Topic: [ANN] BTCJam - Peer to Peer Bitcoin Lending - page 5. (Read 204980 times)

Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted.

I don't know if they still do, but I know in the past that several btcjam employees (including senior management people) were investing in numerous btcjam loans while working for btcjam. I wonder if they also lined their pockets with unpaid loans which is why btcjam is fighting so hard not to give us anything enforceable, first cutting ties with a legitimate arbitration firm and now bad-mouthing enforcemyarbitrationaward.com.

Very interesting, is there any way to substantiate your claim? How do you know that such activities were conducted in the past? That kind of activity is akin to Jam buying up deeply discounted Notes on defaulted loans of which they know they could later collect on, using insider knowledge to profit at the expense of investors is not particularly looked on as positive by the authorities

Of course, there is at the time of this writing very little legislation governing BTC transactions in the U.S, but a lot is coming which is why BTCJam probably discontinued servicing US customers so abruptly in March this year. That does not exclude them from civil prosecution though, they had a duty to their investors that they themselves created by offering BTCJam to investors.

cynical_observer

newbie

Activity: 6

Merit: 0

Quote from: PT92 on July 19, 2016, 03:24:59 AM

Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted.

I don't know if they still do, but I know in the past that several btcjam employees (including senior management people) were investing in numerous btcjam loans while working for btcjam. I wonder if they also lined their pockets with unpaid loans which is why btcjam is fighting so hard not to give us anything enforceable, first cutting ties with a legitimate arbitration firm and now bad-mouthing enforcemyarbitrationaward.com.

PT92

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

@Kanati atleast Tulkas is sort of responding (opposing to the customer, which has gone on full ignore it seems). Shouldn't take long to double check it with Dhami Law, a matter of one phone call to them (opposed to us, "for more information contact Dhami Law" <- HOW?!).

isvicre

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Kanati on July 14, 2016, 03:42:42 PM

Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted.

I'm done with writing my thesis next month and have plenty of time to spent on figuring this class action suit format. Guess we should gather a lot of people that are involved, any suggestions to do it under BTCjam's radar?

I'm pretty sure you could do anything and it would fly under their radar. I could imagine btcjam is staffed by about 4 people with multiple jobs and one of those people has only one job, withdraw profit. It's a company designed to operate for a limited time, hoover up bitcoin and then slowly fade away when a real competitor arises.

If anyone has any interest in pursuing btcjam for arbitration awards or creating an alternate platform you can pm me. I've lost between 3 and 5btc myself.

Kanati

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 12

Quote from: Tulkas on July 11, 2016, 08:37:45 PM

Kanati,

Regarding enforcemyarbitration we advise you not to work with them, they are using our user database without authorization (they got it from NET-ARB from when we used their service) and working with net-arb to enforce the loans, this is a violation of arbitration laws (the arbitror cannot work with the lawyer that is enforcing the award).

I'm verifying with Dhami what this authentication means. They are a separate arbitration firm and we are not allowed to interfere with the process since the loans are made inside our platform (arbitration needs come from an uninvolved third party).

Best,

Tulkas,

I have no knowledge or opinion about your database dispute, and to be frank I don't see how it addresses any of the points I raised earlier -

Quote

Whether our coins are 100% lost or not remains to be seen - the only way you lose for sure is to quit trying.

In any case our probability of recovery would increase if BTCjam provided us with AUTHENTICATED arbitration awards. This is also the VERY LEAST they could do considering how they've otherwise stacked the rules against us investors -

