Topic: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts - page 109. (Read 123199 times)

Quote from: p4u on April 03, 2018, 07:11:50 PM

...
Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

This is a valid point, but it stills begs the question: WHY do YOU need to see the source code NOW? Can you not wait a few weeks? If not, then why not? I'm an EE and have had my work stolen/copied, so I tend to take a dim view of people that demand to see the intellectual property of others for no damn good reason, and you have not presented even a half-baked reason, much less a damn good one, why YOU are entitled to it.

So chill out and let the DERO team do what they do. So far they've been doing a helluva job, and I'm inclined to let them keep on keeping on.

Looks like you'r not understanding what I'm saying... I don't want to see the source code, I want it to be free software.

I let Dero team work, fo course. But still I can talk about things which I don't see correct neither smart.

Let's just make sure that I understand your main points.

1. It needs to be free software or it will die. (There are top 10 coins where that is not true)

2. You only want to develop on it (You will be able to, soon)

Your argument is unsound and it seems like you are justifying a motive that you are not willing to reveal. Please, tell me why you need the code as free software other than to fork. Also, please do not repeat yourself.

Sorry but you did not understand. I don't have any specific personal interest on it. and you don't want to understand it. Not everyone do things just for direct, personal profit.

It looks you don't understand how important is the free software, not just for this project but for blockchain ecosystem. Dero can be Dero thanks to the free software, it's that simple. They forked Monero and they are copying/translating it now (in GoLang). I don't think it's fair.

Anyway, If you don't see the benefit of what I'm saying, just ignore me. That's enough from my side.

Hope official team think about this topic.

EDIT

Quote

2. You only want to develop on it (You will be able to, soon)

No, I won't until it's free. Same as I'm not developing on Microsoft nor Apple platforms.

krypt0id

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Activity: 148

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Quote from: MagicSmoker on April 03, 2018, 07:04:35 PM

Quote from: p4u on April 03, 2018, 07:08:18 PM

...
Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

This is a valid point, but it stills begs the question: WHY do YOU need to see the source code NOW? Can you not wait a few weeks? If not, then why not? I'm an EE and have had my work stolen/copied, so I tend to take a dim view of people that demand to see the intellectual property of others for no damn good reason, and you have not presented even a half-baked reason, much less a damn good one, why YOU are entitled to it.

So chill out and let the DERO team do what they do. So far they've been doing a helluva job, and I'm inclined to let them keep on keeping on.

Looks like you'r not understanding what I'm saying... I don't want to see the source code, I want it to be free software.

I let Dero team work, fo course. But still I can talk about things which I don't see correct neither smart.

Let's just make sure that I understand your main points.

1. It needs to be free software or it will die. (There are top 10 coins where that is not true)

2. You only want to develop on it (You will be able to, soon)

Your argument is unsound and it seems like you are justifying a motive that you are not willing to reveal. Please, tell me why you need the code as free software other than to fork. Also, please do not repeat yourself.

krypt0id

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Activity: 148

Merit: 2

Quote from: krypt0id on April 03, 2018, 06:59:32 PM

Quote from: MagicSmoker on April 03, 2018, 07:04:35 PM

Quote

I thought my implied point was clear - you haven't been participating in this thread UNTIL NOW. Your butthurt seems disingenuous, in other words.

Yes I get it! It's easier to destroy the credibility of someone rather than deal with his arguments.
I've not participated on this thread until I find it important to participate, same as everyone else!

Quote

So you say, but you also could have bought an old account to get more from sig campaigns and bounties without having to earn pesky merit...

Not the case, I've been in crypto since long ago, Easy to proof if I've to, but I don't find it necessary, my arguments in favor of Dero beeing free software are still valid.

Quote

Again with the butthurt. I have not always been a fan of CaptDero's terse and oblique ways - and I still call him out on it when appropriate now - but I also recognize that there is a small team behind DERO doing a tremendous amount of work. Why not give them a few more weeks or so to prove themselves worthy of our commitment rather than lambast them within days of releasing a complete rewrite of their blockchain?

Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

I just explained to you the reasons that your argument, especially at this point in time are null. If you have been in crypto since 2014 then you would agree it is a different atmosphere. A project (especially in it's infancy) protecting it's innovation isn't a bad thing or a kiss of death. Think of it this way, if you didn't think this was game changing, then you wouldn't be upset.

Give me some example where projects having a great idea, making real efforts and with good developers (three characteristics from Dero), have end up "death" by the kiss of a "fork".

Name a project that is not even 6 months old and there is "outrage" that it is not free software.

