Topic: [ANN] ¤ DMD Diamond 3.0 | Scarce ¤ Valuable ¤ Secure | PoS 3.0 | Masternodes 65% - page 596. (Read 1260677 times)

i dont expect a lot of u are close to graz austria

but there tomorrow u can meet me

http://cointalk.at/ for people in or around graz (austria) a interesting event 03.02.2015
3. Februar 2015, 18:30 im Spacelend Graz Cointalk
Was ist der Wert von Bitcoin? Bitcoin zwischen Keynes und Österreichischer Schule Organized by http://www.coinassociation.eu/

i hate to explain stupid  
but after a few atempts i will find words that everyone understand

option 1. contribute

lend dmd for 12 months to reactor and get nothing in return
beside the additional DMD from reactor staking that ur existing dmd cloud shares qualify u
(but people who dont lend and have cloudmining shares would profite too from reactor)
at end of 12 months foundation will offer u a bounty to leave them in reactor for other 12 months
or u decide against it and get ur coins back

option 2. invest

ur dmd converted btc value and that converted to $ value and for each 1 $ value u get 1 dmd cloud share


both options are not great investment opportunity but supportive act for dmd cloudmining

I hate to appear stupid but I really am utterly confused.  If someone else can explain in terms simpler I might be easier to relate.  Before was easy.  Buy (3) slots at 1500 dmd earn 200%.  That I understood.  Now I am confused.  First, I can lend 1500 dmd and earn shares from this and get my 1500 DMD back after a finite amount of time?  Do I have that correct?  If so what is the rate of return the reactor is paying out?  Second, if I invest in cloud mining using DMD I am purchasing shares that will pay me like I am being paid currently?  At the same rate related to BTC value correct?  So in essence I think I am getting lost on how investing in the overall reactor v2 helps the overall value grow.  I think that is where I am getting lost.  Can someone please explain that portion to me or all of it if I have the others wrong.  Sorry for the difficulty.

for now we have "lend" coins

30k helmut/cryptonit
1.5k chilo

and invested coins

1.5k big_coins


(we only accept coins send once its clear we launch it)

so that surprise me  
but if all that loudest reactor v1 opposition act this way im very happy

invest = convert DMD towards dmd cloudminig shares?

1500 x 0,00050 btc = 0,75 btc x 230 = 172,5 dmd cloudmining shares
(that will change with actual prices just as example)

-----
 or u want to lend reactor the 1500 for 12 months as contribution

DMD Multipool/Cloudmining LOTTO January winner!

http://www.win2day.at/gaming/RundenPlakat_wai.jsp

joker 909301

100 DMD goes towards:

dNY*******************ZoC   2015-01-28   909070

i will invest 1500 dmd helmut, let me know address to send

let me think a bit
how about a mix?

people are allowed to invest with dmd as i decribed
and people are allowed contribute by lend DMD
without earn shares

in that case i would borrow my 30k
u would borrow ur 1,5k

some other people might invest with dmd (as already in the past someone wanted to do and i answered it make no sence )

and we could set up a new referral reward system that fill dmd into reactor and reward referrer with shares of that dmd $ value

and we could place some of new invested/reinvested btc into direct buypressure for buy reactor DMD

thats sounds good to me

but we need to create some base amount of coins in reactor


we should define a  locked time example 12 months
and once the time runs out foundation depending on the financial situation then
might consider give people who lock them for another 12 months some kind of reward
but for first round this lend coins will generate no rewards
beside that which u get for owning cloud shares and their part of reactor generated earnings

its called contribution and not investment
i was hoping for some bigger help from community to fill reactor

for now we have "lend" coins

30k helmut/cryptonit
1.5k chilo

Hi cryptonit

I'm not sure I understand either.

Is your proposal just to buy cloudmining shares using DMD? I don't want to sell any DMD, but would contribute to reactor wallet for other reasons (network security etc) if they exist.

Otherwise I would just slowly continue to invest separately in cloudmining.

chilo


I just reread your post and I'm still not sure. What happens to your 30k DMD in the future?
Again I'm willing to put 1500 in reactor for no personal gain as long as I can have them back at some future point ie I still own them.

chilo im not sure i understand u

the idea i presented was that people get cloudmining shares for their DMD

what u get with ur idea?
u place 1500 dmd in reactor but get no shares but after x months u get 1500 back?

