ANN: BITMAIN has Tested Its 28nm Bitcoin Mining Chip BM1382 - page 107.

sciack

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Quote from: JCNC on June 19, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

Just running some calculations, for all those saying it will be 1 BTC, based on a 20% diff increase each time, you won't see that money back. Maybe I did something wrong, but hey, I'm just giving it a shot for my own personal calculations. Maybe someone will find this useful too. By these calculations anyway, if the price of them was 0.5 BTC, you would make £786.89 total after 4 months of running. Running them after 4 months would result in you losing money. That £786.89 isn't taking into account other hardware that you may need, PSU, Switch board, Frame, Extra fans. And that pretty much would take all of that $786.89! Not too mention the UK VAT that you have to pay getting it shipped over here. If they were priced at 0.5 BTC, I'd be making 0 money at all buying these.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this is a estimate of running 10 of them at a time. Not factoring in overclock speeds as I know someone mentioned previously they saw no reason why it couldn't be OC'd up to 800 GH+ but I have no idea about that! Huh

Code:

Difficulty 1 (11.6 days in)
...

this is simply wrong for one simple reason, you don't know the BTC value where it will be. And according to my expectations it will rise a lot probably more than double in a couple of months...

JCNC

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Quote from: iglasses on June 19, 2014, 08:26:44 AM

What makes you think SP30's aren't hashing right now? It certainly won't be September when they send them to the people that paid for them until they are plugged in.

I assumed that based on their September batch order on the website. I guess the increase won't be a substantial change, but still, even factoring that out, I'm finding it hard to see profit anywhere Sad

Biffa

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Quote from: iglasses on June 19, 2014, 08:26:44 AM

What makes you think SP30's aren't hashing right now? It certainly won't be September when they send them to the people that paid for them until they are plugged in.

If they are hashing right now then thats great because difficulty aint going to be affected by them

iglasses

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What makes you think SP30's aren't hashing right now? It certainly won't be September when they send them to the people that paid for them until they are plugged in.

JCNC

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Quote from: Biffa on June 19, 2014, 08:20:48 AM

Quote from: JCNC on June 19, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

-snip-

20% difficulty is wrong judging by current increase levels, now they might be wrong projecting forwards but then again they might not. Most difficulty projections have been overly pessimistic in the past. But the same doom and gloom mongers will come out now and say we are all wrong and it'll be 25% or something daft. As hash rate increases it takes a lot more hardware to make a dent in difficulty than it did before. Most of the new hardware coming out hasn't really been a major change in performance, just iterative improvements in efficiency or performance. So it could stay at 14-15%

Yes, exactly. I was trying to be a little pessimistic rather than the latter. The main concern I'd have is when the SP30 hits the market, the total hash rate would improve drastically. But then again, that would be at towards the end of the projected 4 months lifespan I've assumed. Anyway, just trying to get a bit realistic before I consider anything drastic

Biffa

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Quote from: JCNC on June 19, 2014, 08:13:07 AM

Just running some calculations, for all those saying it will be 1 BTC, based on a 20% diff increase each time, you won't see that money back. Maybe I did something wrong, but hey, I'm just giving it a shot for my own personal calculations.

20% difficulty is wrong judging by current increase levels, now they might be wrong projecting forwards but then again they might not. Most difficulty projections have been overly pessimistic in the past. But the same doom and gloom mongers will come out now and say we are all wrong and it'll be 25% or something daft. As hash rate increases it takes a lot more hardware to make a dent in difficulty than it did before. Most of the new hardware coming out hasn't really been a major change in performance, just iterative improvements in efficiency or performance. So it could stay at 14-15%

JCNC

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Just running some calculations, for all those saying it will be 1 BTC, based on a 20% diff increase each time, you won't see that money back. Maybe I did something wrong, but hey, I'm just giving it a shot for my own personal calculations. Maybe someone will find this useful too. By these calculations anyway, if the price of them was 0.5 BTC, you would make £786.89 total after 4 months of running. Running them after 4 months would result in you losing money. That £786.89 isn't taking into account other hardware that you may need, PSU, Switch board, Frame, Extra fans. And that pretty much would take all of that $786.89! Not too mention the UK VAT that you have to pay getting it shipped over here. If they were priced at 0.5 BTC, I'd be making 0 money at all buying these.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this is a estimate of running 10 of them at a time. Not factoring in overclock speeds as I know someone mentioned previously they saw no reason why it couldn't be OC'd up to 800 GH+ but I have no idea about that! Huh

Code:

Difficulty 1 (11.6 days in)
£786.248 total income
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £658.248
Potential profit for total running time = £658.248

Diff 2 (+12 days, 23.6 days in)
This diff +£677.76
Total income after 23.6 days in £1464.008
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £551.76
Potential profit for total running time = £1210.008