If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to hold it or mine it. You can simply leave.

p4u

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crypto lover

Quote from: krypt0id on April 03, 2018, 06:59:32 PM

...
Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

This is a valid point, but it stills begs the question: WHY do YOU need to see the source code NOW? Can you not wait a few weeks? If not, then why not? I'm an EE and have had my work stolen/copied, so I tend to take a dim view of people that demand to see the intellectual property of others for no damn good reason, and you have not presented even a half-baked reason, much less a damn good one, why YOU are entitled to it.

So chill out and let the DERO team do what they do. So far they've been doing a helluva job, and I'm inclined to let them keep on keeping on.

Looks like you'r not understanding what I'm saying... I don't want to see the source code, I want it to be free software.

I let Dero team work, fo course. But still I can talk about things which I don't see correct neither smart.

p4u

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

crypto lover

Quote

I thought my implied point was clear - you haven't been participating in this thread UNTIL NOW. Your butthurt seems disingenuous, in other words.

Yes I get it! It's easier to destroy the credibility of someone rather than deal with his arguments.
I've not participated on this thread until I find it important to participate, same as everyone else!

Quote

So you say, but you also could have bought an old account to get more from sig campaigns and bounties without having to earn pesky merit...

Not the case, I've been in crypto since long ago, Easy to proof if I've to, but I don't find it necessary, my arguments in favor of Dero beeing free software are still valid.

Quote

Again with the butthurt. I have not always been a fan of CaptDero's terse and oblique ways - and I still call him out on it when appropriate now - but I also recognize that there is a small team behind DERO doing a tremendous amount of work. Why not give them a few more weeks or so to prove themselves worthy of our commitment rather than lambast them within days of releasing a complete rewrite of their blockchain?

Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

I just explained to you the reasons that your argument, especially at this point in time are null. If you have been in crypto since 2014 then you would agree it is a different atmosphere. A project (especially in it's infancy) protecting it's innovation isn't a bad thing or a kiss of death. Think of it this way, if you didn't think this was game changing, then you wouldn't be upset.

Give me some example where projects having a great idea, making real efforts and with good developers (three characteristics from Dero), have end up "death" by the kiss of a "fork".

MagicSmoker

full member

Activity: 420

Merit: 184

...
Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

This is a valid point, but it stills begs the question: WHY do YOU need to see the source code NOW? Can you not wait a few weeks? If not, then why not? I'm an EE and have had my work stolen/copied, so I tend to take a dim view of people that demand to see the intellectual property of others for no damn good reason, and you have not presented even a half-baked reason, much less a damn good one, why YOU are entitled to it.

So chill out and let the DERO team do what they do. So far they've been doing a helluva job, and I'm inclined to let them keep on keeping on.

krypt0id

jr. member

Activity: 148

Merit: 2

Quote from: p4u on April 03, 2018, 06:04:12 PM

Quote

I thought my implied point was clear - you haven't been participating in this thread UNTIL NOW. Your butthurt seems disingenuous, in other words.

Yes I get it! It's easier to destroy the credibility of someone rather than deal with his arguments.
I've not participated on this thread until I find it important to participate, same as everyone else!

Quote

So you say, but you also could have bought an old account to get more from sig campaigns and bounties without having to earn pesky merit...

Not the case, I've been in crypto since long ago, Easy to proof if I've to, but I don't find it necessary, my arguments in favor of Dero beeing free software are still valid.

Quote

Again with the butthurt. I have not always been a fan of CaptDero's terse and oblique ways - and I still call him out on it when appropriate now - but I also recognize that there is a small team behind DERO doing a tremendous amount of work. Why not give them a few more weeks or so to prove themselves worthy of our commitment rather than lambast them within days of releasing a complete rewrite of their blockchain?

Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

I just explained to you the reasons that your argument, especially at this point in time are null. If you have been in crypto since 2014 then you would agree it is a different atmosphere. A project (especially in it's infancy) protecting it's innovation isn't a bad thing or a kiss of death. Think of it this way, if you didn't think this was game changing, then you wouldn't be upset.

ICOcountdown.com

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Activity: 1008

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I have created a telegram for DERO here is the link everyone: https://t.me/DEROCOIN

I have also invited the developers to join Cool

Very interesting programming and I like the project.

p4u

member

Activity: 111

Merit: 10

crypto lover

Quote

I thought my implied point was clear - you haven't been participating in this thread UNTIL NOW. Your butthurt seems disingenuous, in other words.