Jam collects their fees up front when investors finance the loan, which means they have no actual alignment with investor interests if the loan is not repaid.
Jam does not post statistics about the percentage of borrower defaults on their website, which is a huge risk disclosure omission for any prospective investor (https://btcjam.com/stats).
Jam suddenly changed the rules by announcing they no longer will issue loans to American borrowers. This of course is causing a wave of defaults on existing American loans, since it removes incentive for these borrowers to repay if they no longer have a future on the platform. So far no help or compensation for investors who got screwed when BTCjam decided to pull the carpet out from under them.
Jam suddenly dumped* net-arb.com as their independent arbitration provider, ostensibly "to protect members from spam". The new provider, Dhami Law Firm, has no functioning website, telephone, or e-mail, leaving investors no way to independently confirm the validity of Dhami Law Firm or the arbitration awards issued by them.
*Net-arb is still listed as Jams arbitration provider under bullet 5 of https://btcjam.com/terms-of-use
Jam is still not providing arbitration awards on defaulted loans for investors who bought notes.
Jam even threatens investors against getting help with collecting delinquent loans!..
Quote
"As a reminder, BTCjam’s Terms of Use prohibit your from posting, uploading, publishing, displaying, transmitting, sharing, storing or otherwise making or attempting to make publicly available any personally identifiable information of a borrower. Accordingly, the content of this arbitration award may not be shared via any blog, forum, medium or other communication of any kind."
Basically anyone who sends or shares an arbitration award with other investors, a lawyer, or a collection service is in violation of Jams' terms of service Huh(

Potential investors should stay away from BTCjam until they up their game (a lot!). Current investors need to light a fire under BTCjams a** and make them move on these problems.

Solutions to the above problems would be appreciated, since my support cases on these topics (Case #: 128701 & 142221) seem to have been sucked into a black hole Undecided

Investors would not need Mr. Palleys services if BTCjam provided other means for recovering our coins, but until you decide BTCjam debt collection is mature enough to graduate from the experimental stage, and you establish a clear consistent debt collection policy that investors can understand, then Mr. Palley is only resource we have.

When or if that ever happens is out of my control. Right now I am dealing with a massive number of defaults (for example more than 72% defaults on BRL loans from before I turned off AutoInvest...) and the "independent" Dhami Law Firm arbitration awards of questionable authenticity. They are certainly not looking credible since Dhami Law firm removed their website (http://www.dhamilaw.com/) and does not answer phone calls or e-mails Angry

Update -

BTCjam is unsure about what actually constitutes a valid digital signature. I attempted to steer them in the right direction with my last comment on this loan:

https://btcjam.com/listings/51749-2nd-loan-for-s7-miners

Here is a screendump of the comment, in case it's not visible at BTCjam Undecided

Kanati

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 12

Quote from: PT92 on July 19, 2016, 03:24:59 AM

Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted.

I'm done with writing my thesis next month and have plenty of time to spent on figuring this class action suit format. Guess we should gather a lot of people that are involved, any suggestions to do it under BTCjam's radar?

If you want privacy then I suggest creating a free account doing it here -

https://unseen.is

If you decide to create an account there, then I suggest creating it with your bitcointalk username.

I already made a screened Unseen chat group earlier called "Bitcoin Peer to Peer Investors Forum" which could be used, or you could create a new group of your own if you prefer. Anyone with an Unseen account who wants to join my group can send me a personal message here and request access.

Either way I would also be interested in pursuing this legally.

PT92

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted.

I'm done with writing my thesis next month and have plenty of time to spent on figuring this class action suit format. Guess we should gather a lot of people that are involved, any suggestions to do it under BTCjam's radar?

btiAndy

full member

Activity: 150

Merit: 100

If you have been ripped off, or otherwise scammed by btcjam, leave trust for tulkas here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15613889

If you have been scammed by members and have their dox, here is the thread to post them in.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12536615

Will wait another week to see if BTCjam replies, otherwise I will. Will also look if there is a decent San Francisco based lawyer that can figure this out as there must be some we can undertake against fraudulent companies that hide behind fake arbitration.

Like I said, this is in the end going to have to be a class action format suit against Jam and no lawyer will take a case like this on without multiple examples of fraud...lets start assembling and documenting all of the individual examples of fraud perpetrated by Jam and build a case to present to the authorities first...we will probably have better luck with the authorities initially; civil action for damages can follow after an official fraud investigation is conducted.

PT92

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10