[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1265.

lonsharim

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: dabosshun on January 30, 2014, 07:23:49 AM

Thanks for the answer!

But how about the other one: When will this coin be released (not the Test stuff)?

That's going to take sometime judging by the timelines we have seen already. Previously it was a 2 months IPO (between 1st Feb and March end) after which mining could be done and coins could be exchanged etc. Now that the IPO has been delayed we will have the see the new terms of the IPO when it is announced.

FreeTrade

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1030

Quote from: gutshot5820 on January 30, 2014, 05:45:49 AM

Lets put the fundraiser in simple terms that everyone can understand. Everyone should agree agree that all investments should have a proper risk/reward ratio. This project itself has a lot of risk and potentially a lot of reward, so neither can outweigh the other. Now lets look at this objectively from that perspective.

Ethereum project;
Risk = Very High
Reward = Very High

Founders;
Risk = 0%
Reward=100%

Early adopters;
Risk = 100%
Reward = ?

Put that on a graph. Does that seem like a fair transaction to you?

Hmmm - I'm reminded a little of Dragon's Den - The entrepreneur asks for a big investment. The dragons ask what it will be used for. The entrepreneur says 'to pay myself a big salary'. The dragon says 'I'm out'.

I want to see the devs with skin in the game - if their project fails, they shouldn't be sitting on a big BTC cushion.

dabosshun

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: _ingsoc on January 30, 2014, 05:57:52 AM

Quote from: dabosshun on January 30, 2014, 05:41:59 AM

When will they release this coin? What does "Test Release" means? Tongue

Testnet means we can mess around with Ethereum (incomplete) without any of it being "real". So you can download the code, do stuff, possibly even mine, but none of it has any "value". That's on mainnet.

Thanks for the answer!

But how about the other one: When will this coin be released (not the Test stuff)?

KoinMaster

sr. member

Activity: 323

Merit: 250

Quote from: lonsharim on January 30, 2014, 06:44:52 AM

This really cracks me up

Quote

And because somebody says something this doesn't make it true.

What don't you believe? Charles telling in the video that a couple of guys working on the project used to work for GS in the past or Charles categorically stating on the thread that GS has nothing to do with Ethereum or both?

What this proves is that there is a little bit of trust deficit especially as you are evaluating whether or not to invest your hard earned money. Ultimately nothing anyone is going to say to you is going to make any difference because there will always be a lingering doubt. You have had explicit clarifications from the man in the video himself. There is no real way to solve this other than accepting that the man is telling the truth. If you don't believe and GS bothers you so much then there is only one recourse - don't risk it man.

The sentence you are quoting from me refers to the status quo before Charles' recent statement here on this forum about no GS-connection. I will probably invest in ETH, but not before asking hard questions and not letting been shut up before I get satisfactory answers to them.

FreeTrade

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1030

Do I understand correctly that there is a 75% premine on Ethereum?

25% for devs that can't be spent for a year
50% for a foundation

Do I understand furthermore that the Bitcoin raised is going to pay Dev salaries, so if the whole thing blows up - the devs and staff still get paid?

KoinMaster

sr. member

Activity: 323

Merit: 250

Quote from: _ingsoc on January 30, 2014, 06:07:25 AM

Quote from: KoinMaster on January 30, 2014, 06:04:08 AM

Cool down man! Please don't try to suggest that we were the ones who brought up the GS connection. If Charles hadn't mention it in the introductory video, we wouldn't be speaking about it. And because somebody says something this doesn't make it true. You should know that. We need convincing, open and honest communication.

Oh my God, are you kidding me? Can we just put the Goldman Sachs logo on the back of one of those t-shirt designs? If this is the average Bitcointalk user's reasoning, we are doomed. GMO got to you.

Personal attacks won't shut me up, so you might want to reconsider your communication strategy.

lonsharim

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

This really cracks me up

Quote

And because somebody says something this doesn't make it true.

What don't you believe? Charles telling in the video that a couple of guys working on the project used to work for GS in the past or Charles categorically stating on the thread that GS has nothing to do with Ethereum or both?

What this proves is that there is a little bit of trust deficit especially as you are evaluating whether or not to invest your hard earned money. Ultimately nothing anyone is going to say to you is going to make any difference because there will always be a lingering doubt. You have had explicit clarifications from the man in the video himself. There is no real way to solve this other than accepting that the man is telling the truth. If you don't believe and GS bothers you so much then there is only one recourse - don't risk it man.

_ingsoc

sr. member

Activity: 452

Merit: 251

Quote from: KoinMaster on January 30, 2014, 06:04:08 AM

Cool down man! Please don't try to suggest that we were the ones who brought up the GS connection. If Charles hadn't mention it in the introductory video, we wouldn't be speaking about it. And because somebody says something this doesn't make it true. You should know that. We need convincing, open and honest communication.

Oh my God, are you kidding me? Can we just put the Goldman Sachs logo on the back of one of those t-shirt designs? If this is the average Bitcointalk user's reasoning, we are doomed. GMO got to you.

KoinMaster

sr. member

Activity: 323

Merit: 250

Quote from: _ingsoc on January 30, 2014, 04:10:57 AM

Quote from: KoinMaster on January 30, 2014, 04:03:26 AM

Thanks Charles for this reply, the community has been waiting for this statement for almost a week now. No one questing the financial expertise of GS. The question is what are they using it for?

The answer: To control/screw/scam people, the market, the little guy, and also countries....

The best example is Greece. Goldman Sachs has been advising Greece to join the euro, despite the fact that they knew Greece was cooking its books/budget number. In fact GS helped Greece in cooking its budget and hide it's true national debt level. Then, after that country joined the Euro, they were secretly betting on its default.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-02-25-bernanke-fed-greece_N.htm

And this is only one evil deed from Goldman Sachs. There are hundreds of more.