Yes I get it! It's easier to destroy the credibility of someone rather than deal with his arguments.
I've not participated on this thread until I find it important to participate, same as everyone else!

Quote

So you say, but you also could have bought an old account to get more from sig campaigns and bounties without having to earn pesky merit...

Not the case, I've been in crypto since long ago, Easy to proof if I've to, but I don't find it necessary, my arguments in favor of Dero beeing free software are still valid.

Quote

Again with the butthurt. I have not always been a fan of CaptDero's terse and oblique ways - and I still call him out on it when appropriate now - but I also recognize that there is a small team behind DERO doing a tremendous amount of work. Why not give them a few more weeks or so to prove themselves worthy of our commitment rather than lambast them within days of releasing a complete rewrite of their blockchain?

Again... if the project is free software and administrated as an open project, it'd receive the participation of other developers and it might create an ecosystem around it.

MagicSmoker

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Activity: 420

Merit: 184

Quote from: MagicSmoker on April 03, 2018, 05:54:34 PM

Quote from: p4u on April 03, 2018, 06:04:12 PM

That is horrible IMHO. This license is completelly not free software.

Looking at your post history I see virtually no activity between 2014 and now, so it seems more than a bit unusual for you to suddenly show up in the DERO ANN thread and start mouthing off like this. I'm one of the toughest customers around but even I'm finding your self-affront here massively overdone.

So what's your point? I'm kind of someone who wants to destroy Dero?

I thought my implied point was clear - you haven't been participating in this thread UNTIL NOW. Your butthurt seems disingenuous, in other words.

I'm mining Dero and I love the project (so much that I've come back to bitcointalk after so many time).

So you say, but you also could have bought an old account to get more from sig campaigns and bounties without having to earn pesky merit...

Quote from: p4u on April 03, 2018, 06:04:12 PM

I was very enthusiastic until I read the License... which I'm blaming cause it's a very bad idea, on my point of view. I want Dero surviving and strong in the long term, not abandoned cause the community has not taked ii.

Again with the butthurt. I have not always been a fan of CaptDero's terse and oblique ways - and I still call him out on it when appropriate now - but I also recognize that there is a small team behind DERO doing a tremendous amount of work. Why not give them a few more weeks or so to prove themselves worthy of our commitment rather than lambast them within days of releasing a complete rewrite of their blockchain?

krypt0id

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Activity: 148

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Quote from: p4u on April 03, 2018, 06:32:44 PM

Quote from: krypt0id on April 03, 2018, 06:18:53 PM

Quote from: cpmcgrat on April 03, 2018, 06:15:06 PM

Quote from: krypt0id on April 03, 2018, 06:18:53 PM

Do you think someone smart would invest in a project that depends 100% of a closed group of people? So, if Serena and CaptainDero stop their activity the code will be not longer maintained thus the token living inside the blockchain would end up not valuable at all.

Agree on this point. There's loads of examples where the original devs got tied up in another project/new job and had to drop their cryptocurrency project. Following this on open source coins the community can pick up development, sometimes to greater success than the original team. It is a great way to ensure future-proofing and availability of the currency. Why not open for external review (will make the code better undoubtedly) and allow faster iteration through PRs and community engagement.

Code is open for external review. The source code isn't out on the alpha only. You can see the rest of the code and compile yourself. You just can't use it freely for your own project.

edit : Funny how the "angry free software" guys come out every time dero releases something new or proves it's resilience to attacks.

edit 2 : If the devs abandon the project, then that would be valid to say they need to make it free software for it to survive.

Then it might be too late for asking it, this is why I'm asking right now.

Smart contracts aren't going to be available for a while and the devs have a lot more foot work for the platform in general. I'm just as anxious as anyone but it's just not ready yet. Seeing the posts from the dev team, I highly doubt they would walk away, let alone walk away without changing the license if needed.

I would rather them work in peace without the fear of some other project cutting their throat with their own hard work.

p4u

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Quote from: cpmcgrat on April 03, 2018, 06:15:06 PM

Quote from: krypt0id on April 03, 2018, 06:16:55 PM

Do you think someone smart would invest in a project that depends 100% of a closed group of people? So, if Serena and CaptainDero stop their activity the code will be not longer maintained thus the token living inside the blockchain would end up not valuable at all.

Agree on this point. There's loads of examples where the original devs got tied up in another project/new job and had to drop their cryptocurrency project. Following this on open source coins the community can pick up development, sometimes to greater success than the original team. It is a great way to ensure future-proofing and availability of the currency. Why not open for external review (will make the code better undoubtedly) and allow faster iteration through PRs and community engagement.

