Topic: [ANN] Bisq - Exchange, Decentralized. - page 4. (Read 2543 times)

Have you spoken to a real lawyer about the implications? And probably more then one because one that is well versed in EU law probably has no clue about US law.
Going with the theory that if you cover the EU + US you can probably be covered for most places. I don't know squat about implications of doing what you do, but I can see some overzealous enforcement person trying to make a name for themselves trying to cause trouble. Sad, but true.

-Dave

Honestly we haven't talked extensively about this, yet, still we feel the pressure, no doubt.
Brief references to the possibility of choosing an alternative to github have been made, and if you notice how, under DAO > Governance, all proposals links do not point straight to github, but rather to a translation url that redirects to the correct issues on github thereafter, this was a possibility that had been put in code since the start.

More extensive discussion was entertained regarding the specifics of the FinCEN legislation, where Bisq, as a platform which doesn't get involved in the trades directly, not like TornadoCash (I reckon), it cannot really be considered a middleman acting as financial entity. The security deposit, and the rest of the trade protocol, is only "led" by the application, yet all the funds move exclusively between the trading peers, no middle step involved where Bisq manages the funds in any way.

The recent tornado cash issue triggered me to think about the worst. Things like the US government sanctioning Bisq.network, having profiles of developers in GitHub deleted and probably arresting some of the developers who may not be anonymous (we all know how crazy those Government Motherf*ckers can be)

Does Bisq have a plan to make sure that their operation remains smooth even after being sanctioned (In case it happens)?
Perhaps opting for decentralized alternatives to github?

Full disclosure:


I met w000000t on Bisq's IRC channel, https://bisq.chat.

Awesome! I'm pasting the source here so it can be found easily for anyone to verify.

Just posted a link to my previous post in offtopic at bisq.chat

Could you verify that it's you by e.g. sending a screenshot of your post from w000000t's profile in https://bisq.chat/ and writing that that's you? Maybe simply in Random/Off-Topic channel.

Hello people
this is w000000t from the Bisq support team, I was notified there was some trolling going on in this thread so I decided I finally needed to get an account on THE forum, and here I am. I reckon the trolling has been cleaned already, but I suppose, since I'm here... AMA if you want.
I know more than the average, being a support agent and all, but not everything. There is actually a lot to learn about Bisq, and I'm not done so myself.

Already did that  the email address I'm using here on the forum is not related to my person itself so even if it get published somewhere, I don't really care about Thanks for pointing out

Just as a probably helpful information:

Bitcointalk has been hacked several times, where various data was obtained by hackers, such like also E-Mail Addresses, which are normally hidden from public (for a good reason). Because in case a hacker obtains your mail address and your real name or can tie your Bitcointalk account (via Mail) to your real-life identity, you might be in danger because such data is sold on the Darknet frequently (see also Ledger's big hack).
Unfortunately, hackers are acting very aggressively.

So, I can recommend using a different, pseudonymous mail address for your Bitcointalk Account and for Crypto in general.
It's just a recommendation but I assume many people will agree here.  

I would probably recommend getting your first Bitcoin (for Bisq security deposits) through Lightning on Robosats.
I've done a short, unsponsored review about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/review-robosats-bitcoin-lightning-on-off-ramp-no-kyc-p2p-tor-5405549

Unfortunately, also Robosats requires a security deposit, but obviously much lower (as you're buying less BTC) and pretty quick & cheap through the use of Lightning. I just checked and you would need around 1£ in collateral (or less) to buy roughly 20£ of BTC. I'm sure you can find someone who gifts you that amount (worst case message me) or lends a few thousand sats without collateral.

Otherwise, if you have another crypto as collateral, you can also find people who give you a Bitcoin loan in the lending section.

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Another way to get KYC-free sats is to buy hashpower on a hashpower marketplace like NiceHash. Last I checked, you could just rent a miner for a few hours, pay for it with fiat and get mining rewards on an address you like.

maybe because he simply has the better reputation than you and therefore enjoys certain privileges ? i am just guessing

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I want to add and emphasize that hopefully with your last sentence / warning you meant the troll 16xypjnxlrew, and not me :-) 

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

That will certainly be willi9974 from the german part of this forum.

I tried Paxful some days ago. My first trade was a SCAM, I lost <20 EUR because the seller never paid the agreed amount. The other trade was success, I have purchased abt 10 EUR in Bitcoin but the sad story is --> I cannot send the small mBTC amount to my personal wallet because Paxful asks me to perform KYC. Man, that really sucks! BTW: The reason I changed my email address here on forum was because initially I didn't know if this forum is good or bad and if I would stay here so I used a one-time disposal email address. After I registered and realized that this forum is very frequently visited with lot of content and good replies from many pros I changed it to my correct email address. Thanks for the hint with escrow service. There is someone in here who is doing escrow service, I also got referred to him in one of my very first posts here. Have to search for it (him). I will try that, too ...

thank you so much for reply.

Bisq is very good for trading Bitcoin, but it's not so great when you want to buy your first Bitcoin because you need to send BTC security deposit before making a purchase.
Alternative options you could try using is LocalCryptos and find people who want to trade Paypal for Bitcoin.
There are a lot more services you could find on Bestchange website, but they are all custodial and they can ask you for kyc at any time.

