[ANN] Bitcoinica Consultancy abandons customers. Bitcoinica to enter Liquidation - page 14.

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Quote from: NRF

What I am really (and selfishly) hoping for is that it will give a legal test case and President of the status of Bitcoin in New Zealand Law . It will probably have to go all the way to the High Court to do it, and New Zealand is probably the only country in the world you can do it in at the moment (I wont bore you with New Zealand Law and current event's Roll Eyes ) .

From there it is a simple step to Commonwealth Law because of the quirks of how New Zealand law works and from there to International Law will probably have to involve another president case (or possibly even the same one).

I humbly suggest everyone get behind this bandwagon.

I don't know why you want a bandwagon to become president? Can you vote for a vehicle in New Zealand? 'Fiat Bandwagon for President.'

Quote

Not to be confused with President, nor [the plural] with "precedence"

In common law legal systems, a precedent or authority is a principle or rule established in a previous legal case that is either binding on or persuasive for a court or other tribunal when deciding subsequent cases with similar issues or facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent

Quote from: EnergyVampire

Mr Tihan Seale, do you collect Chinese relics?

lol

Quote from: disclaimer201

Quote from: tseale

Quote from: disclaimer201

Mr Seale, please identify Zhou Tong, would you? It spares us another 50 pages of ongoing speculation in 3 different threads. Thank you!

Zhou Tong is exactly who he says he is.

Good. Thank you.

Tihan didn't answer your question, but provided an answer that is supportive of Zhou Tong. Some people are easily satisfied by deflective answers. If Zhou Tong has another real world identity, Zhou Tong being a pseudonym, then Tihan's deflective answer is protecting that real worl identity.

The way this is going, it looks like Zhou Tong will become the hero. You couldn't write a story like this if you tried...or could you?

cst

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The Cosmos doesn't care about you.

Quote from: ?? on ??

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Are you joking? :P https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/watchlist-90136

bittenbob

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Quote from: sarpar on August 02, 2012, 11:13:38 AM

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 11:09:39 AM

So Intersango do not owe any funds for sponsorship at all? Regardless, you should refund their sponsorship money and remove them from the view/organisation of the conference. This is not a personal vendetta, just pragmatic action so that, whatever the legal outcome, the conference is not brought into disrepute as it has been so far and will continue to be otherwise.

BB.

+1 how much funding would you need to replace them?

I think we would be willing to raise funds to refund Intersango just so they won't be affiliated with the conference. Of course we would have to know how much to raise.

ninjarobot

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Mine Silent, Mine Deep

Quote from: sarpar on August 02, 2012, 11:05:14 AM

Quote from: Bigpiggy01 on August 02, 2012, 09:53:56 AM

Umm wasn't Tihan fired at one point by the "Wendon Group" ? In the leaked emails he is very much claiming to be so. In light of that I don't really see how you guys can take anything he says at face value.

@Tihan: indeed clarification needed. Are you still acting on behalf of the Wendon Group?

I emailed with Tihan on July 29 and he addressed some of these questions, so I hope he does not mind me sharing his clarifications here:

Quote

The idea that I've been fired is one of many false rumors perpetuated by the Consultancy. This disaster will negatively impact my livelihood. However, I have not had a "boss" since 1999

Quote

Wendon Group is an investment fund -- an inanimate pile of dollars. It does not have the ability to 'care' about Bitcoinica customers. I can and do. The return of funds to customers has been my first priority since the theft.

Tihan really seems to be acting in the best interest of Bitcoinica customers here. Of course; time will tell, but at least I have some hope again.

disclaimer201

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Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 11:07:20 AM

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 10:58:12 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

http://www.bitcoin2012.com/sponsorship Intersango is listed at the very top of the page as a sponsor. It's personnel are heavily implicated in a massive bitcoin theft. Therefore it is concievable that if their guilt is proven, stolen funds may have been used to pay for the sponsorship.

BB.

They were sponsors since February when the planning for the conference began, before there was any involvement with bitcoinica.

There is no chance of any stolen funds being involved with the event.

