Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 1265. (Read 2006044 times)

Thanks for showing up everyone! It was really nice seeing so many of you at the protest today. We really put a lot of pressure on this GS-Ethereum deal. Power to the people!

http://cphpost.dk/news/2-500-protest-against-goldman-sachs-deal.8473.html

don't know where the hype for turing completeness is coming from but it is much more difficult, to find
a language (or even sub-language) which is NOT turing complete in reference to it's usage design.
anyway, the by far much more interesting question is how this semi-smart-code is sandboxed efficently
without loosing to much functionality. i doubt, using the current browser (javasrcipt) sandboxing as
a blueprint will work in a solid way. instead reducing the language to gain security the other way around
should be considered too. giving the code self-reflection/modifying capabilities could solve this. the best
language combination from my pov would be erlang (self-healing nodes, nearly unbreakable once running)
as bc carrier and lisp/scheme (self-modifiable) to add logic on top. in this combination you have ultra-tons of
turing completeness if you in the need...   

^This.

But seriously, Turing complete means that Ethereum will essentially be a full programming language, which can do anything that a full programming language can do. As opposed to Bitcoin, which can only do certain things as defined by its protocol--which was intentionally limited by Satoshi.

sure:

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ok ill bite, can someone explain just what exactly all this "turing-complete" compatible IS and how it works?  Explain it to the level of someone with a BS in IT and who has worked professionally in IT for 20 years as a network tech

I may be completely wrong here but I believe that the issuance model will be further tweaked and balanced before the IPO's new date is announced. Eventually no matter what the model is, it is not going to satisfy each and everyone of us. That I am pretty sure of. For sure as potential investors we would like more clarity and hopefully more balanced terms. Only time will tell but we must give them that opportunity before we start questioning their honesty. That's how I feel about it anyway.

I also feel that a lot of us look at this purely as profit and as commodity like much of the crypto currency universe and I think Ethereum has the potential to be more than that. Whether or not that potential is fulfilled is another debate. I am really excited about the possibility to incentivize p2p activities - whatever than might be - entirely up to the imagination of the independent developer who will built an application to leverage this platform. Since the advent of internet p2p has been a purely altruistic endevour which as has been pointed out serves the needs of the mainstream very well. Here is an opportunity and an incentive to do something beyond the mainstream in a truly decentralized fashion, a platform to leverage something other than a financial instrument. Its a really remarkable thought and if it is realized (lots of ifs and buts at this stage) it represents the next evolution of internet. Given such a lofty aim I am not sure how I can measure the worth the currency that will play an instrumental part of it. Maybe I am being too optimistic but I rather see this project succeed in its aims notwithstanding its inflationary tendencies and its effects on my investments. That's why I must invest only as much as I am prepared to risk and not a single satoshi more. Should you decide to invest I will give you the same advice.

I own some Mastercoin, Angel Protoshares and other cryptos and I wanted to get into this Ethereum also. If you check my posting history you'll see I was among the very first to learn about this venture during a forum spat between Invictus and Etherum founder, when project wasn't yet announced.

This financing model is ripping off people by putting huge chunk of risk on their back while taking none themselves. About the latter, one may ask how honest are these people involved if this issuance is so rip off like? Can you trust them delivering going further when they seem to care more about getting settled for life and becoming millionaires rather than other consideration?

You are mixing two different things here
 
Firstly with regards to dilution and speculation, its a valid concern but if you want to purely speculate then in the medium term you have time. Day 1 after the IPO only X is available, Day 2 is X + 0.4/365 * X (for the sake of simplicity) and a large portion of inflation happens on Day 366 when X + 0.4X + 30% of 0.5X is in circulation and available - assuming there are no hoarders and no long term view investors. You have at the very least months before you decide your exit strategy if you are in it only for speculation.

