Topic: [ANN] Bisq - Exchange, Decentralized. - page 5. (Read 2543 times)

Another reason to use p2p options whenever available is because that's how bitcoin was intended to be used.  The premise of institutional commercialization and  KYC requirements is the antithesis of the philosophy behind bitcoin.  It's meant to, and capable of freeing us from the Surveillance Sate.  Whenever people comply with KYC requirements they are only enable the SS to march on.

---

Not to stray to far off-topic; but this one of the reasons I'm opposed to alts in general.  For the most part they've been largely (by volume) scams, and the ones that aren't have largely failed to live up to promises.  There are notable exceptions, of course.  However, they have also served yet another sinister purpose that may or may not have been anticipated: Alts have largely become a mechanism for "legitimate exchanges" to get rich while selling out our privacy to regulatory agencies.

As this pertains to bisq; it is a very bitcoin-centric platform, but it does provide for convenient trading of XMR and it does offer provisions for trading many other alts.  So, even alts can be traded p2p and without KYC.

It's rather surprising that you don't know why some people avoid using exchanges that require KYC

One of the reasons is some exchanges Block users from certain countries using their services by identifying them from KYC. So they can't use such exchanges to buy or sell Bitcoin. Platforms like Bisq are a great option.

Also read this good post by 1miau: Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless

Why do you avoid exchanges that require KYC? What's bad about it? What are you afraid of? Why do tens of millions of users have passed KYC and don't think about anything?

I like to think of Bisq as a non-profit, even if they aren't officially registered as such (that I know of.)  As far as i can tell, all their earnings go to pay their developers and support staff, which is essentially how a non-profit operates.  It's noble of you to volunteer your efforts to help out.

---

It's HodlHodl which has a lending service, but again, I've never used it.  There's another p2p exchange that's very similar that gets mentioned a lot around here; Localcryptos.  Localcyrptos claims to employ non-custodial wallets.  Paxful is yet another p2p exchange but I think they and HodlHodl use custodial wallets.  All three resemble Localbitcoins, so maybe they all started with a whitelabel version of the original Localbitcoins site.

I've avoided using these exchanges because AFIK they do require KYC.

---

Thanks for addressing this, I had never heard of Rust language before.  I'll do a little reading about it when I get the chance.

Thanks! I made it myself, promoting a few services that I find important to get more exposure, for free.

Interesting. Do you remember what that other P2P exchange is called?

That's a pity. Rust is becoming more and more standard for important projects, especially in the Bitcoin space. I don't code in Rust myself, but I find its features and safety guarantees extremely useful.

Nice avatar you got there, n0nce.  It suits you.


I'm interested to see what Misq offers as well.  I've heard there'll be a social trading platform, and possibly some a lending platform as well.  Another P2P exchange has implemented a lending platform, but I haven't played with it.  Recently I've been avoiding any services that employ custodial wallets, and especially ones that request my identification.  That's one of the reasons I'm so pleased with Bisq.

I have heard that the bisq team is in desperate need for Java developers, so I'm assuming the Misq will be programmed in Java just like Bisq.  I'm not huge fan of Java, but if it's a stand-alone program it's less of a security risk than java web apps. 

I was thinking about one project that is still in development and it's called UnstoppableSwap for trustlessly exchanging Bitcoin for Monero using Atomic Swaps.
Problem is that you currently can't use it vice versa and exchange Monero for Bitcoin, so it only works in one direction.
I never tried using it myself, so I can't confirm how it works in real life, but good thing it has MIT License so everything can be inspected.

As far as I know, the challenge with Monero swaps was that it doesn't really have a scripting language which allows for what basically are simple smart contracts.
However, they started to work on a dedicated (as in 'not just using existing technology such as a scripting language') atomic swap 'feature' a few years ago and apparently it's live since August 2021.
https://www.getmonero.org/2021/08/20/atomic-swaps.html

Here's the paper that explains how they managed to accomplish it using so-called 'adaptor signatures'.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2101.12332.pdf
https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.12332

Thanks for that; I have to check out what all this Bisq 2.0 fuzz is all about!

It's similar situation with Bitcoin, it mostly has mouth to mouth advertisement, and they are working behind the scenes on updates and improvements.
You can't really advertise Bisq a lot in current state until they make some major changes that are coming in Bisq 2.0 Misq next-generation trading protocol.
If you check Bisq official githgub Roadmap you will see thewir next goals is to improve Liquidity, Security, Reliability, Onboarding and Management.
https://github.com/orgs/bisq-network/projects/3

Atomic swaps would be best for this purpose, but I don't know what happened with project that offered easy BTC/XMR atomic swaps.

Same as me, but you should consider that majority of people worldwide and mostly using their smartphones for everything, especially younger generation.
I am not expecting average grandpa will jump on using Bisq on smartphone for sure, but you never know

They would have to change a lot of things for sure, but some lightweight version could be created, at least for atomic swaps.
Misq is Bisq next-generation trading protocol, so I am expecting some nice surprises with new release.
There is one video about that release on their youtube channel with more information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOarJpbg4EY

Wait what, for real? One of the computers I use is an old laptop, almost 10 years old. It was a decent, up-to-date entry level machine back then, and it struggles with video calls in the browser these days, but Bisq runs without a hitch.
I'm sure it could run better if it wasn't written in Java, but I've been using it on low-level hardware for years, always going smooth (with a bit of patience, like anything else on these older machines).
On modern hardware, it's blazing fast once it finished startup (during which it needs to connect to both Bisq and Bitcoin peers).

I don't know what to say either: my old laptop has 8GB of RAM and I'm running other stuff in parallel, while having Bisq open and waiting for an open offer to be accepted.