Does the Ethereum Project really wants to be associated with such a parasitic entity?

These are the facts...

Will this information make a difference for you guys at Ethereum?

Only you could tell......

How many times do they need to say there is no Goldman Sachs connection? 90+% of this forum would benefit greatly from taking comprehension classes. Every freakin' post has some tie to Goldman Sachs, when if you just read through the information and go back to the source you'd realise it's totally stupid.

Cool down man! Please don't try to suggest that we were the ones who brought up the GS connection. If Charles hadn't mention it in the introductory video, we wouldn't be speaking about it. And because somebody says something this doesn't make it true. You should know that. We need convincing, open and honest communication.

_ingsoc

sr. member

Activity: 452

Merit: 251

Quote from: kcirazy on January 30, 2014, 05:38:28 AM

Since the fundraiser is now delayed and a testnet will be run first, the discussion about that seems to be unnecessary. So lets focus on the technical aspects and development for now.

It's kind of like a hostage situation when people are unhappy with terms. They won't commit their ideas to the actual project until the demands on both sides can find balance. For some people that balance never comes, but there's obviously a large percentage of people who post here who are unhappy with what's been proposed in exchange for their Bitcoin and won't release their thoughts to Ethereum even though they're interested (therefore holding their energy hostage before spending it on the project constructively).

The delayed fundraiser has put the thought in their minds that the terms may be under review, so they've cooled it a bit. I don't know if that's actually the case, so we wait and see.

_ingsoc

sr. member

Activity: 452

Merit: 251

Quote from: dabosshun on January 30, 2014, 05:41:59 AM

When will they release this coin? What does "Test Release" means? Tongue

Testnet means we can mess around with Ethereum (incomplete) without any of it being "real". So you can download the code, do stuff, possibly even mine, but none of it has any "value". That's on mainnet.

_ingsoc

sr. member

Activity: 452

Merit: 251

Quote from: gutshot5820 on January 30, 2014, 05:28:59 AM

They need to offer more ETH per bitcoin, lower the MAX to an acceptable level and therefore the pre-mine. And lower their shares of the coin to a level that doesn't reflect a persona of greed. If they are right and follow through, they can still be multi-millionaires by changing the structure in a way that it is not overly diluted and fair and equitable to early investors. The way is is structured now, they are punishing you for being an early adopter and instantly becoming wealthy without any risk at all.

Quote from: gutshot5820 on January 30, 2014, 05:45:49 AM

Lets put the fundraiser in simple terms that everyone can understand. Everyone should agree agree that all investments should have a proper risk/reward ratio. This project itself has a lot of risk and potentially a lot of reward, so neither can outweigh the other. Now lets look at this objectively from that perspective.

Ethereum project;
Risk = Very High
Reward = Very High

Founders;
Risk = 0%
Reward=100%

Early adopters;
Risk = 100%
Reward = ?

Put that on a graph. Does that seem like a fair transaction to you?

I like you a lot more when you don't tell me to kill myself. Cheesy

I'm quoting you because this is the essence of what you've been getting at in all your ramblings, and I think these are fair concerns.

gutshot5820

full member

Activity: 364

Merit: 100

Lets put the fundraiser in simple terms that everyone can understand. Everyone should agree agree that all investments should have a proper risk/reward ratio. This project itself has a lot of risk and potentially a lot of reward, so neither can outweigh the other. Now lets look at this objectively from that perspective.

Ethereum project;
Risk = Very High
Reward = Very High

Founders;
Risk = 0%
Reward=100%

Early adopters;
Risk = 100%
Reward = ?

Put that on a graph. Does that seem like a fair transaction to you?

dabosshun

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

When will they release this coin? What does "Test Release" means? Tongue

jsteelbeam

newbie

Activity: 22

Merit: 0

kcirazy

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

Since the fundraiser is now delayed and a testnet will be run first, the discussion about that seems to be unnecessary. So lets focus on the technical aspects and development for now.

Herp

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

This plan is at least 1 year away from coming to market while other 2.0s are already here almost. Mastercoin will launch a distributed exchange very soon, in testing phase atm. When that comes, the early adopter advantage will be too powerful for competition to easily overcome.

Also, keep in mind that protoshare devs warned against use of Turing and they've probably had their reasons. They saw all sorts of problems arousing from that. So probably getting such system right from scratch in 1 year is optimistic to say the least.

A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush I'd say.

gutshot5820

full member

Activity: 364

Merit: 100

lonsharim

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote

A turing complete language for the script language sounds academic to me. It would require a lot of limitations to make sure people are not putting malicious code into their transactions.

Sure there would be limitations. It cannot work in any other way. I will assume this will have to run within some sort of sandbox. I speculate that apart from interacting with well defined objects within the platform it will be able to do little else.

Look at Javascript today, it runs in your browser with restrictions, i.e. it can do web related tasks but not others like creating files or accessing file systems. That is called a limitation. It is also constrained by scope, so cannot be privy to information between your browser and another site. That is also a limitation.

With a turing complete language you can expect such restrictions, without them you will have security nightmares, likely still have little loopholes that will have to be plugged along the way while the system itself matures.

xibeijan

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1001

I am not convinced by this project.

A turing complete language for the script language sounds academic to me. It would require a lot of limitations to make sure people are not putting malicious code into their transactions.

Also, if we decide it's worth the risk, where do we invest?

All I could find on the top of this thread is this

Quote

"Early investors for taking a great risk due to the uncertainty of investment will be rewarded by a bonus of 2*initial investment for the first week and then this bonus decays by 2 percent per day for the remainder of the fundraiser until it reaches a floor of the base exchange rate of 0.001 BTC per 1 Ether"

But now even that has been removed...

Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1265. (Read 2007155 times)