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Topic: [ANN] Bitcoinica Consultancy abandons customers. Bitcoinica to enter Liquidation - page 15. (Read 54936 times)

legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.

BB.

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

This is what you will get if you continue to work together with them, accept it as it is. It isn't even spreading FUD if people tell you it is best to cut all ties with Intersango, you don't want to have angry people show up to wash their dirty laundry right in the workshops.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.

BB.

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.
aq
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
legal
You are so obsessed with the law, that it would be in your best interest to just quit Bitcoin. No really, fiat is your world. They even fabricate laws as they need. Leave Bitcoin, enter fiat. Otherwise you may even discover that bitcoins are used at silk road, another thing that is most probably not legal.
hero member
Activity: 1138
Merit: 523
Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.
For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

As far as I can see, Patrick Murck is acting in contact with Tihan Seale, who is the only known individual known to represent the owners of Bitcoinica LP.

That gives him enough authority to recover whatever possessions that used to be in Bitcoinica's care when whoever stole these says he wants to return [part of] it.


Umm wasn't Tihan fired at one point by the "Wendon Group" ? In the leaked emails he is very much claiming to be so. In light of that I don't really see how you guys can take anything he says at face value.
vip
Activity: 608
Merit: 501
-
Sure, that is the main reason why you (and others) try to prevent ZT to return the funds. Very logically Huh
If Zhou was not the theif, then the funds are not his to return. He is not legally entitled to handle or transfer stolen goods and nor it seems is Murck. Don't try to bait me on logic. It's clear that you cannot understand the logic that for something to be legally legitimate it must have legal authority.

Logic and law do not mix well, but most of the time laws do make sense.

For example you do not need legal authority to be acting legally, you just need to act within the scope of the law.

For Patrick Murck, officially representing the owners of Bitcoinica LP, receiving goods that were stolen from Bitcoinica LP sounds actually fine, and is probably the best thing that could happen at that point.

The fact is returning funds to customers is not going to be made easy at all by the fact that part of the funds is missing, and the fact that active account data was apparently deleted by the hacker. The claim process is made so people can fill claims, but those claims then need to be reviewed, and processed. The process also usually includes selling any company property to attempt to reduce the missing part... this will take some time.
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.
Why do you even care?
Because it is of absolute importance that any legal effort to return stolen funds is, in fact legal.

No coins are back in the hands of their rightful owners. Therefore NO coins have yet been recovered.
Thankfully they have ignored your for-the-5th-time question and the funds are now safe at mtgox.
"Safe"? Perhaps. Legally? Who knows. Returned to the victims? Certainly not.  Wow, what a righteous victory!

Sure, that is the main reason why you (and others) try to prevent ZT to return the funds. Very logically Huh
If Zhou was not the theif, then the funds are not his to return. He is not legally entitled to handle or transfer stolen goods and nor it seems is Murck. Don't try to bait me on logic. It's clear that you cannot understand the logic that for something to be legally legitimate it must have legal authority.

You should really contact mlawrence, you are a perfect match to form some "Bitcoin crusade"
I have no interest with mlawrence and its clear that you have no interest in factual and sincere discussion of the matter.

Since the conference will be probably be co-sponsored by Intersango, this is not going to happen. And this why the conference will fall under a bad light because they cannot afford to lose sponsors I'm sure.
If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.


BB.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?


BB.

No. Bitcoin conference is a major event which should absolutely not be made about the bitcoinica fiasco.

You are right. This is why I politely call all Intersango staff involved in organizing the conference to step back from their responsibility, just as they have from Bitcoinica. Since the conference will probably be co-sponsored by Intersango, this is not going to happen. And this why the conference will fall under a bad light because they cannot afford to lose sponsors I'm sure.
aq
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.
For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.
Why do you even care?

Without him, the coins might never have been recovered.
No coins are back in the hands of their rightful owners. Therefore NO coins have yet been recovered.
Thankfully they have ignored your for-the-5th-time question and the funds are now safe at mtgox.

You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.
You are talking out of your backside. My only agenda is the perpetuation and enrichment of Bitcoin, which demands that its real detractors (theifs, hackers, shady operators) be hunted down and made an example of.
Sure, that is the main reason why you (and others) try to prevent ZT to return the funds. Very logically Huh
You should really contact mlawrence, you are a perfect match to form some "Bitcoin crusade"
vip
Activity: 608
Merit: 501
-
Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.
For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

As far as I can see, Patrick Murck is acting in contact with Tihan Seale, who is the only known individual known to represent the owners of Bitcoinica LP.

That gives him enough authority to recover whatever possessions that used to be in Bitcoinica's care when whoever stole these says he wants to return [part of] it.
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.
For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

Without him, the coins might never have been recovered.
No coins are back in the hands of their rightful owners. Therefore NO coins have yet been recovered.

Tihan, I will join the chorus of people who implore you to answer Bruno's question.

Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed.
Nefario, I totally understand where you are coming from. This is why for your own and the sake of the conference, you must immediately jettison any and all involvement with Intersango/Bitcoinica and other actors. Remove them from the administration and sponsorship of the event, otherwise you will all be tarred with the same brush. There could be severe legal conclusions to all this, please save the conference from becoming compromised in this way.

You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.
You are talking out of your backside. My only agenda is the perpetuation and enrichment of Bitcoin, which demands that its real detractors (theifs, hackers, shady operators) be hunted down and made an example of.