Code is open for external review. The source code isn't out on the alpha only. You can see the rest of the code and compile yourself. You just can't use it freely for your own project.

edit : Funny how the "angry free software" guys come out every time dero releases something new or proves it's resilience to attacks.

edit 2 : If the devs abandon the project, then that would be valid to say they need to make it free software for it to survive.

Then it might be too late for asking it, this is why I'm asking right now.

p4u

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Quote from: cpmcgrat on April 03, 2018, 06:15:06 PM

That is horrible IMHO. This license is completelly not free software.

In hand you are getting the profit from free software like BitCoin (the whole idea), CryptoNote, ByteCoin and Monero. Without them you would have need much more time (maybe 100 years!) to get to the point where you are now in the development.
But in the other hand you are breaking with the free software chain and releasing your new code as non free, so it can only be used for research (WTF?).

That means something, dero team, you are doing this just for your own profit, not for the innovation or advance of blockchain related technologies. That's not the crypto thinking way I'd support.

Still I don't understand what are you afraid of? What's the thing? Someone will make a fork and release a new coin, so what? You are the trusted developers and you will have always the first position on this field, unless you loose it by doing stupid things. Look at Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, IOTA and so on.

Finally I would honestly suggest you to rethink about this matter. Release the DeroSuit as free software (GPLv3 or AGPLv3), then your 2 Milion premined coins wiill worth something one day.

Just went over this... a few posts ago. You sound like you want to fork the project. There's not a need for it to be free software yet anyway. You can always go from closed to open but you can't go back. At this point in time, making a coin that is this unique with this much work put into it, in the current coin fork atmosphere we have in crypto, would be suicide before it is established.

Every coin you mentioned has been forked to no end (except for IOTA, for good reason). They can take forks since they have been established. There is no point crying about it not being free software at this stage unless you plan on making copy pasta.

I don't want to fork dero, I want to use it and to develop on top of it. I want to see it working with smart contracts support! But this is not the way the project will achieve success.

Edit: it was not a suicide for Ethereum (to say one) cause people follow trusted developers, not crypto yonkies.

krypt0id

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Activity: 148

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Do you think someone smart would invest in a project that depends 100% of a closed group of people? So, if Serena and CaptainDero stop their activity the code will be not longer maintained thus the token living inside the blockchain would end up not valuable at all.

Agree on this point. There's loads of examples where the original devs got tied up in another project/new job and had to drop their cryptocurrency project. Following this on open source coins the community can pick up development, sometimes to greater success than the original team. It is a great way to ensure future-proofing and availability of the currency. Why not open for external review (will make the code better undoubtedly) and allow faster iteration through PRs and community engagement.

Code is open for external review. The source code isn't out on the alpha only. You can see the rest of the code and compile yourself. You just can't use it freely for your own project.

edit : Funny how the "angry free software" guys come out every time dero releases something new or proves it's resilience to attacks.

edit 2 : If the devs abandon the project, then that would be valid to say they need to make it free software for it to survive.

krypt0id

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Activity: 148

Merit: 2

That is horrible IMHO. This license is completelly not free software.

In hand you are getting the profit from free software like BitCoin (the whole idea), CryptoNote, ByteCoin and Monero. Without them you would have need much more time (maybe 100 years!) to get to the point where you are now in the development.
But in the other hand you are breaking with the free software chain and releasing your new code as non free, so it can only be used for research (WTF?).

That means something, dero team, you are doing this just for your own profit, not for the innovation or advance of blockchain related technologies. That's not the crypto thinking way I'd support.

Still I don't understand what are you afraid of? What's the thing? Someone will make a fork and release a new coin, so what? You are the trusted developers and you will have always the first position on this field, unless you loose it by doing stupid things. Look at Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, IOTA and so on.

Finally I would honestly suggest you to rethink about this matter. Release the DeroSuit as free software (GPLv3 or AGPLv3), then your 2 Milion premined coins wiill worth something one day.

Just went over this... a few posts ago. You sound like you want to fork the project. There's not a need for it to be free software yet anyway. You can always go from closed to open but you can't go back. At this point in time, making a coin that is this unique with this much work put into it, in the current coin fork atmosphere we have in crypto, would be suicide before it is established.

Every coin you mentioned has been forked to no end (except for IOTA, for good reason). They can take forks since they have been established. There is no point crying about it not being free software at this stage unless you plan on making copy pasta.

cpmcgrat

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Activity: 223

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DCAB

Do you think someone smart would invest in a project that depends 100% of a closed group of people? So, if Serena and CaptainDero stop their activity the code will be not longer maintained thus the token living inside the blockchain would end up not valuable at all.

