Topic: [ANN] Freicoin: demurrage crypto-currency from the Occupy movement (crowdfund) - page 9. (Read 67963 times)

The below post sums up my feelings pretty well

If they were NASA engineers they would have had enough money to make this into something. Digital monetarism is no good

Sorry if I sound/sounded angry!

That's probably a good enough approximation for blocks before 161280, but after 161280 the money supply is a constant 10^8 as jtimon said.

The graph is in units referred to as "satoshis" because this is what Bitcoin uses internally. If you divide 10^16 by 10^8, you get 10^8 coins, or 100,000,000.

Am I looking at that chart right? 10^16 is a heck of lot more than 100 million coins.

Well, that doesn't account for demurrage, which occurs every block from the beginning.
After 161280 the total supply converges at 100 MM, but with lost wallets you cannot be sure that is 100 MM at any given time, even though you know all lost wallets will be recycled.
Before 161280 the total supply is more complicated, it's this chart: http://freico.in/static/images/how/coins_in_distribution.png
But sorry I don't have the formula.

Thanks, this works great.

The total supply can be calculated with:

before 161280: -0.000986912724567928 * blocks * (blocks + 1) / 2 + blocks * (254.53671561 + 496.03174604)

EDIT: This doesn't factor in the demurrage.

Has there been discussion about changing the retarget algo?  with the increase in hashrate, will frc get strangled with a high diff and little hashrate again?

Marxisms 'surplus value' is not interest by any stretch.  The closest approximation we would have is 'net productivity' as Marx says it is the net value a worker creates above what is needed to support the worker.  Marx then believes the capitalist steals this by oppressive manipulation of the workplace, thuggery and other unsophisticated technicians not in any way related to the nature of money.

Gesell sees through this fog and identifies hard money as the source of interest with interest defined in terms of being able to RENT, and interest then causes the manifest ill effects like unemployment, the waste of capitol in the business cycle etc etc.

As for 'real' socialism, I see no reason it would actually need to utilize any such labor theory.  Socialism has always been understood to mean 'control of the workplace and means of production by the workers', now how the workers exercise that control is wide open and in no way need it conform to some blatantly erroneous theory.

Freiland was not socialized land, rather that was merely one avenue to implementation. The American Georgism is is a libertarian realization of Freiland, or at least Freiland-compatible.

EDIT: This was true of Gesell's work in general. He was a man of his times and as such an avowed statist. He though demurrage currency necessarily required a state monopoly on money. He also thought that his land-tax mechanism would have to be implemented through state ownership. Our opinion is that state monopoly is only one implementation pathway. In the case of Freigeld, p2p currency provides another more libertarian option. I personally remain optimistic that Freiland could be implemented with some sort of p2p auction to discover undeveloped value.

Marx didn't endorse the labor theory of value either. That's a common misinterpretation. Or misunderstanding. Simply googling or wiki-ing will do.  

Though if you want true socialism or communism, i.e. public and democratic control of production, you'd measure effort in a way that might resemble this theory. It doesn't mean it's wrong historically, it's just a different economic concept that, according to the Marxian utopists, never really was tried in practice (maybe the Spanish Anarchism came close).

And he did criticize "interest" all the time. He called it "Mehrwert" (surplus value). (He didn't differentiate it, and he was right with that, because there should be no real difference between interest and dividends, today things are even more fucked up.) In fact that's what Marxism is all about.

(I don't endorse Marx, but it's not helpful to build upon false criticism).

btw and more on-topic again, Gesell's Freiland is socialism, and my point of view is still that this is the big elephant in the room of his theories. If demurrage causes savers to flee into hard assets, they'll create bubbles. The same landgrabbing would happen that happens today with inflation. Gesell acknowledged that and called for "Freiland" (public/socialized land). But obviously, this will not be enough, you'd have to socialize everything then, the whole stock market, and finally the whole production. That's why Freiwirtschaft is not "ein dritter Weg", a third way (besides capitalism and communism), but rather an unstable compromise, imho.

Gesell is considered anti-marxist in that he rejects Marxist labor-theory of value, and argues that Marx has made massive error in ignoring the nature of money and interest.  Now history has in my opinion clearly disproved labor-theory of value and abrogating free markets reduce productivity too much, and capitalism has been shown to have some serious flaws which Gesells theory explains very well.

Install mpfr.

build problems Linux (Ubuntu 12.04)
any hints?
TIA

Lets see what future this coin has
I think it'll be a big coin one day!

So what? You'll never satisfy the extremists. Fair home loans, no inflation, zero bailouts. The Marxist philosopher-kings can't even pry my money out of my cold dead hands - all redistribution of wealth in Freicoin is 100% optional. Sure beats the hell out of the Occcu!

doesn't matter, leftish idealists and Marxists would call it "verkürzte Kapitalismuskritik", that would translate to something like (dangerously) reduced critique of capitalism.

If a freiconomy can remove interest on mortgages, then this surely will avail much of the financial sorrows of the common Occupyer. Political labeling of wether to call the theory left or right is not relevant when you narrow it down to that.

Freicoin can now be traded on Vircurex.com

funny thing is, Freicoin isn't much compatible to the Occupy-crowd.

Silvio Gesell and his Freiwirtschaft theories are usually considered rather reactionary and bourgeois-y by the German left and are rather located as something from the political spectrum towards the right.

Not sure if it is bannable , but specifics would be nice.  Why do you dislike it?