Good. You only need to worry about the conference's reputation by mere association then. It would be advisable to remove everything Intersango-related from flyers, posters and websites.

disclaimer201

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Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 11:05:23 AM

Quote from: rjk on August 02, 2012, 11:00:08 AM

If he is "exactly who he says he is", then why wouldn't the pictures posted by himself not be of him? If you don't know which ones are which, just look at his posting history to find the correct ones.

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 10:58:12 AM

For the avoidance of doubt.

Having met Zhou, Tihan should be able to say/repost which photo is of him.
Without having to first contact Zhou on this forum or otherwise.

BB.

This is a non-issue now. Tihan didn't know the newly posted pictures and Zhou's pictures of himself were posted long ago. Only if you followed the story just recently would this be an issue. Now that Tihan says Zhou is who he says he is, namely a freshman student with an I-toy and a 1k physical gold bitcoin, I'm certain that's how it is. Look for other clues, Sherlocks.

sarpar

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Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 11:09:39 AM

So Intersango do not owe any funds for sponsorship at all? Regardless, you should refund their sponsorship money and remove them from the view/organisation of the conference. This is not a personal vendetta, just pragmatic action so that, whatever the legal outcome, the conference is not brought into disrepute as it has been so far and will continue to be otherwise.

BB.

+1 how much funding would you need to replace them?

BitBuster

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So Intersango do not owe any funds for sponsorship at all? Regardless, you should refund their sponsorship money and remove them from the view/organisation of the conference. This is not a personal vendetta, just pragmatic action so that, whatever the legal outcome, the conference is not brought into disrepute as it has been so far and will continue to be otherwise.

BB.

Nefario

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Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 10:58:12 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

http://www.bitcoin2012.com/sponsorship Intersango is listed at the very top of the page as a sponsor. It's personnel are heavily implicated in a massive bitcoin theft. Therefore it is concievable that if their guilt is proven, stolen funds may have been used to pay for the sponsorship.

BB.

They were sponsors since February when the planning for the conference began, before there was any involvement with bitcoinica.

There is no chance of any stolen funds being involved with the event.

BitBuster

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Quote from: rjk on August 02, 2012, 11:00:08 AM

If he is "exactly who he says he is", then why wouldn't the pictures posted by himself not be of him? If you don't know which ones are which, just look at his posting history to find the correct ones.

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 10:58:12 AM

For the avoidance of doubt.

Having met Zhou, Tihan should be able to say/repost which photo is of him.
Without having to first contact Zhou on this forum or otherwise.

BB.

sarpar

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Quote from: Bigpiggy01 on August 02, 2012, 09:53:56 AM

Quote from: MagicalTux on August 02, 2012, 08:53:25 AM

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 08:45:05 AM

Quote from: tseale on August 01, 2012, 08:02:55 PM

Thankfully, Mr. Murck stepped in as a licensed attorney to broker their receipt. He was subjected to a lot of hazing and invasion of privacy here for doing so.

For the 5th time: Under what legal authority is Murck able to receive and transfer stolen goods?.

As far as I can see, Patrick Murck is acting in contact with Tihan Seale, who is the only known individual known to represent the owners of Bitcoinica LP.

That gives him enough authority to recover whatever possessions that used to be in Bitcoinica's care when whoever stole these says he wants to return [part of] it.

Umm wasn't Tihan fired at one point by the "Wendon Group" ? In the leaked emails he is very much claiming to be so. In light of that I don't really see how you guys can take anything he says at face value.

@Tihan: indeed clarification needed. Are you still acting on behalf of the Wendon Group?

sarpar

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Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:39:40 AM

Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 10:31:31 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 09:34:24 AM

If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.

BB.

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

This is what you will get if you continue to work together with them, accept it as it is. It isn't even spreading FUD if people tell you it is best to cut all ties with Intersango, you don't want to have angry people show up to wash their dirty laundry right in the workshops.

Cutting ties is one thing, accusing me of being a thief is another.

Then please do so! There is only one way to regain trust in this community: bitcoiners finally have to start making those who scam and act irresponsibly with others funds outkast.
The total lack of moral values let you greedy folk do business with whomever comes along as long as you are yourself not affected by their wrongdoing.