Agree on this point. There's loads of examples where the original devs got tied up in another project/new job and had to drop their cryptocurrency project. Following this on open source coins the community can pick up development, sometimes to greater success than the original team. It is a great way to ensure future-proofing and availability of the currency. Why not open for external review (will make the code better undoubtedly) and allow faster iteration through PRs and community engagement.

cpmcgrat

member

Activity: 223

Merit: 21

DCAB

Quote from: MagicSmoker on April 03, 2018, 05:54:34 PM

That is horrible IMHO. This license is completelly not free software.

In hand you are getting the profit from free software like BitCoin (the whole idea), CryptoNote, ByteCoin and Monero. Without them you would have need much more time (maybe 100 years!) to get to the point where you are now in the development.
But in the other hand you are breaking with the free software chain and releasing your new code as non free, so it can only be used for research (WTF?).

That means something, dero team, you are doing this just for your own profit, not for the innovation or advance of blockchain related technologies. That's not the crypto thinking way I'd support.

Still I don't understand what are you afraid of? What's the thing? Someone will make a fork and release a new coin, so what? You are the trusted developers and you will have always the first position on this field, unless you loose it by doing stupid things. Look at Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, IOTA and so on.

Finally I would honestly suggest you to rethink about this matter. Release the DeroSuit as free software (GPLv3 or AGPLv3), then your 2 Milion premined coins wiill worth something one day.

I'm going to have to agree with p4u here. As someone working in a datacenter security startup it is vital to understand that having first mover advantage while helping move the space forward for a specific subset it vital for company legitimacy and trust. It doesn't matter if the code is shared and someone re-purposes it, since the Dero team will always be able to iterate faster than the the person using the codebase since the dero team wrote it.

p4u

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Quote from: Razkor999 on April 03, 2018, 05:48:40 PM

That is horrible IMHO. This license is completelly not free software.

Looking at your post history I see virtually no activity between 2014 and now, so it seems more than a bit unusual for you to suddenly show up in the DERO ANN thread and start mouthing off like this. I'm one of the toughest customers around but even I'm finding your self-affront here massively overdone.

So what's your point? I'm kind of someone who wants to destroy Dero?

I'm mining Dero and I love the project (so much that I've come back to bitcointalk after so many time). I think SmartContracts + CryptoNote Privacy is the way to go, a very important missing technology for the success of the blockchain, distributed systems and socity in general.

I was very enthusiastic until I read the License... which I'm blaming cause it's a very bad idea, on my point of view. I want Dero surviving and strong in the long term, not abandoned cause the community has not taked ii.

p4u

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Quote from: MagicSmoker on April 03, 2018, 05:34:07 PM

Quote from: MedunInfo on April 03, 2018, 05:05:36 PM

Quote from: --Serena-- on April 03, 2018, 04:00:52 PM

The source code will be released soon

I downloaded from http://seeds.dero.io/alpha/ the wallet supports: dero_windows_amd64.zip and dero_windows_x86.zip, (no matter). Up to now, I have already (existing) DERO wallet which is not synchronized anymore. When I run, for example, dero-wallet-cli-windows-amd64.exe, then after "open existing wallet" option, I was asked about the wallet filename (default wallet.db). Unfortunately, I don't find the wallet.db file anywhere in my previous user-friendly skin DeroWallet_Win64_v0.0.3 folder.

Does it mean that, unfortunately, I completely lost all coins what I have in the previous wallet and I have to create a new fresh wallet in a new command-line skin? Or I can somehow recover and return my previous mining founds?

You need to select the option, "recover wallet using recovery seed (25 words)" from the wallet-cli menu. You should have written down your 25 word recovery seed when you first created your wallet using the old wallet-cli, but if you didn't there is a command to get the seed from it (I don't remember the exact command and I already deleted the old wallet-cli).

See my previous post where I went through much the same thing as you: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.33402693

Pipe down man ffs, it's a few devs working their nuts off trying to get this straightened out for everyone.
I'm sure all the boring code you want to scrutinize will be available in good time.

Give them chance.

It's few developers cause they are NOT releasing the code as free software. That makes a crypto project weak and with high probability of failure.

Do you think someone smart would invest in a project that depends 100% of a closed group of people? So, if Serena and CaptainDero stop their activity the code will be not longer maintained thus the token living inside the blockchain would end up not valuable at all.

MagicSmoker

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