Yes, it's for notifications only.

---

I don't know how it would be supposed to work with Bisq's current architecture, though. It requires at least the trade offer 'maker' to be online at all times, which is going to be hard on a mobile phone.

---

That's right: since Bisq is not a business, they obviously don't have an advertising budget... But I'm considering designing myself a Bisq profile picture in the future.

I would too.  It's interesting that I don't see much advertising done by Bisq.  I guess since it's not really a "business" in the traditional sense of the word, the expectation is that it'll grow organically by word-of-mouth advertising.  I've been doing my part, lol.

I played around with Bisq some years ago, but never really used the service in earnest until around 8 or 9 months ago.  Since then it's been my favorite ('hehem, to borrow n0nce's term) on/off-ramp.  But it's also my favorite way to exchange BTC/XMR.



I'm in front of a PC most of the day, so I likely wouldn't get much use out of a mobile app, but I agree that would help draw more users.

The first improvement they should work on is with the software itself, instead to work on features and alike.

I don't know about you guys but to me, the software is really hard to use. I don't mean how to use it because a kid can do it. But it takes all the memory of my OS. Up to the point, I can not do anything else, not even keep a browser open. I often need to shut down the machine or software and try again and again...

When I have a transaction to confirm, if I need to do it before tonight, better I start to try early in the morning! I can not stay behind my screen all day long! I know, my specs are not huge (4+2 GB ram) but I believe it should be far enough. No idea what others use, I started to wonder if it could be better to run a VPS (considering you manage the security of the server efficiently or move your coins once finished)

I don't know what to say. Perhaps making a light version or something around. In a release not long ago, it was nicely improved but then in the next version, the problems start again. (usually the DAO synchronization).
I remember when I talked in PM with someone here, he told me he can't use it properly with less than 16gb RAM.

By the way, with the mobile application, you only receive notifications right? You can't do anything else (i.e. confirm a TX)

It's important and good thing they are working on this major improvements, and I think they are going to release some beta version for testing in next few months or by the end of the year, unless something major changes.
I would like to see more people using Bisq, and not considering it as some complicated boogeyman exchange.
Bisq is currently available for desktop os (with mobile notifications), but it would be cool to have some basic mobile exchange version as well.

Bisq has a new update as of 10 days ago, it's now up to version 1.9.4.  One improvement is an update to the latest version of Tor, which improves network reliability.  The other significant improvement is the implementation of derivative Monero addresses, (sub-addresses) which can greatly improve privacy if you use Bisq to trade XMR.


I'm anxious to play with it, and hopeful we'll see a beta release in the next few months.  Unfortunately there isn't a set timeline for 2.0 release, but I expect some of the features will be implemented in minor version updates of 1.9.x as they get validated.

Bisq exchange is working on big update for their new version 2.0 with massive UI changes and improvements.
This is not released for public yet, current version is 1.9.2, but according to screenshots I saw this looks amazing and it improves privacy.
There is a new welcome screen, Nym profiles are available, and you can simply navigate with clicks and sliders, Lightning, Liquid, etc.
It appears to me they hired some new people to help them make it very easy to onboard new users to Bisq.
What do you think about this changes?


https://twitter.com/HillebrandMax/status/1539990521585729539

bump

Does anyone here have the latest version of the application installed?

Since I did update to the latest version, the application got stuck. The connection to the Tor network does not work for me. I've tried deleting the obsolete Tor files but nothing works and changing the bridge is not applied when I restart. So I'm not able to try with obsf3 or another.
Now I'm out of ideas other than removing the application and use a backup

That sucks when you only have a few hours left to confirm a transaction. The previous update was a huge optimization but this one is like going backwards

Bisq exchange is going to add USDT Tether coin from next release, and I think this could be very good for increasing their overall trading volume, but I still don't trust any stable coin that can be frozen or get transactions reversed like in case with USDT:
Merged source code: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/pull/5735

It looks like that Bisq exchange is going to start using Liquid network (centralized federate Bitcoin sidechain) as their base protocol, and regular Bitcoin protocol will be available only as alternative option.
I understand the need to do something and try lowering fees but I don't understand why developers have to use almost dead chain like Liquid that is centralized solution dependent on kyc and limited number of people.
Bisq should be all about privacy and nothing is finally decide and there is Bisq github topic investigating new trading protocol:

https://twitter.com/wiz/status/1385980688428507143

Version 1.5.1 there is an annoying bug.

The application doesn't detect the blockchain confirmation and doesn't update the trade process and stuck in a phase.

Bug in examples:

-Bitcoins are transferred but the application doesn't detect a confirmation hence the trade cannot continue.
-You're selling bitcoins, the buyer initiated the payment and you receive it but you can't confirm to then release the bitcoins. In another word, you can't finish the trade but the timer continues to go. After the initial delay, I won't be surprised if I lose my security deposit because I didn't respect the protocol (which I can't since the application is buggy)

I'm trying to resync the SPV file with the hope it does something positive otherwise I won't be able to do much:/
Coincidence, it happens when you don't have the time to take care of such things

Hello,

I just used Bisq for the first time. It isn't very intuitive to say the least. Once I figured out enough, sent BTC to my wallet, took an offer to sell BTC, said to Bisq to use my BTC balance for the trade to keep it simple, it started doing its thing, and after 30s, "transaction not completed in 30s". And that's it, it's failed, Bisq has taken its fee, my BTC is in limbo waiting for confirmations despite having paid high fees, and nothing else happens.

I'm told I can ask for a fee refund on github.

What the heck ?