[ANN] BTCDice.com - The Best Bitcoin Game in the World! - Better Payouts - page 4.

mem

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 501

Herp Derp PTY LTD

Quote from: BTCDice on September 25, 2012, 07:25:51 AM

My payout is proper. Only thing not matching to what dooglus said is displayed multiplier (which shows prior to house percent). I updated how it works page to reflect that.

Place a bet, do the math, it is correct.

Anyone who says not correct is not able to do math.

I not run a scam, and it slander for you to say I do.

You show a multiplier of 2x payout multiplier and Odds of 50% where in fact it is not.
You say people do not understand maths, I say your grasp of the English language and gambling terms is insufficient.
What you advertise as a "payout multiplier" is not a "payout multiplier".

No casino or game advertises odds and payouts in this manner, for the obvious reason it will confuse the player to the houses advantage.

It is misleading, intentionally or not. What is very clear is that you claim it is a preference and yet I do not see any players requesting payouts to be displayed as such, in fact I cannot envision any scenario where a player would want payouts displayed in such a confusing manner.

If you correct your payouts at a later date, please let me know so I can review and re-add you to the list.

Perhaps SCAM is a to hash label for this issue, I have been considering adding the new category MISLEADING for games in the SCAM/ PENDING list.
Your site is the first to have sufficiently confusing payouts (while still paying out clients) to warrant this..... Well done I guess.

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

My payout is proper. Only thing not matching to what dooglus said is displayed multiplier (which shows prior to house percent). I updated how it works page to reflect that.

Place a bet, do the math, it is correct.

Anyone who says not correct is not able to do math.

I not run a scam, and it slander for you to say I do.

Example:

Bet transaction: 99b31c20a44827237c1f97341fd3ce3a098d54342b6df14d13647862410e271f
http://www.btcdice.com/details.html?q=51383

Bet placed for 2 BTC to 50% odds, 2.000x multiplier, 1.65% house percent.

2 * 2.000 = 4
4 * .9835 = 3.934

I pay 3.93350000 in return, which is 98.35% return on a bet of 2, multiplied by 2. Exactly what I display on site.

Your preference to have it display different is not meaning I am scam.

mem

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 501

Herp Derp PTY LTD

Quote from: willphase on September 22, 2012, 02:11:36 AM

Quote from: darkmule on September 21, 2012, 08:40:30 PM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 14, 2012, 11:34:27 PM

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting. Grin

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid. I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.

Indeed. I PMed BTCdice a whike back about the double commission he was charging compared with satoshidice and the false advertising of a seemingly better rate compared with satoshidice and after a short exchange where I provided similar evidence including matching bets from both BTCdice and satoshidice, and BTCdice stayed in denial and refused to accept my points.

I just stopped using them. Recommend others do too until they fix their payouts or at least accept what both Douglas and I are saying as the truth.

Can provide PM logs if anyone wants.

Will

Im afraid btcdice is no longer welcome on my list until they rectify their payouts.
It seems clear this confusion is to the advantage of the house and quite possibly done on purpose to mislead the player.
I shall update its listing tonight to "SCAM".

btcdice admin, if you decide to correct your payout listing please let me know.

willphase

hero member

Activity: 767

Merit: 500

Quote from: darkmule on September 21, 2012, 08:40:30 PM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 14, 2012, 11:34:27 PM

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting. Grin

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid. I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.

Indeed. I PMed BTCdice a whike back about the double commission he was charging compared with satoshidice and the false advertising of a seemingly better rate compared with satoshidice and after a short exchange where I provided similar evidence including matching bets from both BTCdice and satoshidice, and BTCdice stayed in denial and refused to accept my points.

I just stopped using them. Recommend others do too until they fix their payouts or at least accept what both Douglas and I are saying as the truth.

Can provide PM logs if anyone wants.

Will

darkmule

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1005

Quote from: BTCDice on September 14, 2012, 11:34:27 PM

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting. Grin

The only fight that seems to be occurring here is your fight against reality.

Dooglus is one of the sharpest people on here, and his point appears to be valid. I don't think I can trust a site that operates the way you seem to be operating, and I am pretty sure other potential players here have reached the same conclusion.