I would suggest using some of the trusted escrows in forum that would help you making a purchase of Bitcoin with Paypal.
Paying a small fee will make sure nobody is scammed, especially with reversible payment options like Paypal is involved.
I see your email was recently changed, so that may be one of the the reasons nobody responded in your topic so far.

Hello everybody. I am 'kinda' new here and looking for a way to purchase BTC on a decentralized way. I do NOT want to register on any known centralized exchange and process KYC procedure for the reasons mentioned on that link. I was referred to this great piece of P2P software called Bisq unfortunately I still struggle at the first hurdle --> How do buy the suggested first 0.002 BTC (two millibitcoins) to start? The FAQ link is not really a help for me. I live in Germany and there is no bitcoin/ATM nearby where I could purchase a small amount by cash without KYC. I already posted in the particular subforum marketplace where I am looking for someone to buy a small amount via Paypal Friends/Family but without luck yet. In case I get to my first 0.002 BTC I would really like to download, install and use Bisq. Looking forward to any assistance, please reply either via PM or on my marketplace forum post. Thanks!

Not sure if any of you had noticed, but the Bisq price server was having some issues this week.  It looks like one of the price providers wasn't giving any volume, which affected the pricing displayed on Bisq.  Many were in the support room on bisq.chat complaining that the XMR pricing was way off.

Emzy opened an issue about it on Github which explains more: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq-pricenode/issues/10

Yesterday the price node was updated: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/pull/6229#issue-1253270497
Here's the new chart: https://bisq.wiki/Bisq_Price_Indices#Asset_Table

More trading pairs on centralized exchanges, staking, futures, borrow/lend and more.

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What scam attempts are you referring to? And you're support a flag accusing me of a scam that doesn't exist? Can't you see that I'm a victim? Do you support those who abuse their authority? Did you carefully understand this situation, or did you read 2 words and immediately clicked? You should have pressed the "Oppose" button.

That's a pretty stupid statement. Satoshi could send an email to Adam Back tomorrow, negotiate a P2P trade with him for 1 million BTC, at a price that satoshi wants and Back can pay; they will meet and make the trade P2P. No problem. He could also do the same with an untrusted party through Bisq. One million BTC would be pretty high volume, and there's no technical reason Bisq can't do that or would do it worse than a centralized exchange. Remember Bitcoin transactions don't care about amounts; those are just numbers. Everything that works with small amounts (multisig contracts in Bisq, for example) also works the same with large amounts.

Besides the fact that your first statement ('P2P trading can't have as much volume as a centralized exchange') has nothing to do with your second one (something about hiding how much you own):
There are very legitimate reasons for not wanting everyone to know how much you own. For instance, not wanting to be attacked, killed and robbed.

Besides, P2P trading is not only about minimizing the amount of people that know how much you own. Here's an excerpt of things that decentralized P2P exchanges like Bisq generally do better than centralized ones.

• No KYC required. Read: [Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless]. Your documents can be stolen or 'lost' and used in actual crimes.
  
• Less trust required. Centralized exchanges can and do freeze funds, so every time you deposit money you cannot know if it will be credited to your account or deemed 'illicit' (even though you did nothing wrong) and just stolen from you. You also don't need to trust them to keep your KYC documents safe.
  
• It is decentralized. This means a variety of things, but some of them: [1] Censorship-resistant - governments or other powerful entities can't just shut it down. [2] No central point of failure (hacking attack / hostile company takeover etc.). [3] No business behind it that may be interested in exit-scamming their users. List goes on...
  
• No exit scam. As just alluded to; there's a huge list of exchanges that went off the radar or claimed being hacked of all of their funds, where it's clear they effectively stole those funds.
  
• No insane withdrawal fees. Related to above point: Centralized exchanges always try to make you leave your coins with them. It is often extremely expensive (e.g. $20 withdrawal fee) to actually get those BTC you bought into a wallet you actually own; or they try to convince you by offering dividends ('staking Bitcoins etc.'). As long as you don't withdraw, the exchange could go offline, it could geo-block your country, it could block your IP for 'illicit reasons' (something that can always be claimed, no matter if you did something illicit or not - keep this in mind), the exchange could claim your funds came from a crime, it could claim it was hacked and lost your funds, and other ways that would lead you without access to your money. Not being able to cheaply withdraw (read: actually get what you paid for) is a HUGE issue with centralized exchanges. Keeping funds on them should be seen as an 'optional service' and not the encouraged default.
  

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Edit: You were a fool to shitpost in here. This made me aware of your scam attempts and got you another Flag Support. I still hope my post helps someone else.
Funny though, that you're experiencing the downsides of a centralized exchange and come here telling everyone how somehow centralized exchanges are better than P2P decentralized ones...

P2P cannot give as much money as a crypto exchange can. For example, Carl The Moon has more than a few hundred million dollars and never hides from anyone. Why should an ordinary citizen be afraid of someone with a maximum of 0.10 BTC in their wallet?