so this way u describe it u would get some rewards back because u own cloudmining shares already and that shares would profit from reactor generated pos earnings

hmmmmm do u think that is better?
for me it would be ok too follow ur idea
whatever solution find a majority that create and fill a mighty reactor

what other people think

and please if now people start to criticize us because we stopped original reactor plan
(which i would prefer abouve all this no wallet code impact solutions)

then really i feel in a lose-lose situation

whatever we do we get criticized
no fun to work under that conditions

but depending of the outcome of the business talks alex runs about some great possible project
the return to original plan might be impossible (incompatible/inapplicable)

so lets keep brainstorming about a no wallet code changing required reactor solution

i hope people understand the main aim why i want to add this additional pillar to dmd cloudmining

because if dmd value raise a lot
earnings a reactor produce will be unchained in power
while all btc -> dmd buypower then lost a lot in coingeneration power for investors

and that value will raise that is in my opinion certain

that additional reactor shorten available DMD and protect networks with big 24/7 wallet
and create additional buypower to have dmd to invest are additional reason

Good points Boffin1818.

I would also like to say that Diamond Cloud Mining has been set up for the purpose of supporting Diamond and not as a tool to enrich us.
Neither Helmut not anyone else is paid for running this service. The 3% bonus shares are put aside as Foundation Stash to be used at a later date.
At the moment it's worth nothing but in the future if the project and the service are successful this could replace Foundation Contributions when the block reduction happens.

On the other hand, we do have to pay (real money) for the upkeep of every server and we do pay out of our own pockets every month.
None of the foundation coins were ever converted to pay for any of it.

Diamond Cloud Mining and Diamond Multipool are Diamond's key services at its very heart.
It's run on not for profit basis. So calling it a private business is wrong. A lot of Diamond's funds went into creating this important service and I refuse to accept some of the accusations/assertions.

I think people should 'deal' with it somehow and understand that all we do is for Diamond and not ourselves .. because Diamond's success is our success and that's what we're aiming for.



It looks like a 'win' but the truth is that our lame excuse to change the plans because something else came up is real.

The above post from Boffin1818 is great. I have noticed the quiet on this thread since the loudest reactor detractors have had their say and (apparant) win.

cryptonit, I will put 1500 DMD in a wallet to stake at normal rate for payout in cloudmining shares. My one condition is that I'm not selling those 1500 DMD and can have them back later in 12/18/24  or other months.
The purpose is for network security right?

If the purpose is solely to support cloudmining, I will just continue to buy shares separately.

Regarding a referral program, I have neither the time or inclination to be involved.

Perhaps if we provide some great reward, we may find one of the guys with great reactor objections can sell a product/service?

Regards

chilo

So you think its okay for the people who run this coin to set up a cloudmining service which they also run and profit from, then change the currency mechanics to offer a higher reward for the people who invest in their service?  Your argument is we can all invest in this scheme to enrich the people who run the cloudmining service and the currency at the same time?  You see no conlfict of interest in this?

Anyone could have set up the cloudmining project,  anyone can take BTC and convert them to DMD.   Helmut/Cryptonit set the service up to control a portion of the buy pressure.  Providing continued, controlled, and stable buying, remember that word used STABLIZATION.  I am fairly certain any profit that is generated is put into more buy pressure and put into the currency stabilization mechanics.  The service and buy pressure on DMD are clearly shown, no one argues that point at all.  I view the service as a needed resource until the time of more adoption occurs with the coin.  Remember the Dev Teams coin ROLL OUT PLAN.   It is planly clear your view of the project is from a pure skeptic who wants nothing to do with the project and your risk tolerance is minimal at best assumption.   No one should invest $$$ they 100% cannot lose or view as a no return loss.   SO you shouldn’t be rewarded and stick with the vanilla plan and continue mining the coin.  
Where is the conflict of interest? My interest lays that same as the DEV team.  Helmut, and the entire DEV team want the coin to become a success as do ALL OF US WHO MINE, HORDE it and would like to acquire more.   Not simply dump it.   I am sure Helmut is not going to put himself out on LinkedIn as he has to "sucker people"....  I think his intentions are bigger and he appears to want more from the coin.
  
Like I said earlier, if the cloudmining operators want to give a higher reward for Cloudmining investors they should take it out of their own pockets.  Changing the rules of the currency to attract investors because they can is just plain unethical.  

Define for me how the rules are changing?  POS in a one off special wallet that runs at 200% that is open to everyone and provides incentive to apply buying pressure to the coin.  Remember they stated the first round would go to cloudmining investors.  WHAT IS THE HARM HERE?   Why should the DEV team come out of pocket for this?  Who in the community is the reactor hurting?  The investors are given a bigger proportion of reward to risk the ones providing the buying pressure.   POS coin plan also meets the dev teams time table.