BB.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?
Please don't boycot and hurt the conference over this. You're just hurting Bitcoin as a whole.
You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.

The Intersango guys should probably think about whether their attendance would be disruptive to the conference as a whole though.
aq
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?
Please don't boycot and hurt the conference over this. You're just hurting Bitcoin as a whole.
You have missed, that it could be BitBusters (and quite a few others) agenda to actually hurt Bitcoin.
And that should be an even greater reason for all of us not to boycott it.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Bitbuy
Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed. The venue has been paid for, awesome speakers have been arranged, over 100 tickets have been sold(and continuing fast, it's going to be sold out), and we've already got loads of sponsors (small bitcoin businesses mostly).

This event is going to be monumentous, as well as being a fantastic opportunity for bitcoiners to meet up, watch the talks, take part in the workshops, it's going to be a boon for bitcoin related businesses and some major PR for bitcoin itself.

If you guys want to turn this into a Bitcoinica rage then you'll destroy all this(other peoples money) and get nothing in return as a result.

Don't mix the conference up with the Bitcoinica affair, it will bring no good for anyone. It's going to be a great, historical event for bitcoin, and soon enough the world in general.

Nefario.

+1000

Please don't boycot and hurt the conference over this. You're just hurting Bitcoin as a whole.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 504
^SEM img of Si wafer edge, scanned 2012-3-12.
Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed. The venue has been paid for, awesome speakers have been arranged, over 100 tickets have been sold(and continuing fast, it's going to be sold out), and we've already got loads of sponsors (small bitcoin businesses mostly).

This event is going to be monumentous, as well as being a fantastic opportunity for bitcoiners to meet up, watch the talks, take part in the workshops, it's going to be a boon for bitcoin related businesses and some major PR for bitcoin itself.

If you guys want to turn this into a Bitcoinica rage then you'll destroy all this(other peoples money) and get nothing in return as a result.

Don't mix the conference up with the Bitcoinica affair, it will bring no good for anyone. It's going to be a great, historical event for bitcoin, and soon enough the world in general.

Nefario.
+1
Please don't destroy the conference over this.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?


BB.

No. Bitcoin conference is a major event which should absolutely not be made about the bitcoinica fiasco.

Chiming in on the whole Bitcoin conference (www.bitcoin2012.com) boycot idea, just to let you know that the Intersango guys are not the only ones involved in organising it.

If it's boycotted, all the work, time, effort, reputation and money that I and others(who are not involved with Bitcoinica) have already put into organising this conference will be destroyed. The venue has been paid for, awesome speakers have been arranged, over 100 tickets have been sold(and continuing fast, it's going to be sold out), and we've already got loads of sponsors (small bitcoin businesses mostly).

This event is going to be monumentous, as well as being a fantastic opportunity for bitcoiners to meet up, watch the talks, take part in the workshops, it's going to be a boon for bitcoin related businesses and some major PR for bitcoin itself.

If you guys want to turn this into a Bitcoinica rage then you'll destroy all this(other peoples money) and get nothing in return as a result.

Don't mix the conference up with the Bitcoinica affair, it will bring no good for anyone. It's going to be a great, historical event for bitcoin, and soon enough the world in general.

Nefario.


hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Time to rigorously boycott Intersango and the "Bitcoin Conference" then?


BB.

No. Bitcoin conference is a major event which should absolutely not be made about the bitcoinica fiasco.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Quote from: ydenys
If you believe the leaked emails, Mr Tihan Seale is the one who suggests using customers’ deposits for company’s expenses in the first place.

Mr Tihan Seale, do you collect Chinese relics?
aq
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Why Zhou Tong trying to prove he is real? If we believe he doesn't really exist then his ass will be safer, coz noone will try to sue him for recent Bitcoinica hack...
Since almost a year Bruno has some strange obsession about ZT being not ZT. So a long time ago, ZT posted this picture with the "Dear Bruno..." writing on it. As you can see, Bruno is still obsessed. And I am sure he would still doubt ZT being ZT after he had successfully dissected him.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
If they really wanted, there is an easy way to ask customers to resubmit the claims and cross reference them with existing details from Consultancy and Zhou and then simply pay off what’s left of funds to all verified/able proportionally.

The Consultancy has stopped communicating with anyone and there is no way for anyone else to assume control of the remaining funds and the refund process without establishing a legal basis for doing so.

We know that at the time the MtGox breach was announced genjix posted that it was likely to result in a forced 30% reduction in refunds.

We also know from genjix's posts that 38% of funds verified as owing had been paid out by July 20 (as those payments were for 50%, the users who received them represented 76% of all verified user claims).

Of course the value of BTC has shifted since recently and that will affect the total funds available for repaying users.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Quote
Allow me to re-ask my previous question, but from a different tangent.

Tihan Seale--Will you go on record stating who was the guy you met in the Chimelong Hotel (Guangzhou) lobby this past February? Which one of the two images below did the guy you met resemble the most? Also, please let the community know that you conducted due diligence researching exactly who is "Zhou Tong" prior to the transferring of payola funds to said previous owner of Bitcoinica, or was it standard operating procedure to pay any Asian boy who simply claimed he built the Bitconica site, with the hope that you got rucky and tipped the right boy.

Another call for Mr Seale to answer the question and identify Zhou Tong, it would certainly clear a lot of things up.
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