of it as capital right?

Expenses come out of this capital too.

So lets have two examples to see what dividends would be after three months under different circumstances. Note these numbers are only for example
and are under assumption we add no new games/products in first 3 months to keep it easier to understand.

1)
We start with 2000 Bitcoin from the ICO.
In 3 months players lose 300 Bitcoin playing dice.
We paid 5 Bitcoin as fixed expenses (server, cloudflare etc).
We spent 10 Bitcoin on some banner ads.
We spent 10 Bitcoin on a contract developer.

After the 3 months we have 2000+300-5-10-10=2275.
275 profit.

So the investors from the ICO would get a dividend share of 82.5 (30% of 275) paid into their BetKing account.
I would be paid 192.5 (70%)

The business would have 2000 Bitcoin left in it. The dice betting limits would remain the same.


2)
We start with 2000 Bitcoin from the ICO.
In 3 months players win 100 Bitcoin playing dice.
We paid 5 Bitcoin as fixed expenses (server, cloudflare etc).
We spent 10 Bitcoin on some banner ads.
We spent 10 Bitcoin on a contract developer.

After the 3 months we have 2000-100-5-10-10=1875.
-125 profit.

So there are no dividends to be paid as there was no profit in this time.

The business would have 1875 Bitcoin left in it. The dice betting limits would be lowered.

Does that clear things up?

Feel free to ask any other questions.

Let me clear this up in next post. Maybe I have written it in too confusing a way or crossed terms here.....

Sorry Dean, but I still don't think this is clear. Originally you said that profits from the dice game would be paid as dividends to shareholders:


but now you're saying that profits from the dice game will be added to the bankroll (ie. your 2k BTC):


Are you saying that the public's 30% share of the profits are paid out and your 70% share of the profits stay in the bankroll? Or how can I understand both statements at the same time?

It's hard to decide whether to invest with such confusing and apparently conflicting statements from you.

I've explained this already but here goes.

The full amount raised will be used for bankroll. 2000 coins in the bankroll if target is met. 1-2x kelly seems reasonable for a 20-40 Bitcoin max bet.

When we pay for anything else like marketing, server etc that comes out of the bankroll. Any profit/loss on dice game gets added/subtracted from bankroll.

There isn't a clear marketing/dev plan yet as it depends on how much is raised and what we decide to prioritise first.

I said mine yes, in reference to RichGangs scam accusations because I could have legitimately listed the ICO as me taking 2000 Bitcoin, paying myself all of it for the troubles and work so far and then everyone else gets dividends off an already successful business.
However I stated that it would be used as capital instead in the company, of which I own 70% of.