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

A switch died at the NOC and bets are not process while it is having replacement. It will be fixed very soon.

Kasgel

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Site down. I would like to get bitcoins back to my wallet.

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: dooglus on September 14, 2012, 01:42:58 AM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 13, 2012, 07:58:45 PM

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.

I give up.

Good. Fight you wont win is not worth fighting. Grin

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: BTCDice on September 13, 2012, 07:58:45 PM

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.

I give up.

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: dooglus on September 13, 2012, 11:30:45 AM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 13, 2012, 06:01:32 AM

I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.

The payout multipliers you're quoting aren't the payout multipliers you offer.

What you're doing would be like a casino saying "we pay out 38x on a single roulette number" (because that's what they would pay out if the house edge was 0%, but it isn't).

Then someone hits a single number and the casino pays out only 36x.

The player complains "you said 38x but I only got 36x", and you reply "you forgot the house edge!"

What really happens is the casino tells the player "we pay out 36x on single numbers".

That way it's clear what you're getting.

I updated help page to reflect order of operation. The multiplier on the page is what the actual multiplier is.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: BTCDice on September 13, 2012, 06:01:32 AM

I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.

The payout multipliers you're quoting aren't the payout multipliers you offer.

What you're doing would be like a casino saying "we pay out 38x on a single roulette number" (because that's what they would pay out if the house edge was 0%, but it isn't).

Then someone hits a single number and the casino pays out only 36x.

The player complains "you said 38x but I only got 36x", and you reply "you forgot the house edge!"

What really happens is the casino tells the player "we pay out 36x on single numbers".

That way it's clear what you're getting.

xblitz

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

no don't change the math , it's perfect, hes talking about how the "effective" payout multiplier is written on the game table ...

so on your "Less than 32768, 50%" pays 2x minus house percent [ 2 * 0.9835 = 1.967 ] so in the table you should write 1.967x multiplier
but for the ones that the payout minus house percent give a long decimal number , still use the correct math , but round up the displayed number on the table page.

looks at this comparison table

odd/65536	Even multiplier	Effective multiplier	Displayed multiplier
1	65536	64454.656	64454.656
2	32768	32227.328	32227.328
4	16384	16113.664	16113.664
8	8192	8056.832	8056.832
16	4096	4028.416	4028.416
32	2048	2014.208	2014.208
64	1024	1007.104	1007.104
128	512	503.552	503.552
256	256	251.776	251.776
512	128	125.888	125.888
1000	65.536	64.454656	64.455
1500	43.6906666667	42.969770667	42.970
2000	32.768	32.227328	32.227
3000	21.8453333333	21.4848853333	21.485
4000	16.384	16.113664	16.114
6000	10.9226666667	10.7424426667	10.742
8000	8.192	8.056832	8.057
12000	5.46133333333	5.37122133333	5.371
16000	4.096	4.028416	4.028
24000	2.73066666667	2.68561066667	2.686
32000	2.048	2.014208	2.014
32768	2	1.967	1.967
48000	1.36533333333	1.34280533333	1.343

So for the page aesthetics you can display a rounded effective multiplier to 3 decimals so it looks nice.. but don't change the real math behind the calculation of the payout!

I hope this helps out

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: xblitz on September 13, 2012, 12:08:59 AM

Quote from: dooglus on September 13, 2012, 12:00:31 AM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 09:37:37 PM

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct. If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets. i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it. That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):

Code:

>>> 4.096 * (1-1.650/100)
4.028416

and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

Yeah I think your suggestion is the best thing to do.... less confusion!

I will update help page, but not going to change math to something inconsistent.

xblitz

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

Quote from: dooglus on September 13, 2012, 12:00:31 AM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 09:37:37 PM

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct. If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets. i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it. That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):

Code:

>>> 4.096 * (1-1.650/100)
4.028416

and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

Yeah I think your suggestion is the best thing to do.... less confusion!

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 09:37:37 PM

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

Your help page at http://btcdice.com/howitworks.html says:

If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier and that amount is sent back.