Diff 3 (+12 days, 35.6 days in)
This diff +£564.84
Total income after 35.6 days in £2028.848
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £436.84
Potential profit for total running time = £1646.848

Diff 4 (+12 days, 47.6 days in)
This diff +£470.64
Total income after 47.6 days in £2499.488
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £342.64
Potential profit for total running time = £1989.488

Diff 5 (+12 days, 59.6 days in) 
This diff +£392.28
Total income after 59.6 days in £2891.768
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £264.28
Potential profit for total running time = £2253.768

Diff 6 (+12 days, 71.6 days in)
This diff +£326.88
Total income after 71.6 days in £3218.648
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £198.88
Potential profit for total running time = £2452.648

Diff 7 (+12 days, 83.6 days in)
This diff +£272.4
Total income after 83.6 days in £3491.048
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £144.4
Potential profit for total running time = £2597.048

Diff 8 (+12 days, 95.6 days in)
This diff +£227.04
Total income after 95.6 days in £3718.088
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £99.04
Potential profit for total running time = £2696.088

Diff 9 (+12 days, 107.6 days in)
This diff +£189.12
Total income after 107.6 days in £3907.208
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £61.12
Potential profit for total running time = £2757.208

Diff 10 (+12 days, 119.6 days in)
This diff +£157.68
Total income after 119.6 days in £4064.888
Electricity cost = £128
Hardware cost = ?
Potential profit for diff = £29.68
Potential profit for total running time = £2786.888

Pointless increase of £3.40 in next diff and losses afterwards, therefore red line.

bkpduke

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Quote from: Sitarow on June 19, 2014, 07:35:27 AM

Quote from: alexrossi on June 19, 2014, 01:32:50 AM

A truly fantastic price would be 0.99 btc shipped, let's see if bitmain can do it

Updated the Difficultly vs Return chart.

Document with various hardware manufactures and estimated shutdown time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeuPljmUNHCdEpqX2RmMDFwemJyLURVUWFtZ3J3aGc&usp=sharing

Your spondoolies-tech prices are WAY off. And the SP10 is no longer available.

yslyung

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Mine Mine Mine

Quote from: s1lverbox on June 19, 2014, 07:04:17 AM

Quote from: BrizTech on June 19, 2014, 05:55:48 AM

What's frustrating, is if any of you have ever dealt with a Bitmain return... They ask you to declare at $10 and label as 'computer gateway', so they don't have to pay import tax their end, but expect us to pay full whack. I know they're one of the best ASIC manufacturers around, but c'mon, need to declare the value lower!

YES YES YES !!! BITMAIN I say again PLEASE DO THE SAME FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS as you EXPECT them to do the same for you !!!

really? I don't want to troll but can you post part of email or something to show that actually bitmain asking to declare this return as "10$ gateway"?

Sitarow

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Quote from: alexrossi on June 19, 2014, 01:32:50 AM

A truly fantastic price would be 0.99 btc shipped, let's see if bitmain can do it

Updated the Difficultly vs Return chart.

Document with various hardware manufactures and estimated shutdown time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeuPljmUNHCdEpqX2RmMDFwemJyLURVUWFtZ3J3aGc&usp=sharing

JCNC

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Quote from: iglasses on June 19, 2014, 07:13:58 AM

Quote from: JCNC on June 19, 2014, 07:03:33 AM

-ship-

Can't you hook up with someone who doesn't pay vat and work something out with them? I'm from the US so I don't really know how it works.

Possibly, but at the end of the day, I have low electricity costs here, a place to set them up and monitor them constantly. Trusting someone else with a large amount of money would take some doing :/

iglasses

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Quote from: JCNC on June 19, 2014, 07:03:33 AM

Judging by everyone's experience of shipping, I don't think I'll be ordering any amount of these unless BITMAIN announces some solution to the steep costs of getting it to the UK. I'd want some form of guarantee that they will declare the value of it extremely low, but hey, that probably won't happen Sad

Can't you hook up with someone who doesn't pay vat and work something out with them? I'm from the US so I don't really know how it works.

s1lverbox

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Quote from: BrizTech on June 19, 2014, 05:55:48 AM

What's frustrating, is if any of you have ever dealt with a Bitmain return... They ask you to declare at $10 and label as 'computer gateway', so they don't have to pay import tax their end, but expect us to pay full whack. I know they're one of the best ASIC manufacturers around, but c'mon, need to declare the value lower!

really? I don't want to troll but can you post part of email or something to show that actually bitmain asking to declare this return as "10$ gateway"?