Secondly, no one ever said it is not a risk. I do not understand you plugging for Mastercoin at every given opportunity, its smacks of bias. Worse is to call this a model designed to rip off people. If you don't agree with the model that's perfectly fine, but to question the honesty of people associated with this project based on your dislike of issuance model without anything concrete is not cool.

Point is fresh currency keeps coming to the market by mining, devaluing the stake of existing holders and we're also talking pre-mine here, which excludes the community. So basically people buy into this IPO based on "proof of stake" and then devaluation comes with "proof of work". Cleverly designed model to rip off people.

People are also taking a huge chance of them delivering on some complicated Turing when coins like Mastercoin are already testing their distributed exchange, days away from launch. People are also taking the risk of giving up 1st mover advantage and we know what 1st mover advantage meant for Bitcoin. You don't see alt coin atms being installed everywhere in the world for example. Bitcoin is the superstar due to 1st mover advantage. Very often it's not a question of who has best tech but a question of adoption. This is why HD DVD lost the fight with Blueray, for eg, even though they've had better specs.

The fact that he might get it cheaper on the exchange than mining is actually pure speculation on your part. After having spent 1/1000 for an ether why would I want to sell it for lower.

Sorry but this is totally BS claim. Someone joining the network will mine hard for some currency he might buy cheaper from some exchange as he won't be able to compete with big corporate miners. The mining model means inflation and devaluation, which lowers potential profits for currency holders. It also creates unnecessary energy consumption which is also not required.

He is talking about first mover advantage which is a valid concern. With mining ethers especially on the algo they are claiming a CPU miner will still be able to get something even if he is late in adopting the platform and currency. This gives it a true decentralized (non-concentrated) advantage something neither Mastercoin nor Nxt can claim. What better way for a platform/currency to succeed than to be truly distributed. It's a long term view which may not match the view of speculative investment.

You mean if you buy something from someone in a voluntary exchange you're a slave? Really?

Surely if we are raising X ether in IPO the starting mining difficulty will correspondingly have to be adjusted. Whatever the number of hashes your rig produce, if you can mine the basic minimum of 1000 ether faster than you can scrypt mine alt-coins worth 1 BTC this will be unfair to IPO investors. I don't think I have read anything about this but I also think that mining 1000-2000 ethers will not be that quick. If that happens than ether will fall below its starting price because of P&D tactics. The only logical conclusion the project developers will not be unfair to the IPO investors (with their 0.5X vested interest) ergo inflation created by mining will not have as large an impact as we think.

In that case, Mastercoin is an apt name because anyone who enters the market after someone else is a slave to the person before them. Inflation, if understood and used correctly, is important because it can serve new generations who don't want to be slaves.

Yeah, they want to raise a fat chunk in initial IPO followed by crap dilution afterwards and inflation.

Mining = inflation

There's no inflation or dilution in Mastercoin for example. They've released a fixed number and that's it. No more pumping into the market. Also, the fat % allocated to themselves is really shameful. Taking 0% of the risk while being this shamefully greedy is also lame.

I think a more accurate statement is that they've been overwhelmed. They did not expect to receive this much attention prior to the fundraiser. They need to get proper infrastructure in place and get people to engage the community. That's my take. It's not an easy task.

There's no doubt this is what most of the community seem to think on here. I like the issuance model too. However, I do think gutshot5820 finally articulates important points on the idea of risk. It's great to empower everyone and allow all of us to get a piece of the pie, but people who contribute early are asked to carry significantly greater risk than those who get in on the project when it's been built and is ready.

I think the bigger issue is that people feel they don't get enough in return for the risk they have to carry, which is turning people off and is echoed throughout the thread, given that the perception is 1000-2000 Ether isn't that much per Bitcoin if coupled with dilution and very little risk for the creators. Whether this is an accurate perception, I don't know.

Because it would have been a failure given this cold negative reception. Dev's statement says something else about mining algo or some BS like that but it's nonsense. That wasn't the real reason, just some announcement to save face.

why IPO cancel?