But that's not correct. If you win, your bet is multiplied by the prize multiplier, then the house edge is subtracted, and that amount is sent back.

It would be best if you showed the actual multiplier the user gets. i.e. take the house edge off the prize multiplier before stating it. That way people can compare your odds with SD's to easily see which is better odds.

For example, on "lessthan 16000", instead of saying the payout is "4.096x", calculate 4.096*(1-edge/100):

Code:

>>> 4.096 * (1-1.650/100)
4.028416

and state that the payout is 4.028x.

That way people can make a direct comparison with SD's quoted multiplier of 4.003x.

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: xblitz on September 12, 2012, 10:08:43 PM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 09:37:37 PM

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005

Ah now i see that you have just fixed them to the right number.. so my math was good.. but seems you have just fixed it.. thank you!

Yes, I changed rounding to be more favorable to the user (made it round up where it was rounding down) and changed calculation slightly.

xblitz

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 09:37:37 PM

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005

Ah now i see that you have just fixed them to the right number.. so my math was good.. but seems you have just fixed it.. thank you!

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: xblitz on September 12, 2012, 04:48:19 PM

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 03:42:46 PM

Quote from: xblitz on September 12, 2012, 12:08:29 PM

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000 1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6 24.4141% 4.064x 1.650% 98.35% 0.0010 50.0000 203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations 1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635 ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.

I thought the house percent already included in the multiplier? can you explain the real calculation behind the payout?

seeing a 98.35% payout, I thought BTCDice had better payout than SatoshiDice ..
but the same bet at satoshidice: 1btc at the less than 16000 (24.4141%) gave me 4.00219600 (which is 4.002696 - 0.0005 fee)
so SatoshiDice is actually giving me the multiplier displayed in the table minus txfee
see this one:
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=51c6edd2e6ba5d459bf527912f77ce088bad85b305454417c4588b33a7f42257
yet on BTCDice this is what i got:
http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=38368

Multiplier is calculated by (65536 / Game Lessthan). Previously, that number was rounded down then truncated after 3rd digit, but now it is either rounded up before truncate, or simply truncated.

I take house percentage after multiplier is calculated as doing it other ways (ex. as part of multiplier) are inconsistent in results. Edit: To make clearer, it makes results inconsistent from game to game, or with largely different bet amount, and not always in favor of user.

Satoshidice shows multiplier less the house percent. I show multiplier prior to house percent.

I don't run satoshidice so I can't say how they do their backend maths, but I know payout (housecut, etc) is not consistent from game to game on their site.

Mine is: ((Bet * Multiplier) * (.9835)) - 0.0005

xblitz

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

Quote from: BTCDice on September 12, 2012, 03:42:46 PM

Quote from: xblitz on September 12, 2012, 12:08:29 PM

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000 1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6 24.4141% 4.064x 1.650% 98.35% 0.0010 50.0000 203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations 1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635 ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.

I thought the house percent already included in the multiplier? can you explain the real calculation behind the payout?

seeing a 98.35% payout, I thought BTCDice had better payout than SatoshiDice ..
but the same bet at satoshidice: 1btc at the less than 16000 (24.4141%) gave me 4.00219600 (which is 4.002696 - 0.0005 fee)
so SatoshiDice is actually giving me the multiplier displayed in the table minus txfee
see this one:
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=51c6edd2e6ba5d459bf527912f77ce088bad85b305454417c4588b33a7f42257
yet on BTCDice this is what i got:
http://btcdice.com/details.html?q=38368

BTCDice

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: xblitz on September 12, 2012, 12:08:29 PM

I just bet 1 btc on this one:

less than 16000 1BTCDiceVit4ZoX62ksdLCbD3fsUww1hX6 24.4141% 4.064x 1.650% 98.35% 0.0010 50.0000 203.0000

which states it has a multiplier of 4.064x ..

and I only got back 3.996444 btc ...

if i do my calculations 1 x 4.064 = 4.064 - 0.0005 (txfee) = 4.0635 ..

is my math wrong?

Minus the house percent.

Topic: [ANN] BTCDice.com - The Best Bitcoin Game in the World! - Better Payouts - page 4. (Read 11456 times)