JCNC

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Judging by everyone's experience of shipping, I don't think I'll be ordering any amount of these unless BITMAIN announces some solution to the steep costs of getting it to the UK. I'd want some form of guarantee that they will declare the value of it extremely low, but hey, that probably won't happen Sad

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: kabopar on June 19, 2014, 02:29:12 AM

Quote from: ZiG on June 19, 2014, 01:19:08 AM

Quote from: powersup on June 18, 2014, 11:35:21 PM

I beleive the launch price will be between 1.3 - 1.8 BTC each consider the RK-Box is $649 US @ 450gh and just over 1w/gh

At stock, the miner will be 0.77w/gh, and undervolted it will be 0.58w/gh. So i think Bitmain will factor this, and of course average rise of BTC when calculating ROI pricing.

S2 is @ $1450 ...after the coupon...1TH...

S3 ...Haft of 1TH...half price...= $725...the most... Wink

EDIT...:

About 1.2 -1.25 BTC...and I'll think about it...

A comparison to S2 is irrelevant imho, as S3 comes without a PS or full enclosure.

Actually the smaller hash rate/size is a good decision, as it will be easier to ship, easier to make a 'buy decision' and will come below the customs/VAT/GST threshold in some cases (or at least will make it less painful). Another consideration is that if you intend to mine and then sell the h/w, it is a lot easier to sell something like S1 or S3 on eBay than a >=1TH 'beast'.

Cheers

Bingo. It is cheaper to ship. It ships safely without breaking. 2 units = 1 th so if one breaks you still have .5 th

These are better space heaters with the .8 watt per ghash they will run into the fall and winter still paying for the power with btc hashed and heat homes.

Just think your cold home has 9 rooms put these in every room and boom you have a 400 watt space heater. runs quietly puts out about 2000 btus of heat that pay you.

Note to bitmaintech I want to thank you for using my idea of running a contest to design a space heater from an s-1.

I never got the contest off the ground in now looks like I have to award you the prize since your design of this s-3 would be the perfect space heater for a home.

Thank god for you guys. I will find my thread on the contest and link it to this space.

BrizTech

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What's frustrating, is if any of you have ever dealt with a Bitmain return... They ask you to declare at $10 and label as 'computer gateway', so they don't have to pay import tax their end, but expect us to pay full whack. I know they're one of the best ASIC manufacturers around, but c'mon, need to declare the value lower!

Biffa

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Quote from: cxboyminer on June 19, 2014, 03:28:54 AM

I thought hk has a free pass since uk was the owner of hk?

The transfer of sovereignty over Hong Kong from the United Kingdom to China, referred to as "the Handover" internationally or "the Return" in China, took place on 1 July 1997, and marked the end of British rule in Hong Kong.

Quote from: JCNC on June 19, 2014, 03:23:30 AM

Quote from: cxboyminer on June 19, 2014, 02:53:13 AM

Does the UK still require import tax if the miner is sent from Hong Kong?

As far as I know yes, would really like to know the price first though and whether or not it's worth to get 10 of these imported to the UK. The import tax will be the real killer here. If BITMAIN could shred some light on UK import prices that would be a really proactive thing for a company to do! Wink

There is no import tax, just VAT and a handling charge for the carrier.

There are two things that BITMAIN do wrong when exporting (lets skip the under declaration of value as thats illegal)

1. They OVER declare the value, they don't include the discount on the invoice or even on the customs declaration.
2. They label the device "Bitcoin miner" which is just stupid, just call it Computer or Computer Coprocessor Component, or even just "Server", better yet use the correct commodity code. (e.g. 8471.41.90 for Server device)

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&Area=&Taric=8471410090 could be the perfect commodity code:

Quote

8471
Automatic data-processing machines and units thereof; magnetic or optical readers, machines for transcribing data onto data media in coded form and machines for processing such data, not elsewhere specified or included
8471 30
-    Portable automatic data-processing machines, weighing not more than 10 kg, consisting of at least a central processing unit, a keyboard and a display
-    Other automatic data-processing machines
8471 41
- -    Comprising in the same housing at least a central processing unit and an input and output unit, whether or not combined

mdude77

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Remember bitmain is like most other companies out there. At the end of the day their goal is to make as much money as possible. They really don't care about you, just how much of your money they can get.

So I think it's unrealistic to expect the price to be low..

M

Slaine

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Quote from: cxboyminer on June 19, 2014, 04:06:40 AM

Because of hk had the free pass, I can help people buy since I live in HK. 1-2 days shipping from china. How about usa?

The US has a trade agreement with China, so they don't get shafted by import taxes like we do in Europe.

cxboyminer

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Because of hk had the free pass, I can help people buy since I live in HK. 1-2 days shipping from china. How about usa?

Topic: ANN: BITMAIN has Tested Its 28nm Bitcoin Mining Chip BM1382 - page 107. (Read 143992 times)