And for the record, I can afford to invest in cloudmining but I choose not to.  Its equally interesting to see the ones who support this scheme the most are the ones who invested in Cloudmining and benefit the most.

Key wording in this is YOU CHOOSE NOT TO. But you stomp your feet and cry foul if people who did invest are given priority in a line.  Life in general is a collection of choices,  If the coin turns out to be a very successful project and everyone here is rewarded by there efforts you will be one of the first people to think back and wish you had done more to generate a better return.   GREED IS GOOD.

At the time being though how is the DEV team and all the work they are doing rewarded?  
Helmut has been nothing but open and honest about the cloudmining Service.  I see DMD hit my wallet on a daily basis from cloudminig.  But I also am not as guarded and risk intolerant.  Again CHOICE.
  

 

john it seems u not understand how things are connected to each other

hybrid  POW/POS security work same strong no matter of POW reward reduction

there is no shift from one to the other

the way how hybrid block generation secure the chain is that noone is able build a longer chain just with one way of generating blocks

there wont be any major change in coin rollout plan

what might happen is that we reduce POS blocktime from 600 to 300 sec
which would lead to half minting diff faster claim ur above 30 days coinage pos
for rare minter
for 24/7 minter it change nothing just more pos blocks but all together create same rewards as now

beside that nothing will be changed (in that part of code at actual knowledge)

i want to hear feedback from other people and dont create here a privat dicussion if u have more questions PM me

also my focus is now gather responses for the new wallet code independant reactor as additional pillar of dmd cloudmining

dont mix that up with wallet code topics


edit:

IMPORTANT is to understand minting after 30 days of coin age is the normal case and not minting after 7 days......
the split stake that happens between 7-30 days coin age is happening to break large coin pile into smaller parts
and to make sure there is always enought coin pile compete for POS blocks in network

the work against this mechanics by (ab)use the advanced "coin control" tool is not the way how this tool is meant to be used

i understand that lot other pos coins are such bad designed that there always only split stake happens and that force people to use "coin control" to avoid dust filled wallets

but that is not the case for DMD Diamond

You have stated this in many previous posts that when PoW reward reduction occurs we will be extremely dependent on PoS and that there are not as many utilizing PoS as were expected.  This "Flaw" I am taking advantage of in PoS nets me more profit (Don't deny u also want profit LOL)  I do not think the existing PoS rules are going to create enough network traffic at that time.  Time to reconsider both PoS block time and PoW reward reduction, maybe halving instead of 1/10.
Realisticly how many miners do you think will keep mining at 0.1 DMD reward?  essentially we will be pure PoS with a tiny amount of PoW ...

john where u come to that conclusions?


yes everyone know and thats the reason why we are a hybrid POW/POS coin
that pow and pos as single source of blocks are a security risc

only unbeliveable hashrate like BTC have can make a pure pow coin secure

we are a hybrid coin we solved that flaws

So PoS is flawed and can be manipulated   All the greater reason to keep PoW alive also ...

i dont consider u as potential investor via DMD

as decribed it would be a supportive act and not a primary profit gain motivated one

it would earn back its DMD but need like 12-18 months to achive this and after that start the earning phase

keep ur coins staking in ur own wallet will give u more gains

that is why im not asking for investors but for contribution via DMD

all the contribution i can expect from u is applaud that someone else sacrifice maximum profit for himself to secure profit for all cloudmining investors

it wouldnt replace the way dmd cloudmining works it just add one more pillar of spread income sources
and this one would be total independent from btc value and gain streangh when dmdm value raise while all other income sources lose strengh when dmd value raises

ur 7.1% number is total wrong


1000x0.5/12=41,66 POS reward stake once a month (30 days)

or weekly stake rewards for 30 days:

1000x0.5/12/30x7=9.72
1009,72x0.5/12/30x7=9,81
1019,53x0.5/12/30x7=9,91
1029,44x0.5/12/30x7=10,01
1039,45x0.5/12/30x2=2,88
                               -------
                               42,33


42,33/41,66=1,016

so u earn by trick the system and always create big piles and 7 days stake 1,6% rewards
but this 1.6% are fast reduced to nothing or even worse than let it stake on its own when us destroy coin-age by combining pile
but u might also create a nothing to stake problem in network if everyone would act this way

let the POS run without interaction from user is the suggestion i can give
and not always try to optimize personal gain and dont care for the important fact that
lot coin pile compete for pos blocks is a major security factor
                              

I still do not see any advantage to myself to invest any more into cloudmining unless it is managed as I suggested here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10334515
And the PoS profits paid out to cloudmining share holders as additional reward besides normal 70%/30% split reward/reinvest ...