Money is power - be wise and challenge the source and destination of your funds. Everything has an effect - use your power for the good. (I can i.e. not explain the motivation of all those funding the pirate other than by greed )

I am not talking about karma when I warn you that relying on funding by these despicable subjects wont turn out well for you all. Look out for other sources - there is still time!

aq

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Quote from: tseale on August 02, 2012, 10:55:08 AM

Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 04:03:13 AM

Mr Seale, please identify Zhou Tong, would you? It spares us another 50 pages of ongoing speculation in 3 different threads. Thank you!

Zhou Tong is exactly who he says he is.

One can already sense now, that Bruno will still not believe it.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 10:58:12 AM

Quote from: tseale on August 02, 2012, 10:55:08 AM

Zhou Tong is exactly who he says he is.

For the avoidance of doubt, please state which photograph shows Zhou Tong?

If he is "exactly who he says he is", then why wouldn't the pictures posted by himself not be of him? If you don't know which ones are which, just look at his posting history to find the correct ones.

BitBuster

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Quote from: aq on August 02, 2012, 09:57:34 AM

You are so obsessed with the law, that it would be in your best interest to just quit Bitcoin. No really, fiat is your world. They even fabricate laws as they need. Leave Bitcoin, enter fiat. Otherwise you may even discover that bitcoins are used at silk road, another thing that is most probably not legal.

Personally, I couldn't care less if what Murck is doing is legal or not. However, with multiple law-enforcement investigations said to take place, the investigators may take a more keen interest in the legality of Murck's actions.

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

http://www.bitcoin2012.com/sponsorship Intersango is listed at the very top of the page as a sponsor. It's personnel are heavily implicated in a massive bitcoin theft. Therefore it is concievable that if their guilt is proven, stolen funds may have been used to pay for the sponsorship.

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:39:40 AM

Cutting ties is one thing, accusing me of being a thief is another.

Which I was careful not to do, as you appear to be careful not to distance yourself and the conference from individuals at the centre of this controversy.

Quote from: tseale on August 02, 2012, 10:55:08 AM

Zhou Tong is exactly who he says he is.

For the avoidance of doubt, please state which photograph shows Zhou Tong?

BB.

disclaimer201

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Quote from: tseale on August 02, 2012, 10:55:08 AM

Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 04:03:13 AM

Mr Seale, please identify Zhou Tong, would you? It spares us another 50 pages of ongoing speculation in 3 different threads. Thank you!

Zhou Tong is exactly who he says he is.

Good. Thank you.

tseale

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Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 04:03:13 AM

Mr Seale, please identify Zhou Tong, would you? It spares us another 50 pages of ongoing speculation in 3 different threads. Thank you!

Zhou Tong is exactly who he says he is.

BTCurious

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^SEM img of Si wafer edge, scanned 2012-3-12.

Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 10:44:27 AM

As I understood it nobody made such an accusation!

Then read the quote you quoted, srsly -_-

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 09:34:24 AM

it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one

disclaimer201

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Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:39:40 AM

Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 10:31:31 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 09:34:24 AM

If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.

BB.

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

This is what you will get if you continue to work together with them, accept it as it is. It isn't even spreading FUD if people tell you it is best to cut all ties with Intersango, you don't want to have angry people show up to wash their dirty laundry right in the workshops.

Cutting ties is one thing, accusing me of being a thief is another.

As I understood it nobody made such an accusation!

Nefario

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Quote from: disclaimer201 on August 02, 2012, 10:31:31 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 02, 2012, 10:27:17 AM

Quote from: BitBuster on August 02, 2012, 09:34:24 AM

If as many expect, the Intersango trio are eventually proven to be liable/culpable, it could be argued that the whole conference was sponsored by theives with stolen money.

BB.

This is rubbish, I've been responsible for the whole sponsorship side of the conference since day one, to say that stolen money was used for the conference is wrong in every way, unless you're calling me a thief.

This is what you will get if you continue to work together with them, accept it as it is. It isn't even spreading FUD if people tell you it is best to cut all ties with Intersango, you don't want to have angry people show up to wash their dirty laundry right in the workshops.

Cutting ties is one thing, accusing me of being a thief is another.

Topic: [ANN] Bitcoinica Consultancy abandons customers. Bitcoinica to enter Liquidation - page 14. (Read 54936 times)